Can Mathematical Models Explain Scenes from The Day the Earth Stood Still?

[sbrothy]

The Andromeda Strain, although a little silly (I think the proper term is "zeerusted") is still one of my favorites.

EDIT:
Just noticed that Daniel H. Wilson ( The author of Robopocalypse) wrote a sequel 50 years after the original. I'm a big fan of Daniel H. Wilson so I'm for sure gonna give that one a try.

 

[Hornbein]

When I was maybe ten I saw on television a movie about enormous ants taking over the world. Scared the hell out of me. It might have been called Them.

 

[pinball1970]

When I was maybe ten I saw on television a movie about enormous ants taking over the world. Scared the hell out of me. It might have been called Them.

Yeah. Scared me too. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Them!

 

[difalcojr]

Big bugs are pretty scary, glad I missed that one.
Just read "Farewell to the Master" by Harry Bates. As good as the movie, different, probably better, great ending. I had Klaatu and Gnut mixed up.
Also, read Jerome Bixby's "It's a Good Life." Scariest short story I've ever read!

 

[PeroK]

When I was maybe ten I saw on television a movie about enormous ants taking over the world. Scared the hell out of me. It might have been called Them.

That might have been the first sci-fi film I ever saw.

"How did he die, doc?"

"Any one of five ways. His skull was fractured, his chest was crushed, his neck and back were broken, and he had enough formic acid in him to kill 20 men!"

 

[pinball1970]

The remake of the original was pretty good too (The day the Earth stood still) John Cleese was the main scientist!

 

[Algr]

The remake of the original was pretty good too (The day the Earth stood still) John Cleese was the main scientist!

I had an odd discussion about this film in another forum. I observed that what the alien does at the end of the film would have killed most of humanity by making food production and distribution impossible. In other words, the writers didn't understand the consequences of the alien's "kindness". . Another member replied that he thought that this proved that all real-world environmentalism was bunk. I tried to explain to him that climate scientists and film writers are not the same people, and he just wasn't buying it.
----
The blackboard scene with John Cleese was awesome though.

 

[DaveC426913]

The Andromeda Strain, although a little silly (I think the proper term is "zeerusted") is still one of my favorites.

Never heard the term zeerusted before. Is it synonymous with retro-futuristic? Or are they similar-yet-distinct?

Sounds like retro-future is intentionally-dated (like Brazil) - or at least self-aware - whereas zeerust is unintentionally dated.

 

[DaveC426913]

would have killed most of humanity by making food production and distribution impossible. In other words, the writers didn't understand the consequences of the alien's "kindness". .

Depending on how specific the term 'electronics', we* managed up until the middle of the 20th century. Even if a broad term, we** managed up until the middle of the 19th century.

*~2.5 billion of us
**~1.2 billion of us

They did say there would be a "cost"; and it would take a while to reach a new equilibrium.

It's a matter of the rate of die-off from starvation versus not having to completely re-invent the agricultural and distributional wheel. (As just one example, we still have the vast network of roads covering every square kilometre, and sea routes, including Panama and Suez Canals.)

 

[Algr]

When the population of Earth was 1.2 billion, probably more then 1 billion of them had practical real world experience in farming without electricity, electric water pumps, or chemical fertilizers. A similar number of people knew how to manage and care for horses, and had access to them.

Communication back then was based on an efficiently designed mail system that had evolved with centuries of experience. If you delivered mail, you understood horses and wagons well. In the alien's blackout, it would take years for some places to learn why the lights had gone out, and who, if anyone, was still president.

The roads would work for walking and bicycles, but canals would need electricity to open and close their gates, and to coordinate. And all of them would be clogged with beached and unpowerable ships, aka Evergiven.

And of course within days, the cities would all be on fire from everyone lighting candles and trying to heat skyscrapers with improvised wood burning stoves. (Since the flashlights, emergency lighting and radios don't work, this is much worse than a blackout.)

And of course, everything above assumes that everyone is acting rationally to solve the problems and re-establish a new working economy. As opposed to Mad Max larping, which is what more people think they know how to do.

Humanity would survive, but the die off would be apocalyptic, with perhaps 100 million people left alive before things stabilize and the population begins to recover. That population would be quite unequally distributed, with the least developed cultures fairing best.

 

[sbrothy]

Never heard the term zeerusted before. Is it synonymous with retro-futuristic? Or are they similar-yet-distinct?

Sounds like retro-future is intentionally-dated (like Brazil) - or at least self-aware - whereas zeerust is unintentionally dated.

Retro-futuristic is very apt. And yes, unintentionally.

TV-tropes on "zeerust".

 

[DaveC426913]

TV-tropes on "zeerust".

Thanks. (he said facetiously).

TV Tropes is my Achilles Heel.
So there's two hours I wasn't doing anything useful...

 

[sbrothy]

Thanks. (he said facetiously).

TV Tropes is my Achilles Heel.
So there's two hours I wasn't doing anything useful...

yeh. A tvtropes walk can be more insidious than a wiki ditto, but the time spent is much the same. :)

 

[sbrothy]

Playing Scrabble you'd know that the most frequent letters are A, I, N, T.

Thus, good starting points are words like SAINT, AUDIO, AUREI etc....

Exclude as many vowels as possible for staters.

 

[difalcojr]

So, in the original 1940 Harry Bates short story, the robot was the same height as in the movie, but in an exact anatomical shape of a human being, muscular. Made of the same green metal as the spaceship. Impenetrable.

Is this a physics/metallurgy/materials sci. question of what would be the color of a theoretical, impenetrable solid such as an alien robot and spaceship?

Or would such a metal have a distinctive color at all? Is this theoretically known?

Or is this just very good science fiction writing?

 

[DaveC426913]

Is this a physics/metallurgy/materials sci. question of what would be the color of a theoretical, impenetrable solid such as an alien robot and spaceship?

It's ... made of handwavium. It will be whatever colour the art director thinks will look right.

Or would such a metal have a distinctive color at all? Is this theoretically known?

No. The makeup of robot and spaceship is straight up fantasy.

Or is this just very good science fiction writing?

It's not good or bad. It's a trope that some parts of a science fiction story are straight up 'things humankind was not meant to know'. Also known as 'not important to the plot'.

What the SFX artist was using to portray the alienness of the objects was the material's smooth, curved seamlessness. Something difficult to achieve in armour in the 50s.There is no way to predict or even guess what such a material might actually look like.

 

[difalcojr]

Well, I thought there may be a little more known to it than that.

Tektites are thought to be from outer space, and they are green.

When I worked in a tungsten mine, one area had the scheelite ore in a green skarn. The rock was so hard that the miners were dulling the carbide bits on their drill steel very quickly. They were always upset they couldn't make any advance in the drift to get any extra bonus pay. Tungsten is a very hard metal and has a very high heat capacity. When a UV light is put on a pile of scheelite at about 1-2% ore grade, it fluoresces bright yellow. Looks like a big pile of gold! Otherwise, it is clear, colorless.

 

[Algr]

Is this a physics/metallurgy/materials sci. question of what would be the color of a theoretical, impenetrable solid such as an alien robot and spaceship?

If the metal is impenetrable, then photons would all bounce off of it. So it would be white, or silvered like a mirror. I have a degree in handwavium!

 

[difalcojr]

Evidently.
So, now I should have to ask the Mentor of this forum this question? Because this is a SF and Media Fantasy forum in an otherwise, non-fictional PF setting, are the laws of physics to be discussed herein, are they limited to real or conjectured physics, or can they be also fictional physics like in the movies and books that they are part of?

 

[difalcojr]

Hmm, looks like Gnut is silent and stationary again on this question too.

Well, then, I'll have to accept that a degree in handwavium is valid in this SF forum, and I won't be so critical from now on of any "scientific" solutions given. Writer's choice as was stated. Was that a PhD you received (Piled high and Deep)? Congratulations, anyway. Do they give a wand instead of a degree at graduation ceremony? Online course?

Heinlein, Clarke, Asimov, etc. were engineers and got their SF as close to conjectered, futuristic, story configuations as they could. More realistic that way. The green surface question is a valid one. As I said, the hardest rock in that hard rock mine was green. No one wanted to work in that area. No money to be made there.

The question should then be properly posted in one of the science forums, not in a SF one, and well, maybe later, perhaps. Back to the movies.

 

[difalcojr]

No. The makeup of robot and spaceship is straight up fantasy.

EMERGENCY ALERT: Gnut is missing! Gone from the spaceship.

He was seen on the edge of town where he ran into the jolly Green Giant, and they got into it. Guess who's now out in the cornfield! Ho, ho, ho.

And Gnut was last seen near the cornfield talking with Anthony!!!

 

[DaveC426913]

Evidently.
So, now I should have to ask the Mentor of this forum this question? Because this is a SF and Media Fantasy forum in an otherwise, non-fictional PF setting, are the laws of physics to be discussed herein, are they limited to real or conjectured physics, or can they be also fictional physics like in the movies and books that they are part of?

Apologies. I did not mean to suggest you can't or shouldn't discuss it.

Its just that, as I see it, there are no laws of physics employed or even implied in the film's technology.

To me, it would be kind of like watching Gandalf's fireworks in the Shire and asking what alchemy ingredients he might have used to make the colours. It's its own discussion really - divorced from the LotR source material.

Just my view though. Carry on.

 

[difalcojr]

No apologies needed. I understand your point. I just had thought I would get a state-of-science update on the materials science knowledge of surface hardness on spacecraft, from a physicist who also loves SF. You all are right, though, and I agree, this is a SF and fantasy media forum. Stick to it. I was in the wrong forum, sorry. I'll stick to discussing movies.

Couple last things, though: Hogwarts now has Gandalf's ingredients lists, teaches them in classes there.
And Gnut is now on the SFBI's most wanted list. His mug shot is around this forum too, somewhere, in case anyone wants to try to get the reward money. Anthony liked him!!

 

[difalcojr]

I always thought that the original story would have worked well as a The Twilight Zone episode.

All I knew was the original movie, but I've now read the Harry Bates "Farewell to the Master", and I reread your post and agree with you. Perfect Twilight Zone material. The ending and Gnut just keep me thinking of the implications of that story. Classic SF!!
Also, just read Jerome Bixby's "It's a Good Life" on your recommendation. Anthony! Scariest SF I've ever read! Poor Billy Mumy the child actor. Probably forced to play Anthony in the "Twilight Zone," and then "Lost in Space" with that neurotic doctor and clunky robot for so long. Have to feel sorry for him.

 

[difalcojr]

That might have been the first sci-fi film I ever saw.

"How did he die, doc?"

"Any one of five ways. His skull was fractured, his chest was crushed, his neck and back were broken, and he had enough formic acid in him to kill 20 men!"

"Them" was on free TV last night! I heard those lines you quoted exact! Fast-paced dialogue, good script and acting, tense throughout. Would've scared me too back when if I'd seen it. It would have been even scarier if Ray Harryhausen had animated the giant ants to move faster and be more realistic.

Lot of actors in it too when they were young. James Whitmore. Fess Parker, went from there to Wyoming, I think, to fight big bears as "Daniel Boone". James Arness, FBI man in the movie, moved up to Dodge City and became federal Marshall Dillon in "Gunsmoke". Think he stayed there so long because he was sweet on Miss Kitty.

 

[renormalize]

Lot of actors in it too when they were young. James Whitmore. Fess Parker, went from there to Wyoming, I think, to fight big bears as "Daniel Boone". James Arness, FBI man in the movie, moved up to Dodge City and became federal Marshall Dillon in "Gunsmoke". Think he stayed there so long because he was sweet on Miss Kitty.

Don't forget a young Leonard Nimoy in a bit part as a staff sergeant:

 

[DaveC426913]

Don't forget a young Leonard Nimoy in a bit part as a staff sergeant:

A common misattribution. That's actually Spock, in a scene that got cut out of "Tomorrow is Yesterday".

 

[difalcojr]

Before he was in Vulcan, I guess. Look at whom he had to report to next: the future Federation Starship Captain himself. How did he get to be captain after being in a mental institution in the Twilight Zone?!

 

[difalcojr]

Here's Gort and Robby the Robot together. Buddies.



Patricia Neal telling Gort what to do in the 1951 movie. Gnut in the short story, Gort in the movie, Klaatu's the man. I'll get it right. Gort was being nice then.



From the 2008 remake. And Keanu Reeves thought the Matrix was strange! Gort goes wild. Bad Gort.

 

[difalcojr]

Don't forget a young Leonard Nimoy in a bit part as a staff sergeant:
View attachment 333229

From a young staff sergeant to a starfleet commander and science officer. He ended up a philantropist too, and left a legacy in the new Nimoy theatre in Los Angeles which just opened. Supposed to have nods to Star Trek throughout. Already booked until next June. Only 200 seats.

https://cap.ucla.edu/ucla-nimoy-theater

https://cap.ucla.edu/calendar

 

[PeroK]

"Them" was on free TV last night! I heard those lines you quoted exact!

They've remained embedded in my memory for nearly 50 years!

 

[pinball1970]

The film on the whole was very good but it did not really scare me as much as a few others. I feel a thread coming on.

 

[gleem]

Get ready for yet another remake of this movie. Chris Pratt has signed on for the leading role of Klaatu.

https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/chris-pratt-day-earth-stood.html

 

[difalcojr]

Hope they stick closer to the original short story, but doubt that this will happen. Green colored, smooth, impervious metal. The original, short story would make an excellent movie, still. With a few modern touches.

 

[difalcojr]

The film on the whole was very good but it did not really scare me as much as a few others. I feel a thread coming on.

Me neither. Not like the others mentioned. Just a little scary. Did get me to thinking of other old, scary SF movies, though, and scary TV episodes, and scary SF short stories, and scary SF books too. Yikes! Lot of good recommendations, links, and funny memories shared here. Educational. Thanks to you and all who've posted.