Can Mathematical Models Explain Scenes from The Day the Earth Stood Still?

[difalcojr]

Free TV showed original Day... last night. Klaatu's closing message to humanity: let AI keep the peace! Trust in AI. Yikes. Gort, sergeant-at-arms, still looked very big and very formidable, too close to very dangerous for me. Sure, just trust AI. Wonder what the message of the remake will be for the future path of humanity?

Also on free TV was the 1986 remake of invaders from Mars. Not as scary as the original. King Kong and Godzilla originals were kinda scary when young. This one, though, the Harryhausen predecessor to Japan's Godzilla by 16 months, was very scary, I thought, when young and small. Realistic looking.

 

[difalcojr]

Wow, I never noticed all the old movie trailers online before. For thread completion then, here's Them that was earlier discussed. The trailer itself is pretty scary, actually. See what trouble nukes make!

 

[pinball1970]

This model diagram is possible when index0/index1=index1/index2=radius2/radius1 for the model's variables. 30 degree wave into a sphere. Reminded me of something out of that old science fiction movie, The Day the Earth Stood Still.
....................................................................................View attachment 330371

It reminds me of this a little bit

 

[difalcojr]

Where is that from?

 

[pinball1970]

Where is that from?

https://science.nasa.gov/resource/pioneer-plaque/

 

[difalcojr]

From above, "The golden plaque was the brainchild of Carl Sagan who wanted any alien civilization who might encounter the craft to know who made it and how to contact them."

Yeah, those look like good directions, all right. Just follow the arrow. Earth moved out way to the side of Saturn. No wonder they can't find us. And what is that? The monolith from 2001: Space Odyssey? And a thin lens and its focus point with two naked folks in front? Waving? Wow, if I was an alien, I'd say these earthians are pretty hokey and immodest too. A golden plaque? On taxpayer money? Give me the golden fleece instead. Sagan was OK though.

 

[pinball1970]

From above, "The golden plaque was the brainchild of Carl Sagan who wanted any alien civilization who might encounter the craft to know who made it and how to contact them."

Yeah, those look like good directions, all right. Just follow the arrow. Earth moved out way to the side of Saturn. No wonder they can't find us. And what is that? The monolith from 2001: Space Odyssey? And a thin lens and its focus point with two naked folks in front? Waving? Wow, if I was an alien, I'd say these earthians are pretty hokey and immodest too. A golden plaque? On taxpayer money? Give me the golden fleece instead. Sagan was OK though.

The guys can help me out here but a lot of images and languages were put on some sort of record. Who we are, what we do and survive as a species.
Also how we use mathematics but almost in a Rosseta stone sort of way so they can relate to how we formalize counting and operations.
Very symbolic so pictures tell the story too. The aliens would need eyes though, of a sort to see it.
I'll post the link I was looking at this afternoon. All the images are listed.

 

[difalcojr]

That sounds good. I will stay serious, then. Would indeed be interesting to see how Sagan symbolized it and scribed it. Back when. What that point source of light or dumbell at the top means.

 

[pinball1970]

That sounds good. I will stay serious, then. Would indeed be interesting to see how Sagan symbolized it and scribed it. Back when. What that point source of light or dumbell at the top means.

The dumb bell is Hydrogen

Here is some explanation https://www.space.com/34223-voyager-golden-record-space-messages-in-pictures.html

 

[Janus]

From above, "The golden plaque was the brainchild of Carl Sagan who wanted any alien civilization who might encounter the craft to know who made it and how to contact them."

Yeah, those look like good directions, all right. Just follow the arrow. Earth moved out way to the side of Saturn. No wonder they can't find us. And what is that? The monolith from 2001: Space Odyssey? And a thin lens and its focus point with two naked folks in front? Waving? Wow, if I was an alien, I'd say these earthians are pretty hokey and immodest too. A golden plaque? On taxpayer money? Give me the golden fleece instead. Sagan was OK though.

The actual directions to find is in the pattern with the radiating lines. It is a "pulsar" map. Each line represetns a pulsar visible from Earth, with it's relative distance indicated by the length of the line. Each line also has a pattern on it that gives the pulse rate of each pulsar. The point being that there would be only one place where pulsars with those pulse rates would be seen in those relative directions and distances. In addition, since pulsars also have a predictable decay rate of their spin, it also give "when" the probe was launched.
Modesty is relative. That being said, there were people that complained about NASA "sending pornography" into space, I mean "What would the neighbors think?"

 

[difalcojr]

Thanks. Well, they sent it anyway.
Pulsars, huh? Sagan was brilliant, brought astronomy to the everyperson at that time. Popularized it, I remember. Wish the recordings and other pics and diagrams of those NASA records were available online for free perusal. Instead of $99. Think I know most all the animal sounds, though, anyway. Remember vaguely they had a hard time admitting rock and roll music. Chuck Berry song is on the record, I think I remember.

 

[gmax137]

Chuck Berry song is on the record, I think I remember.

I wanted them to put the Stones, "20,000 Light Years From Home" on there, but nobody listens to me.

EDIT: Sorry, it is "2000 Light Years..." I always get this wrong, probably too much Jules Verne as a kid...

 

[difalcojr]

Couldn't agree with you more. More appropriate song, 2,000 light years from home. What's an order of magnitude anyway, when you're as far from home as Voyager? Stones should have campaigned for this song:

 

[DaveC426913]

Where is that from?

This is a smack in the face. As if I don't feel old enough already.

 

[difalcojr]

I wanted them to put the Stones, "20,000 Light Years From Home" on there, but nobody listens to me.

EDIT: Sorry, it is "2000 Light Years..." I always get this wrong, probably too much Jules Verne as a kid...

Or The "Beast from 20,000 Fathoms" at the top of the page.

Could any kid could get too much of Jules Verne? Or H.G. Wells? Or, later ones, Asimov, Bradbury, Clarke, Heinlein, Niven, etc? And then so many others newer than these older ones. SF is the most futuristic and one of the most exciting genres of fiction. Fiction that indeed often comes true. You may not have gotten too much of it, possibly, I think.

 

[DaveC426913]

Could any kid could get too much of Jules Verne?

Kid?

I've got his works on my Kobo eReader right now.

 

[Janus]

Thanks. Well, they sent it anyway.
Pulsars, huh? Sagan was brilliant, brought astronomy to the everyperson at that time. Popularized it, I remember. Wish the recordings and other pics and diagrams of those NASA records were available online for free perusal. Instead of $99. Think I know most all the animal sounds, though, anyway. Remember vaguely they had a hard time admitting rock and roll music. Chuck Berry song is on the record, I think I remember.

I have a book, "Murmurs of Earth" copyright 1978, that is about the golden record. It has all the images sent and lists of both the greetings and music sent. It cost me $7.95 at the time. Chuck Berry's "Johnny B. Goode" was included.
The images on the record cover differ from those on the Pioneer plaques shown above:

It still has the pulsar map, and the "dumbbell" ( a representation of a hydrogen molecule), but the rest of the image are instructions on how to play the record, culminating in what the first image should look like if done right.

 

[difalcojr]

It reminds me of this a little bit

View attachment 334203

Was this diagram from the book too? One of the plaques?

 

[Janus]

Was this diagram from the book too? One of the plaques?

This is what was sent with the Pioneer 10 &11 probes launched in 1972-73. Voyager 1 & 2 were launched in 1977

 

[difalcojr]

This is what was sent with the Pioneer 10 &11 probes launched in 1972-73. Voyager 1 & 2 were launched in 1977

Here's the explanation from online. Explanatory. Pulsar map is pretty amazing.

 

[mpresic3]

Not long after the plaque become publically known, a cartoonist made a cartoon of a man-like person from Jupiter talking to a woman-like person from Jupiter, both of them impeccably dressed and the Jupiter man says, "See the Earthmen are just like us, only they don't wear clothes.

 

[pinball1970]

Here's the explanation from online. Explanatory. Pulsar map is pretty amazing.

View attachment 334466

It's a work of art is it not? A nice combination of very significant information and aesthetics.
IMO.

 

[difalcojr]

Agreed. Looked for the funny cartoon online too but couldn't find it. Did find this article about alternate plaque depictions from the LA Times at that time. And Jack Kirby's plaque depiction. Also a work of art.

https://kirbymuseum.org/blogs/effect/2009/08/28/the-mystery-of-the-two-pioneer-plaques/

 

[Janus]

There was also the Arecibo Message:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_message#Arecibo_Answer

Traveling at the speed of light, it has gotten much further than either the Pioneer or Voyager probes. However, seeing as it was aimed at M13, we shouldn't expect an answer back for 50,000 years (give or take a few decades)

 

[gmax137]

There was also the Arecibo Message

Thanks, I do not remember hearing about this. Reading the Wiki description of the message, all I can say is that anyone able to translate/understand the message would likely be considered by the other M31 denizens a crackpot numerologist.

 

[difalcojr]

No, I did not remember, either. Agree with your conjecture.
The Arecibo message is interesting. By Drake again in '74.
https://web.archive.org/web/2008080...ll.edu/releases/Nov99/Arecibo.message.ws.html
Seems silly to me now, though. Aliens had been known to be around long before then, studying us, and probably already knew all that stuff. From the disappearances, abductions and cow murders they're responsible for. The huge radar transmitter seemed the most interesting thing in Arecibo.

And the nutty Arecibo Answer crop circle in 2001.Actually, I did not even know if crop circles were real or fake, but this link shows the excellent UFOoolery by a couple of very clever and talented Englishmen. https://www.livescience.com/26540-crop-circles.html

Here's the Arecibo Answer crop field scene compared to the digital representation:

and a better diagram of the Arecibo message:

"You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time." P.T. Barnum

 

[difalcojr]

This is what was sent with the Pioneer 10 &11 probes launched in 1972-73. Voyager 1 & 2 were launched in 1977

A summary of the messages sent to space, written of, so far. From initial plaque shown by pinball1970.

1972-Pioneer10. 1973-Pioneer11. Both with the first au natural plaque. Then
1974-Arecibo message. Odd music signal from radar transmitter with the message frequency-encoded, I think.
1977-Voyager1 and Voyager2. Now music put on golden record with encrypted instructions on how to play.

Book "Murmurs of Earth" about the Voyager record and other items is available, used, online, 1978 softcover, under $10. Good books hold their value. On order now; you got me curious.

As far as Pioneer10 goes. According to my calculations, and using pinball1970's post#73 diagram above for its trajectory, and using the space scale of this forum page, I have the current location of Pioneer10 as up two posts and very close to the Beast from 20,000 fathoms!

 

[difalcojr]

What are you planning to use it for? spaceship? some kind of weapon?

I did not say before, but I think it is OK now to do so. It is still a science fiction model only.
Never seen before, never made, not in textbooks.

No, not a spaceship, nor was I thinking of a weapon, although the first diagram did remind me of Gort.
The model is an optically "perfect" magnification lens, so it could be weaponized, probably. Hopefully, humans will heed the message soon of Klaatu and Master Gort to stop fighting and killing each other.

It is a very simple model and could have many possibilities as a projection lens. Here's one I was thinking of.
A telescope.

 

[difalcojr]

There was also the Arecibo Message:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_message#Arecibo_Answer

Traveling at the speed of light, it has gotten much further than either the Pioneer or Voyager probes. However, seeing as it was aimed at M13, we shouldn't expect an answer back for 50,000 years (give or take a few decades)

And the LAGEOS plaque in 1974 too. Attached to the LAser GEOdynamic Satellite. Of spherical brass set at a very high, stable orbit. Measuring continental drift for the next 8 million years before its decay date! At about an inch of continental drift per century! An inch! How can they measure that?! Plaque shows continents 8 million years ago, today, and 8 million years hence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAGEOS#Time_capsule

 

[renormalize]

Plaque shows continents 8 million years ago, today, and 8 million years hence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAGEOS#Time_capsule

View attachment 335210

Correction: top map shows continents 268 million years ago.

 

[difalcojr]

Thanks.

 

[difalcojr]

The Voyager Record mounted in its aluminum cover. Evolution of the 9"x12" inscribed Pioneer Plaque.
Now about 5 years later, 1977, it's a 12", gold-plated, copper, phonograph record, recorded at 16 and 2/3 rpm. A double album, in effect, on one disk. About 108 minutes worth or sounds and music and photographs. Similar encrypted cover messages again as explained in a previous post. Also, a cartridge and stylus were included. The record was a "mother" record. Grooves out, I think.

First-ever photograph of moon and earth together taken by Voyager1 !!

 

[difalcojr]

Voyagers' LP Record. From "Murmurs of the Earth", 1978, by Sagan, Drake, Druyan, Ferris, Lomberg, and Sagan. Part 2. Written messages, names, pictures. Lots of trivia. Some things included were:

a short note by Sec. Gen. of U.N., Kurt Waldheim. Longer note from U.S. Pres., Jimmy Carter, with notable ending:
"We hope someday, having solved the problems we face, to join a community of galactic civilizations. This record represents our hope and our determination, and our good will in a vast and awesome universe."

a list of offices and names of 80 U.S. Senators and House Reps (those on NASA appropriations and activities committees).

118 photos, 20 in color. Pulsar map again, math, unit definitions, sun and solar system, biology, anatomy, DNA, lots of human family photos, etc. Like a walk through years of Nat'l Geographic magazines. 3 photos of humans with dogs. Boats, trains, planes, highways, factories, etc, etc, etc. Golden Gate Bridge. No pyramids.
No war, crime, disease, poverty, religion, art, sex, or swearing were allowed on the record, either. The proposed new human male and female, holding hands and pregnant, a modest, nude photo, on p.74, was rejected by NASA. Its exact shape was sent, anyway, in silhouette, and with a model fetus shown.
At least now they were holding hands.

 

[difalcojr]

............................................

 

[pinball1970]

............................................View attachment 336590

There is something simplistically kind of wonderful and also disturbing about that image.

We are Just another species, an animal on this planet reproducing then dying but at its basic level should we be really asking for more than that?

Given the gargantuan odds that we are here at all?

Putting my hippy hat on, we could learn a lot from that image, if we can be the best we can be, that is human part we should be happy to showcase to another civilization.