COVID-19 Coronavirus Containment Efforts

[jasonRF]

The Boston Pops on TV is mostly a highlights reel of past performances - the sing-alongs are from the past 3 years I believe. According to the Boston Globe, there are no public fireworks displays in the state this month. I live in Massachusetts, and of course the private fireworks have been nonstop around my house since sunset. Usually they go until midnight or so, even though they are illegal and all of the programmable signs on the freeway have been warning of jail time and fines for at least a week now. It is part of the charm of living here.

EDIT: added a few things below. Note that most folks around here take the virus pretty seriously; in our county we are around 120 deaths per 100,000 population. Many folks, including myself, know someone who has died from this disease. Anyway, from bostonpopsjuly4th.org:

THIS YEAR’S BOSTON POPS FIREWORKS SPECTACULAR—A BOSTON POPS SALUTE TO OUR HEROES—WILL BE AVAILABLE ONLY ON TELEVISION, RADIO, AND DIGITAL MEDIA; A LIVE PERFORMANCE, INCLUDING FIREWORKS, ON THE CHARLES RIVER ESPLANADE WILL NOT TAKE PLACE, DUE TO PUBLIC HEALTH CONCERNS RELATED TO THE SPREAD OF COVID-19

 

[Swamp Thing]

Anyone else suffering from lack of motivation during this thing? I've been cooped up in my room for months now, and I lost focus a long time ago. I don't know how I can live a productive life anymore.

But what's the point of living a productive life?

 

[Zap]

But what's the point of living a productive life?

Question to that is easy -> to reproduce and provide for your offspring

India is a country interesting to look at. We can see a steady almost exponential looking curve for their running sum of total cases per day. It has not slowed down yet.

 

[Rive]

Brazil is approximately like United States in population. Brazil has been pretending like the virus does not exist this entire time, and still their numbers are not nearly as bad as ours.

I wonder if that still works with excess death statistics instead of official reports.

 

[mfb]

I wonder if that still works with excess death statistics instead of official reports.

It doesn't even work with the official numbers, as I calculated here.

 

[bhobba]

Oxford vaccine latest:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/he...ord-university-is-leading-in-the-vaccine-race

Should it actually work (and evidently being safe and at least 50% effective is the hurdle) it is truly amazing how quickly it will be produced (production has started already so it will be available immediately it is shown to work):

'The vaccine is grown inside cells that are cultured in vats called bioreactors. Production starts small, at 200 litres. When AstraZeneca is happy with what it produces in the smallest bioreactor it will scale up production. Four bioreactors of 2000 litres can produce a billion doses in two months. Although AstraZeneca is not a vaccine company, the processes for producing a vaccine are similar to those it uses for its biotechnology products.'

I know it is aiming to have 2 billion doses ready to go when approved by end September, with distribution in October, although some places, depending on how bad the disease is controlled (eg Australia) may wait until further trials are completed, and early 2021 looks a more likely date for them. This is an amazing result, a triumph of our science and technology on par with the Moon Landing and Manhattan Project. Is this the spark that will ignite the passion for STEM in our young?

2 Billion is a lot - but Bill Gates thinks we will need 7 billion and, as mentioned before, is determined to ensure we will have it:
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/...accines-to-fight-coronavirus-2020-4?r=US&IR=T

As he says manufacturing 7 vaccines in parallel with stage 3 trials will cost him Billions, but in economic terms alone, not even considering lives saved, will save the world trillions.

Thanks
Bill

 

[kadiot]

I had a swab done to test for COVID-19 due to shortness of breath because my blood pressure rises after eating crispy pork. The result will be communicated to me within 24 hours (if positive) OR within 72 hours (if negative). Can a Vicks Vaporub affect sensitivity, specificity of test results? I used Vicks VapoRub to my nose few minutes before going to the ER for certain tests, including COVID-19 test.

 

[atyy]

I had a swab done to test for COVID-19 due to shortness of breath because my blood pressure rises after eating crispy pork. The result will be communicated to me within 24 hours (if positive) OR within 72 hours (if negative). Can a Vicks Vaporub affect sensitivity, specificity of test results? I used Vicks VapoRub to my nose few minutes before going to the ER for certain tests, including COVID-19 test.

It shouldn't affect the test results, assuming its a nasal swab and PCR test. If you just breathed the vapor, it won't affect the results. If you applied the ointment, I imagine it could affect the swabbing - but the typical nasal swab is taken from a region far back enough that you cannot reach it by yourself.

 

[Vanadium 50]

cells that are cultured in vats

I read that as "cells that are cultured in bats" and thought "isn't that how this all started?"

 

[Vanadium 50]

hould it actually work (and evidently being safe and at least 50% effective is the hurdle)

"Safe" is not so simple. There was the French trial of BIA 10-2474 which killed a trial subject and left a number of others brain damaged. That's out of 90 given the drug. Bial, the company producing the drug, obviously felt that it was safe enough for trials. Equally obviously, it wasn't.

How many lives will this vaccine save. 10⁵ maybe? Maybe even a few 10⁵? And you need a few 10⁹ doses? So you need a serious adverse reaction rate of 10^-4 or better, which means you need trials with ~10⁵ people. That's a lot. It would be the largest clinical trial by far - approaching the totality of all clinical trials.

 

[mfb]

How many lives will this vaccine save.

Keeping people somewhere between a difficult economic situation and a complete lockdown isn't sustainable forever, and it doesn't look like we can eradicate it without a vaccine. Some countries might be able to if they close all their borders, but that isn't a good long-term plan either. If most people get the disease we are looking at over 10⁷ deaths unless treatment improves significantly.
The Oxford vaccine candidate has a study in Brazil with 5000 people, a study in the UK with 4000 (planned: 10,000 more), and a study in South Africa where I don't find the number of participants - it will find 10^-3 risks.

I would be surprised if all vaccine candidates fail horribly in phase 3 studies. We probably don't have the decision vaccine or not, we have the decision when to vaccinate how many. Do we start vaccinating everyone we can as soon as the phase 3 trials concluded and doses are available? Do we make even larger follow-up studies? Waiting will kill people, but we get better estimates of the risks the vaccines have. Is that worth the additional deaths?

Currently we have about 5000 confirmed deaths per day, and who knows how many more that don't make it into the statistics. If that number stays constant: Can you slow down the pandemic notably if you vaccinate 5 million healthcare workers and other high-risk people in the countries that are most affected? Not only do we know it won't kill as many as the disease (assuming the phase 3 studies are successful for some candidate): It will also make us sensitive to 10^-4 and maybe even 10^-5 risks.

I expect to see regional variations to the response. Countries that are most affected will be more likely to recommend vaccinations, while countries with a very low number of cases might wait a bit longer. Similarly, in these countries people with a higher risk are more likely to get vaccinated early.

We won't have any long-term study for a long time, obviously. That's a risk we have to take if we don't want this pandemic to go on for much longer.

 

[bhobba]

That's a lot. It would be the largest clinical trial by far - approaching the totality of all clinical trials.

Yes - I do not think we have ever tried to vaccinate everyone. Even a small adverse reaction rate will lead to a lot with whatever it is. But is it a lot better than the pandemic?

Thanks
Bill

 

[phinds]

Yes - I do not think we have ever tried to vaccinate everyone.

Nor will we this time, at least in the USA. Well, we might TRY, but we won't come anywhere near close to succeeding. The problem with anti-vaxers is that since they have arrived at their decision via false data and/or illogical thinking, you can't reason with them so nothing short of a government mandate, which isn't going to happen in the USA at least, will get them to get vaccinated.

This is NOT a trivial subset of the population in the USA. Something like 30% depending on what report you read.

 

[Vanadium 50]

But is it a lot better than the pandemic?

BIA 10-2474 would kill 80 million people, leave 80 million others as vegetables, and cause permanent brain damage in 240 million others. And we thought that was safe.

I don't see how we will test enough people to ensure safety over billions of doses. Well, actually I know exactly how we will do it - we'll test it on the poor. I just don't like that answer.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

Yes - I do not think we have ever tried to vaccinate everyone.

There are some diseases for which we try to vaccinate nearly everyone. For example, close to half of all adults in the US get annual flu vaccines, and the number could be as high as 80% of all children in certain states (MA has the highest rate).

Of course, we have much more experience with influenza vaccines, so the safety profile is much more known that a Coronavirus vaccine; thus, there is good reason to be concerned about potential safety for a COVID-19 vaccine. Even efforts to rush development of pandemic flu vaccines have caused problems in the past. With political pressure to develop a vaccine, it will definitely be important to ensure that the vaccine is not rushed to the public without sufficient safety and efficacy testing.

BIA 10-2474 would kill 80 million people, leave 80 million others as vegetables, and cause permanent brain damage in 240 million others. And we thought that was safe.

I don't see how we will test enough people to ensure safety over billions of doses. Well, actually I know exactly how we will do it - we'll test it on the poor. I just don't like that answer.

There is a big difference between an untested drug targeting a new enzyme in the brain, and a vaccine (which we have much more experience developing, testing and evaluating), and but your general point about needing fairly wide-scale testing is very valid. However, there is also a difference between the confidence needed to say something is safe enough to test in phase I trials (especially, when you only consider one outlier case) versus the confidence in the safety of a treatment after it has passed phase III trials. We do know of fairly serious side effects for vaccines (e.g. Guillain-Barré syndrome), so we do have a good idea of the adverse events we should be monitoring. Of course, some of the vaccine candidates are based on new technologies (e.g. genetic vaccines or adenovirus-based vaccines), which could come with unknown risks.

 

[bob012345]

Now Bloomberg television is showing the Boston Pops 4 July celebration. Indoors with people without masks singing loudly standing next to others on and off stage. This I cannot fathom.

It looks like there was no real danger. They made it look good.

A Boston Pops Salute to Our Heroes celebrates the everyday heroes among us through music, shouts outs, and a pre-recorded fireworks display.

The program will feature previous musical performances from recent years including Andy Grammer, Leslie Odom Jr., Rhiannon Giddens, Brian Stokes Mitchell, Arlo Guthrie, and more. Rita Moreno and Amanda Gorman contribute moving narration and poetry accompanied by the masterful Boston Pops. The three-hour show also includes several newly-created recorded virtual performance pieces by Boston Symphony and Boston Pops players as well as the Middlesex Country Volunteer Fifes and Drums. Many friends of the Boston Pops also share special video messages to commemorate our nation’s birthday. Leading the celebrations is Boston Pops conductor Keith Lockhart joined by Bloomberg’s Kim Carrigan, Janet Wu, and Joe Shortsleeve.

 

[bhobba]

When I said everyone, I meant everyone in the world - not just the US or Aus. But that just makes many of issues raised worse. Stringent phase 3 safety criteria will be used I am sure, but many of these vaccines use new technology so nobody really knows long term consequences. I fear countries where it is out of control will decide to use it first - a lot of them poor - in fact CEPI wants to ensure it is freely available especially to those poor countries. Countries like Australia will probably wait because we mostly have it well under control - there is the second wave in Victoria - but that is likely to be contained in Victoria. For those that do not know the story of how the second wave occurred it has been traced back to - get this - the security guards were, how to put it, not trained that well, doing things like having sex with those quranteened .

Thanks
Bill

 

[Astronuc]

Four new insights about the coronavirus. Interview with Donald G. McNeil Jr., a science and health reporter for The New York Times.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/06/podcasts/the-daily/coronavirus-science-indoor-infection.html

1) It not only attacks lung, but it attacks the blood vessels, which are found throughout the body. It binds with the walls of the blood system and in some cases, particularly in capillaries, it causes clots, thus starving an organ or extremities of blood flow, hence oxygen.

Endothelial cell infection and endotheliitis in COVID-19
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30937-5/fulltext

2) By mutation, it may become more transmissible, but less deadly. That remains to be seen. It may be mutating every two weeks. The is no consensus on the deadliness or the degree of transmissibility of the mutated virus.

 

[kadiot]

2) By mutation, it may become more transmissible, but less deadly. That remains to be seen. It may be mutating every two weeks. The is no consensus on the deadliness or the degree of transmissibility of the mutated virus.

Yes - The D614G mutation makes the virus more infectious. There is NO evidence it makes it more deadly or virulent. However, it can spread faster and overwhelm our healthcare system if we don't double our control efforts and so it can lead to a higher number of overall deaths if we do not properly manage the number of infections.

 

[morrobay]

The D614G mutation: Replacing aspartic acid with glycine:
https://www.scripps.edu/news-and-ev...611-choe-farzan-sars-cov-2-spike-protein.html
What a difference an amino acid made. And for the benefit for some in this general discussion: One of the redundant (4^3) base codons for Aspartic acid (D) is GAT. And one of the codons for Glycine (G) is GGT. So a mutation with adenine replaced by guanine at amino acid position 614 in the the spike protein results in the amino acid Glycine displacing Aspartic acid.

 

[bhobba]

For those that do not know the story of how the second wave occurred it has been traced back to - get this - the security guards were, how to put it, not trained that well, doing things like having sex with those quranteened .

It's now exploding exponentially. The whole of Victoria is now quarantined and likely to be in lockdown soon. But get this - something like 1/3 of people are now refusing to be tested. Legally they can't be forced to be tested, but we never had this problem before - it was the exact opposite - they were all keen to be tested. Our PM is going to take action - refuse testing and there will be a whopping fine and you will be quarantined in a Hotel at your own expense until you are tested. This is totally un-Australian. We are a society founded on mateship and the ethos of the battler. Something has gone terribly wrong.

Not that the government is lily white. They locked down some high rise apartments that testing showed was a source of infection. But didn't immediately put procedures in place to ensure they had food, medicines etc. Australians, those still guided by mateship anyway, immediately rushed in, and at their own expense tried to get urgent supplies to the people locked down, but were prevented by the police. Evidently a large group of nurses, social workers etc has now been deployed to ensure they get what is needed. But surely it could have happened sooner.

Added Later:

For those interested the following story has been unlocked so anyone can view it:
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/coronavirus/residents-in-highrise-lockdown-furious-at-prisonlike-conditions/news-story/cfcfe695fb103badf6161b9da813a21a

Thanks
Bill

 

[Vanadium 50]

Whats' interesting is there was also a "mini-peak" in May: 150 cases, zero fatalities.

 

[bob012345]

When I said everyone, I meant everyone in the world - not just the US or Aus. But that just makes many of issues raised worse. Stringent phase 3 safety criteria will be used I am sure, but many of these vaccines use new technology so nobody really knows long term consequences. I fear countries where it is out of control will decide to use it first - a lot of them poor - in fact CEPI wants to ensure it is freely available especially to those poor countries. Countries like Australia will probably wait because we mostly have it well under control - there is the second wave in Victoria - but that is likely to be contained in Victoria. For those that do not know the story of how the second wave occurred it has been traced back to - get this - the security guards were, how to put it, not trained that well, doing things like having sex with those quranteened .

Thanks
Bill

It's hard to blame them when Dr. Fauci said a while back that it was ok to 'hook up' with random strangers as long as both wore a mask.

 

[Astronuc]

Reuters reports that Cuba is testing two drugs that apparently mitigate the inflammatory response (cytokine storm) associated with SARS-CoV-2.

It [Cuba government] ascribes the recent reduction in deaths of severely ill COVID-19 patients largely to the use beginning in April of two drugs that appear to help calm the “cytokine storm,” a dangerous overresponse by the immune system in which it attacks healthy tissue as well as the invading virus.

One is itolizumab, a monoclonal antibody produced in Cuba and elsewhere. The other is a peptide that Cuba says its biotech industry discovered and has been testing for rheumatoid arthritis in Phase II clinical trials.

“Some 80 percent of patients who end up in critical condition are dying. In Cuba, with the use of these drugs, 80 percent of those who end up in critical or serious condition are being saved,” President Miguel Diaz-Canel said on Thursday in a meeting shown on state television.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-cuba-idUSKBN22Y2Y4

 

[bhobba]

It's hard to blame them when Dr. Fauci said a while back that it was ok to 'hook up' with random strangers as long as both wore a mask.

You just shake your head. The advice is 15 minutes of close contact is enough to get it - how much closer contact can you get than sex. And you can also catch it not just from breath, but from bodily secretions. That's how they are finding hotspots - analysing effluent.

I just saw my Rheumatologist today and asked his view. It's the same as mine gleaned from here - this thing is just so damn contagious. About 3000 people die each year from flu in Aus - so far only 106 has died here from Covid. So on the surface it seems not that dangerous. But that's because of the precautions we are taking - if they fail it will run wild and we will have many more deaths than the flu. I also asked about hydroxychloroquine. He uses it all the time (not on me though - it's contraindicated if you have psoriasis and/or psoriatic arthritis like I do) and said he thinks it's BS - it takes 6 weeks to work so how can it be used as a treatment? Interestingly he told me there was evidence that the Biologic I am on protects against the Cytokine Storm many Covid victims die from. My relief was palpable - I was really worried it put me at greater risk.

Thanks
Bill

 

[bhobba]

Reuters reports that Cuba is testing two drugs that apparently mitigate the inflammatory response (cytokine storm) associated with SARS-CoV-2.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-cuba-idUSKBN22Y2Y4

They both sound like Biologics similar to what I take that my Rheumatologist said is protective.

Thanks
Bill

 

[bob012345]

You just shake your head. The advice is 15 minutes of close contact is enough to get it - how much closer contact can you get than sex. And you can also catch it not just from breath, but from bodily secretions. That's how they are finding hotspots - analysing effluent.

I just saw my Rheumatologist today and asked his view. It's the same as mine gleaned from here - this thing is just so damn contagious. About 3000 people die each year from flu in Aus - so far only 106 has died here from Covid. So on the surface it seems not that dangerous. But that's because of the precautions we are taking - if they fail it will run wild and we will have many more deaths than the flu. I also asked about hydroxychloroquine. He uses it all the time (not on me though - it's contraindicated if you have psoriasis and/or psoriatic arthritis like I do) and said he thinks it's BS - it takes 6 weeks to work so how can it be used as a treatment? Interestingly he told me there was evidence that the Biologic I am on protects against the Cytokine Storm many Covid victims die from. My relief was palpable - I was really worried it put me at greater risk.

Thanks
Bill

The latest study I saw showed HCQ does work but it needs to be started early and it works best not by itself but in combination with zinc and another drug. Six weeks to work doesn't sound correct. Also, people with O type blood seem to get less severe infections.

 

[Astronuc]

June 11, 2020 - The D614G mutation in the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein reduces S1 shedding and increases infectivity
https://www.scripps.edu/news-and-ev...611-choe-farzan-sars-cov-2-spike-protein.html

 

[kadiot]

Off-topic...

Again I ask.
Why China, again?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/06/...YMCJ6OeOJ8Cza5ypLIdG5Sg-d7y7Br8Iti8SpbuYvqeVU

 

[Jarvis323]

Off-topic...

Again I ask.
Why China, again?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/06/asia/china-mongolia-bubonic-plague-intl-hnk-scli-scn/index.html?utm_source=fbCNN&utm_term=link&utm_content=2020-07-06T07:31:09&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR2eO-255pTO98YMCJ6OeOJ8Cza5ypLIdG5Sg-d7y7Br8Iti8SpbuYvqeVU

Here is some background on the plague in recent years. Cases have emerged in many countries. As recently as 2018 in Idaho. There's no reason to single out China on this.

Globally between 2010 and 2015 there were 3248 documented cases, which resulted in 584 deaths.[1] The countries with the greatest number of cases are the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Madagascar, and Peru.[1]

For over a decade since 2001, Zambia, India, Malawi, Algeria, China, Peru, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo had the most plague cases with over 1,100 cases in the Democratic Republic of the Congo alone. From 1,000 to 2,000 cases are conservatively reported per year to the WHO.[20] From 2012 to 2017, reflecting political unrest and poor hygienic conditions, Madagascar began to host regular epidemics.[20]

Between 1900 and 2015, the United States had 1,036 human plague cases with an average of 9 cases per year. In 2015, 16 people in the Western United States developed plague, including 2 cases in Yosemite National Park.[21] These US cases usually occur in rural northern New Mexico, northern Arizona, southern Colorado, California, southern Oregon, and far western Nevada.[22]

In November 2017, the Madagascar Ministry of Health reported an outbreak to WHO (World Health Organization) with more cases and deaths than any recent outbreak in the country. Unusually most of the cases were pneumonic rather than bubonic.[23]

In June 2018, a child was confirmed to be the first person in Idaho to be infected by bubonic plague in nearly 30 years.[24]

A couple died in May 2019, in Mongolia, while hunting marmots.[25] Another two people in the province of Inner Mongolia, China were treated in November 2019 for the disease.[26]

On July 2020, in Bayannur, Inner Mongoliaof China it was reported that a case of bubonic plague happened since the last case on May across the border of Inner Mongolia. Then later, the authorities issued a third-level of warning for plague prevention that will last till the end of the year. [27]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubonic_plague

 

[kadiot]

Herd immunity, if achieved, is theoretically a great thing. Theoretically. This is what we’ve been saying all along. No one can be sure of things, of their theories, especially that this pandemic has not run its full course and the virus is still unraveling. We can’t test our theories on the general population, the risks are simply too high. Prudence and caution are the way to go. We don’t even know for sure where it came from (Is it a chimera between two or more viruses? Did they come together naturally or were they engineered? If it’s the latter, to what end?), we’re still figuring out what it does to the body (New clinical presentations are documented months into the pandemic; it attacks different people differently; it’s not a respiratory illness as it attacks several other organs, too), and we’re still figuring out its possible correlations with blood type, ethnicity (genetics), existing maintenance medications or preexisting conditions, and even past vaccinations. There’s a lot we don’t know. Never be sure about a novel virus until and unless an overwhelming scientific consensus is formed taking into account every conceivable variable. It’d not only be embarrassing but it could cost lives if you’re proven wrong.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-antibodies-study-herd-immunity-unachievable-spain-2020-7

 

[mfb]

A link between COVID-19 and brain damage
Similar news

There is also a phenomenon of happy hypoxia: People with a blood oxygen saturation so low you would expect them to be unconscious - happily using their phones, talking to people and so on.

----------------

The latest study I saw showed HCQ does work but it needs to be started early and it works best not by itself but in combination with zinc and another drug. Six weeks to work doesn't sound correct. Also, people with O type blood seem to get less severe infections.

That study is nonsense. The group getting HCQ is much younger on average, and they also have a big difference in other medication. Not randomizing the groups or adjusting for absurdly obvious confounding factors is an error you wouldn't accept even from an undergrad report.

Off-topic...

Again I ask.
Why China, again?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/06/...YMCJ6OeOJ8Cza5ypLIdG5Sg-d7y7Br8Iti8SpbuYvqeVU

Because you picked the news report about a disease in China. You could have picked a news report about a disease elsewhere, but you chose not to. The real question is: Why did you pick China, again?

Herd immunity, if achieved, is theoretically a great thing.

If it doesn't come from a vaccine then it's the worst-case outcome.

This is what we’ve been saying all along.

Yes, and people have told you that you are wrong every time you mention it.

 

[bhobba]

The latest study I saw showed HCQ does work but it needs to be started early and it works best not by itself but in combination with zinc and another drug. Six weeks to work doesn't sound correct. Also, people with O type blood seem to get less severe infections.

I did a search to confirm that and they all said 6 weeks or longer eg:
https://rheumatology.org.au/patients/documents/Hydroxychloroquine_2016_008.pdf

My reading of the latest studies is the following:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...roxychloroquine-can-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

My Rheumatologist admitted it may work as a preventative, and I did see a study that showed it was 50% effective, but he wanted to see the study design before commenting.

Thanks
Bill

 

[mfb]

Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale
Shorter version: Sweden 'literally gained nothing' from staying open during COVID-19, including 'no economic gains'
Key aspects they find:

• Sweden's soft approach killed more people
• Their economy is as damaged as the economy of the neighbors
• Sweden's rules are now stricter than the (relaxed) rules of its neighbors. Norway in particular is expected to have a faster economic recovery

But Sweden’s grim result — more death, and nearly equal economic damage — suggests that the supposed choice between lives and paychecks is a false one: A failure to impose social distancing can cost lives and jobs at the same time.

There is also this interesting comparison to the US:

Collectively, Scandinavian consumers are expected to continue spending far more robustly than in the United States, said Thomas Harr, global head of research at Danske Bank, emphasizing those nations’ generous social safety nets, including national health care systems. Americans, by contrast, tend to rely on their jobs for health care, making them more cautious about their health and their spending during the pandemic, knowing that hospitalization can be a gateway to financial calamity.

I can't say I am surprised. This is what I wrote early April:

It's not like we have a choice "economy or people". The economy will see a recession either way, and no one knows reliably how much in any scenario. But we do know that an unstopped pandemic will kill many people while a stopped pandemic will have a very limited death toll.

 

[bob012345]

That study is nonsense. The group getting HCQ is much younger on average, and they also have a big difference in other medication. Not randomizing the groups or adjusting for absurdly obvious confounding factors is an error you wouldn't accept even from an undergrad report.

I disagree. I don't think it's wise to just dismiss a large study done by medical professionals.

https://khn.org/morning-breakout/study-finds-positive-results-for-hydroxychloroquine/