How to avoid killing birds with wind turbines

[pallidin]

For this type of problem, we must understand that a bird does not view the wind turbine as solid and, seemingly, does not account for it's rotation.
The trick, then, is to make the wind turbine appear solid.

Offset colored streamers attached to the blades could work during daytime.
You would have, say. 14 of them placed at equal intervals on the "first" blade starting from the top, and on the second and third blades they would be offset from the first placement intervals, giving an illusion of solidity in rotation.
But at night, gosh, that's tough. The least costly might be to use those same streamers and illuminated both the back and front with mirror directed strobe lights extended say, 4-feet from the generator, both front and back, thus illuminating the streamers.
Just my thoughts.

 

[hitssquad]

we must understand that a bird does not view the wind turbine as solid

Then why do birds perch on the spinning blades?

 

[hitssquad]

This is interesting:
http://www.ohiowind.org/ohiowind/page.cfm?pageID=2037

Early turbines were mounted on towers 60 to 80 feet in height and had rotors 50 to 60 feet in diameter which turned at rates of 60 to 80 revolutions per minute (rpm). Today's wind machines are mounted on towers 200 to 260 feet in height and have rotors ranging from 150 to 260 feet in diameter that turn at rates of 11 to 28 rpm. Although some turbine models allow rotors to “overspeed” briefly to accommodate abrupt wind gusts, blade tip speeds under normal operating conditions have not increased appreciably with the use of larger turbines. The turbine’s tip speed at rated output can range from 138-182 mph. The rotor speed range is 14.4-28.5 rpm.1 Large turbines produce much more electricity per machine than small turbines, and there are generally fewer machines with wider spacing in modern wind developments. Still larger turbines are being developed for the future.

 

[Dr.Brain]

We can use 'rotating-rings' , the angular speed of both the rings has to be setup in such a way that probability of bird entering in the 'ring-sphere' is minimum , the material to be used on the outside of these rings should be rubber (to avoid injuries if a bird strikes the rings ) or a shiny surface can be used on the outside of these rings , because these rings will rotate randomly covering every possible part of the sphere such that a bird coming in any direction and flying a good 15 metres away surely sees the sun's reflection in the shiny surface. Trust me i have seen birds flying away from sun's reflection because they can't see anything .

BJ

 

[hitssquad]

Darrieus turbine revisited

We can use 'rotating-rings'

The Darrieus turbine. It was mentioned above.

the angular speed of both the rings has to be setup in such a way that probability of bird entering in the 'ring-sphere' is minimum

Turbines have blades. Even Darrieus turbines have blades. Birds run into or get hit by those blades. This is the problem we are discussing.

the material to be used on the outside of these rings should be rubber (to avoid injuries if a bird strikes the rings)

Rubber amplifies the acceleration of striking objects and hence amplifies biological damage. This is why baseball helmets are not made of rubber.

 

[Dr.Brain]

Sorry but i am not expert on 'MATERIALS' , maybe material experts can find a better way out.I just explained a model which cam eout of mind.

BJ

 

[brewnog]

We can use 'rotating-rings' , the angular speed of both the rings has to be setup in such a way that probability of bird entering in the 'ring-sphere' is minimum

What, just adding more spinning things, but at even higher speeds?

I think that would work against the problem we're trying to solve. Not only will birds still be able to get into the turbine path, they'll also be able to get whacked by these rotating rings too.

 

[Dr.Brain]

What, just adding more spinning things, but at even higher speeds?

I think that would work against the problem we're trying to solve. Not only will birds still be able to get into the turbine path, they'll also be able to get whacked by these rotating rings too.

I had rather say 'poor birds' rather trying to solve the problem , I wish I could make them intelligent.

Anyways I would invite 'improvements' to my model rather than criticising the lack of intelligence of the birds

BJ

 

[Danger]

rather than criticising the lack of intelligence of the birds

The term 'bird-brain' did arise for a reason, you know.

What about flying randomly located mylar balloons around the area, with perhaps a bunch attached to the top of each tower? Maybe the combination of reflectiveness and erratic movement would scare the birds away. They could be illuminated with flood lights at night.

 

[Lisa!]

Please stop killing birds!You're even allowed to kill humans but not birds!
Maybe they cause some problem for them, so they can't find their direction!

 

[brewnog]

How about some absolutely massive scarecrows?

Just make some copies of The Angel of the North, dress it up in some rags and a big straw hat, and put one in every wind farm!

 

[Lisa!]

brewnog, are you ready to be killed instead of my birds?

 

[Danger]

brewnog, are you ready to be killed instead of my birds?

Your birds?
Good grief, woman... if they're yours, just keep them at home and we won't have this problem. Really, you people who let your pets roam free...

 

[Lisa!]

Your birds?
Good grief, woman... if they're yours, just keep them at home and we won't have this problem. Really, you people who let your pets roam free...

I do!But you don't know whole the world is my home ! (I recommend you not to call me woman, right! )

 

[Moonbear]

How about some absolutely massive scarecrows?

Just make some copies of The Angel of the North, dress it up in some rags and a big straw hat, and put one in every wind farm!

The whole scarecrow concept is why I lean toward skepticism that anything will really help. Ever look out in a garden or field with a scarecrow and see the crows perching on it?

I really suspect the problem is there's no way for the birds to learn. Those that fly too close end up dead before they can learn not to do that again.

 

[Loren Booda]

Paint the blades in such a manner that the birds feel threatened by the resulting (optical illusory) image.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I really suspect the problem is there's no way for the birds to learn. Those that fly too close end up dead before they can learn not to do that again.

Don't most birds stay fairly close to the ground? Is there a minimum height that could be considered?

 

[Danger]

(I recommend you not to call me woman, right! )

Got it, man... no problem.

Don't most birds stay fairly close to the ground?

That's pretty much when they're landing, taking off, or sleeping. Otherwise, they're fairly airborne.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Putting Wind Power's Effect On Birds In Perspective

Electricity generated from renewable energy resources is an environmentally-preferred alternative to conventionally produced electricity from fossil fuel and nuclear power plants. Many people believe that wind turbines should be part of the solution to a healthier environment, not part of the problem.

Over the past fifteen years, a number of reports have appeared in the popular press about wind turbines killing birds. Some writers have gone so far as to dub wind generators "raptor-matics" and "cuisinarts of the sky". Unfortunately, some of these articles have been used as "evidence" to stop the construction of a wind generator in someone's back yard. The reports of dead birds create a dilemma. Do wind generators really kill birds? If so, how serious is the problem? [continued]

http://www.awea.org/faq/sagrillo/swbirds.html

 

[Boffin]

Ivan, thanks for the report link about bird kills and wind turbines. I read it. Interesting to see actual statistics. But I think there is another futuristic aspect to this issue that needs to be addressed that is not covered by present statistics. Where are the birds supposed to fly in the future? Dams practically destroyed certain fish stocks. Farms have crowed out most natural animals.

Birds are actually very necessary to control the insect population. They are also pretty, and interesting to have around. Crowd out the birds and they likely will die off for lack of habitat. I think I would rather watch birds than windmills.

Then there is another related problem. Windmills everywhere could destroy the movie business. Movie producers rely on vast desolate natural areas especially to do period movies.

Wind turbines could also destroy the tourism industry. I am an avid outdoors person. I love to hike, bicycle, or kayak in natural scenery. Wind turbines could destroy this. I like to see wind turbines now and then, but to have them in your face everywhere would be annoying.

I've said my piece, now what do you think?

 

[brewnog]

I've said my piece, now what do you think?

I think there's rather a lot of hyperbole in there! Done on a large scale, it's unlikely that wind farms would be intentionally put in areas which attract tourists by being picturesque. The areas which would provide most power are generally offshore installations, where the prevailing wind conditions are not nearly as variable as on land. I don't think there's any danger of wind farms becoming so widespread that they would inhibit movie shootings, and if they got anywhere near this degree of prevalence, the impact on the movie industry would pale into insignificance compared with the amount of renewable energy we would be making use of. I'm not saying that I believe them to be a complete solution to our current energy problems (I don't), but I don't think the issues you've highlighted are really stopping the progress of wind farm installations.

In any case, I think they're beautiful, and have often stopped to stand and look at them whirring away over a sunset at sea...

 

[FredGarvin]

Did he just express concern for the movie industry? Come on...power production vs. another crappy Hollywood movie. Hmmm...

I do agree that studies on bird populations need to be conducted. Not only for the insect issue, but the impact on things such as migratory routes. There are plenty of techniques available for stopping bird impacts.

 

[beluluk]

I don't know much about the real thing... but... when i think about it..., not blocking the wind, but blocking the birds... how about a gridlines (perhaps from metal wires) sorrounding the wind turbine? (added cost of course)

If this solution to be taken, then make sure the grids make a considerable distance so the wind suction at the outside part of the grids wouldn't be so massive. And also, i know that birds love to perch/stand on a windy place. Perhaps a branch-like stick would be perfect with the grids. I imagine the birds making friends with the wind turbine... LOVELYY :)

ow yeah,... another "perhaps"..., perhaps we could make the wind turbines' blades not deadly for birds. perhaps by putting some soft, light and elastic fibers around the blades.

 

[Danger]

I suspect, beluluk, that the grid wires would be harder to see, and more damaging if hit, than the blades themselves.
As for the padding, maybe the blades could have some kind of moulded foamy leading edges, but it might be tough to find a substance that would stand up to the elements and still be soft. Also, it can't mess up the aerodynamics of the blades.

 

[beluluk]

I suspect, beluluk, that the grid wires would be harder to see, and more damaging if hit, than the blades themselves.

i don't know about that, and i couldn't try installing grid wires on those wind turbines because I'm faraway from them (about half of the Earth circular length ).

As for the padding, maybe the blades could have some kind of moulded foamy leading edges, but it might be tough to find a substance that would stand up to the elements and still be soft. Also, it can't mess up the aerodynamics of the blades.

I did and do hope some virtuous scientists would work on this. My location and my education do not permit me to help. I wish i could help more.

and yet... perhaps there would be another solution.

 

[Danger]

You can help just by continuing to care, and think about the problem. There's no reason that you have to be in the geographical vicinity of the windmills to apply your efforts. Talk it over with some friends, get them involved in trying to figure out a solution, and keep passing the word. Although, as Ivan pointed out, it's not really a major problem, there's certainly no harm in trying to alleviate it.

 

[beluluk]

Thanks Danger

You can help just by continuing to care, and think about the problem. There's no reason that you have to be in the geographical vicinity of the windmills to apply your efforts. Talk it over with some friends, get them involved in trying to figure out a solution, and keep passing the word.

Thanks... sure i will.

Although, as Ivan pointed out, it's not really a major problem, there's certainly no harm in trying to alleviate it.

Chinese proverb says "It's easier to stop the river flow from the streams" means "It's easier to handle problem when it still a small problem" or something like that. I just don't want we to have a massive problem like "green house effect" arise from our "ordinary" daily life.:shy:

 

[Intuitive]

Stories about bird kills caused by wind turbines are common. I really don't see why this is a problem. It seems to me that something fairly simple could be done; lights, sound, optical effects using colored paints...something. Does anyone know much about this?

If you are referring to ground level Wind Turbines for harnessing Wind then by adding a wave guide to the wind turbine with a metal net screen over the entrance that has to small of holes for birds to get through might help dramatically.

If you were referring about Motor/Engine driven Wind Turbines then kindly disregard this post.

 

[Genecks]

Smarter birds?

That would be a result of keeping the wind turbines out.
IF in fact it kills them, I'm not sure of this.

 

[Danger]

Inutitive, your approach would be the logical way to go in a theoretical sense, but I'm not sure if you realize the scale of these things. That would be an incredible amount of mass being added to the structure. I suppose that you could consider such things to be mounted on the ground in front of the turbine, but they'd still be huge. There might be too much disruption of airflow to allow the turbines to work properly.

 

[DM]

Inutitive, your approach would be the logical way to go in a theoretical sense, but I'm not sure if you realize the scale of these things. That would be an incredible amount of mass being added to the structure. I suppose that you could consider such things to be mounted on the ground in front of the turbine, but they'd still be huge. There might be too much disruption of airflow to allow the turbines to work properly.

But is nonetheless being considered, isn't it?

 

[Danger]

I really don't know. Other than here in PF, I've never read anything about it.

 

[quantumcarl]

Use alternatives

Stories about bird kills caused by wind turbines are common. I really don't see why this is a problem. It seems to me that something fairly simple could be done; lights, sound, optical effects using colored paints...something. Does anyone know much about this?

Pincer Creek (Alberta, Canada) is a 600 acre wind farm that has proven inefficent due to variant wind speeds where the brakes on the wind generators are being over used and reducing the generating capacity of the generators.

The whole farm will have to be moved to another local which will negate any of the energy savings it generated over its 10 yr(?) history. This will be a problem for most established wind farms as climate changes force changes in human behaviour and development.

Alternatives to wind power will save the birds being killed by the rotors of the wind powered electricity generators.

Solar panels have the potential to become a primary source of electricity.

Nuclear power may or may not serve as a source depending on lessening its effects on the environment (hot water, radiation etc.).

Hydrogen fuel cell technology holds a highly potential promise. The separation of Hydrogen from other compounds poses the question of where to get the energy but, according to global warming specialists, the sun is increasing in temperature as we speak... thus, an increasing source of energy via solar cells to facilitate the production of hydrogen.

Last count of Bald Eagles gathering around one river here was around 3000 last fall. And Fuel Cell Technology was invented here (Ballard Energy Systems).

 

[Boffin]

Alternatives to wind power will save the birds being killed by the rotors of the wind powered electricity generators.

I agree. It would be a shame if the whole world was cluttered with windmills, tens of thousands of miles of high tension lines spread out all over the place connecting them, trees cut down for the right of ways, natural views destroyed, bird populations reduced etc. only to realize later that other forms of power are superior. I think wind power is very appropriate for certain isolated locations. The problem with wind power is that a large area of land must be farmed.

Much more solar energy can be collected per area than with wind, though I understand that the land underneath wind farms can be used for other things. Solar energy is also more regular than wind power. If fusion power might work some day and have little radiation issues, this would alter our environment the least.

Let's at least analyze the big picture and figure out what makes sense to push for. Sure if the other alternatives don't work, maybe we have to live with a certain destruction of the environment because there is no other way. Killing of birds by wind turbines is just one aspect wind power.

That's the way I see it, what do you think?

 

[quantumcarl]

I agree. It would be a shame if the whole world was cluttered with windmills, tens of thousands of miles of high tension lines spread out all over the place connecting them, trees cut down for the right of ways, natural views destroyed, bird populations reduced etc. only to realize later that other forms of power are superior. I think wind power is very appropriate for certain isolated locations. The problem with wind power is that a large area of land must be farmed.
Much more solar energy can be collected per area than with wind, though I understand that the land underneath wind farms can be used for other things. Solar energy is also more regular than wind power. If fusion power might work some day and have little radiation issues, this would alter our environment the least.
Let's at least analyze the big picture and figure out what makes sense to push for. Sure if the other alternatives don't work, maybe we have to live with a certain destruction of the environment because there is no other way. Killing of birds by wind turbines is just one aspect wind power.
That's the way I see it, what do you think?

I agree up to one point you made where

maybe we have to live with a certain destruction of the environment because there is no other way.

If we have to live with a certain destruction of the environment we are not assured of surviving very long and potentially crashing and burning within the next 40 years.

It's our blind ambitions and blind tolerance of the short-term energy solutions that have us relying on a resource that will barely last 150 years in total. (fossil fuels).

Initially fossil fuels were a wind-fall... now and with a bit more time... oil will be the "fall" of western civilization. We are running out of options and we need an overlap between fossil fuels and their alternatives now. That's why wind power has enjoyed some investment. But, short-sighted investments lead to short-lived gains and long-suffered follies... put the thinking-cap on humanity!