Is the Israel Wall a symbol of oppression?

[GENIERE]

Many of us can have written on our tombstone:

I lived, I hated, i died!

 

[studentx]

I read all your links Adam, i see nothing of value to this discussion.

And, once again, it is not "Palestinians" responsible. Please rid yourself of that ridiculously bigoted idea. It is a small minority of people. Unless you think Tim McVeigh being a terrorist makes "Americans" terrorists?

Its also not israelis responsible. Its a small group of Israelis who have actually killed Palestinians. This group is probably smaller than the palestinian terror groups. Yet you portray all Israelis as nazis. This is what appears to be one dimensional Adam, and after careful studying i can confirm your discussions are often one dimensional objects.

 

[Hurkyl]

See the post above, and the links regarding ad hominem responses.

Maybe you should read your own links. Argumentum ad hominem is not always a fallacy.

 

[Adam]

Its also not israelis responsible. Its a small group of Israelis who have actually killed Palestinians. This group is probably smaller than the palestinian terror groups.

Actually this Israeli group has over 1.5 million members, and an annual budget of more than nine billion US dollars. It's called the Israeli Defence Force.

Yet you portray all Israelis as nazis.

Please support this assertion.

 

[Adam]

Maybe you should read your own links. Argumentum ad hominem is not always a fallacy.

Please read this thread. All occurences of it here are.

 

[Adam]

Many of us can have written on our tombstone:

I lived, I hated, i died!

It is true, many can. I won't, as I don't particularly hate anyone. If you are referring to the IDF, then I think it is important to understand the indoctrination which occurs within the ranks. They are basically taught that all Palestinians, and all Arabs, are murdering scum who must be treated with extreme suspicion at best.

 

[Adam]

I guess these sources are unreliable too?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/25/breaking.silence/
http://www.jerusalemites.org/editorial/86.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A766-2004Jun23.html

 

[Hurkyl]

Please read this thread. All occurences of it here are.

If you read your links, you'd also know that the proper refutation of a fallacious argumentum ad hominem isn't simply calling it fallacious.

 

[Adam]

Simply identifying an ad hominem, to how what it is, is enough to nullify it as a logical argument. If it is a logical fallacy, it is not a logical argument. Points raised in conjunction with the logical fallacy may be rational (I haven't seen any in this thread), but they are rarely so.

 

[Adam]

Anyway, Hurkyl, are you going to continue swimming with the school and focus on Adam The Magnificent, or will you make an attempt at commenting on the material I have provided? Once again, I am thus far the only person to provide something other than a personal opinion.

 

[Hurkyl]

Actually I'm more interested in the argumentation than the subject of the debate. I don't mean to be insulting, but I simply don't understand why you think you're making a point.

 

[russ_watters]

Actually I'm more interested in the argumentation than the subject of the debate. I don't mean to be insulting, but I simply don't understand why you think you're making a point.

That's what I've always considered to be the most intriguing thing about Adam.

 

[Adam]

If you read other peoples' posts in this thread, you will not see information provided, as I have done. You will see:

• Attacks on the credibility of the sources of information, including news services (including USA news services), the United Nations, even dictionaries.
• Comments about my alleged bias, which has zero to do with the information presented, and is actually unidentified thus far by other users.
• Blind refusal to even peruse the information supplied.
• Flat out insults such as "Grow up".
• Many accusations made without any support.
• And from two PF mentors, a continuing effort to shift the focus of the thread toward a user, taking it off topic.

Once again, kids: Try to focus on the topic, and on the material provided.

 

[drag]

Strange, Adam...
Living in Australia, you probably know about
Israeli school textbooks more than me...
It's just that, I've been trying to remember
Israeli school books which portray arabs as
evil murderers and couldn't remember any.
Then again, I've only studied in an Israeli school
starting from the fourth grade, maybe it was
during the first 3 years that I missed.

Anyway, the best part, is that you consider
information coming from an organization that
accepts Iran and the US as having an equal status
(security council excluded) and allows both to equally
affect that information - a fully trustworthy source.
UN information is fitted for UN policy, UN policy
is fitted for UN members majority, UN members
majority on questions concerning Israel comes
from a multitude of always one-sided Arab and
Muslim countries (prospering democracies, for the
most part ) and countries (like those of the EU)
that care about their own economical and political relations
with the Arab and Muslim countries a lot more than some
tiny injustices they do - it's called politics. Of course,
then they need to justify their policy to the average
citizen in simple terms of right and wrong.

Live long and prosper.

 

[kat]

Israeli Textbooks and Children's Literature Promote Racism and Hatred Toward Palestinians and Arabs

PART TWO

"Suppression of provocative language and incitments to hatred and violence in Israeli and Palestinian school textbooks and the media" - The Example of Israeli Textbooks

The Example of Israeli Textbooks
CMIP focuses its research on official policy, i.e. on textbooks and curricula in use in schools that are under the responsibility and/or supervision of the official authorities. In the case of the Israeli textbooks, in that it has also reviewed about 50 schoolbooks of the ultra-orthodox (H'aredi) sector. The reason for this exception being that although being outside government supervision, this sector which encompasses less than 10 % of the Israeli education system, receives public funding.

The Israeli textbooks were examined according to criteria set out by UNESCO and CMIP. CMIP has found that the Israeli textbooks respond positively to all these criteria, despite the deterioration that has occurred in the political situation since the end of 2000.

- The "other", the Palestinians, are recognized and accepted, and they are not stereotyped and prejudiced. With the exception of a few examples in ultra orthodox textbooks, CMIP did not find stereotypes, prejudices or patronizing terminology towards the Arabs and the Palestinians, in Israeli textbooks.

- A particular effort to avoid prejudices and to guard against generalizations. On prejudice, the following is to be found in a textbook for Grade seven:
"Many people think: The dove is a bird that pursues peace. This belief is incorrect; it is a prejudice: people believe it without checking it. There are a lot of prejudices. For example:


1.The Jews control the world and exploit all those who live in it.
2.The blacks are inferior; they are incapable of being scientists.
3.The Arabs only understand the language of force...
Be ready to explain orally why these are prejudices." (I Understand, 1993, p.259)

- Regarding generalizations, an elementary textbook on reading comprehension concludes a story on how a Jewish girl was saved by an Arab woman by stressing:"The Arabs are like the Jews. … There are nasty people among them and there are decent people and … they should not be labeled" (What is the Interpretation? Comprehension B, pp. 184-188).

- Generalizations and patronizing terminology are to be found in H'aredi textbooks, such as: "We [the Ishmaelites] cannot accept the Torah, it is difficult for us not to steal" [Everything in its Time, first grade reader, 1995, pp.233-234). "There is no logical explanation for the strange vision of the flight of the Arab fellaheen … It seems that they did not strike any roots in this land, did not connect to it in any way. They dwelled in it, for hundreds of years, but did not settle in it They were like foreigners to it, like wayfarers who rest along the way" (Our Childhood, 1989, p. 350)

- Recognition and acceptance of the Palestinians as a people, are to be found: "The Jews and the Arabs were two national communities struggling over the same piece of land and the British could not establish peace between them… During the 1930's, Arab nationalist movement evolved all over the Middle East. Many of the Arabs of Eretz Yisrael also began formulating a national consciousness - in other words, the perception that they are not just part of the larger Arab nation, but are also Palestinians.." [The twentieth Century- On the threshold of tomorrow, Grade 9, 1999, p.44). Or a text referring to the content of the Oslo agreements reads "the PLO was recognized [ by Israel] as the legitimate leadership of the Palestinians". (Europe without borders, pp. 63-64).

- Achievements of the other are recognized. "However, the Arabs were not simply cultural middlemen, they were also creators of culture. For example, they were the first to discover the existence of infectious diseases. They were also the first to build public hospitals. Because of their considerable contribution to various scientific fields, there are disciplines that to this day are called by their Arabic names, such as algebra. The Islamic religion also influenced the development of culture. The obligation to pray in the direction of Mecca led to the development of astronomy, which helped identify the direction according to the heavenly bodies. The duty to make a pilgrimage developed geography and gave a push to the writing of travel books. These books, and the Arabs' high capability in map drawing, helped develop trade. To this day, merchants use Arabic words, such as bazaar, check and tariff. Since the language of the Koran is Arabic, the Muslims spent much time researching the Arabic language and grammar." (From Generation to Generation, Vol.b, 1994, p. 220)

Another quote from an eighth grade History textbook refers more specifically to the Arabs of Palestine: "In general we are mistaken in regard to a great people… This is the mightiest, most excellent people in physical attainments and in the skill of its understanding. We must not belittle its rights [of the Arab people in Palestine]. The Hebrew people respect not only the personal rights of each person, but rather the national right of each nation and tribe" (From Conservatism to Progress, 1996, p. 374).

- Political disputes are presented objectively and honestly. Controversial issues are addressed: the historian Benny Morris, namely that "the main catalyst for the flight was the attacks by the Hagana, Etzel, Lehi and Israel Defense Forces and not the calls or instructions of the leaders of Arab countries or of the Supreme Arab Council and the Mufti." (From Exile to Independence - The History of the Jewish People in Recent Generations, vol. 2, 1990, p. 312).

- The point of view of the other side is presented: "About half a year after Anwar Sadat entered into office he proposed to the Government of Israel to commence political negotiations (February 1971). Israel treated Sadat's proposal with scorn out of the feeling of power and superiority that had taken hold of Israeli society following the Six Day War. After his proposal had been rejected and the political stalemate continued, Sadat decided to go to war. He proclaimed that he was prepared to sacrifice a million soldiers in order to liberate the territories that Israel had captured. He even threatened Israel that, if it did not withdraw from the Sinai Peninsula, it would pay a high price. Israel saw his words as empty boasting. But Sadat continued with his preparations and he and the President of Syria, Assad, decided to launch an attack against Israel during the course of 1973" (K. Tabibian, Journey to the Past - The Twentieth Century, By Dint of Freedom, 1999, p. 313).

- Simulation games are used to help the pupil internalize other views:
"4. Divide into groups representing Jewish journalists and Palestinian journalists who have been sent to cover the discussion in the United Nations Organization leading to the Partition Resolution.
A. Prepare a report that will include details about the discussion in the United Nations Organization, the position of some of the states participating in it and the results of the discussion, the vote and reactions to the resolution...
C. Discuss with the whole class the differences between the reports of Jewish journalists and those of the Palestinian journalists". (K. Tabibian, Journey To The Past - The Twentieth Century, By Dint of Freedom, 1999, p. 294).

"You are to take part in a simulation game, the purpose of which is for you to reach the maximum regional cooperation that will ensure by peaceful means a fair division of water, to understand the special needs of each country in the region ..."… The parties participating in the discussion must reach a rational arrangement that is in accord with the treaties on water rights. The condition for the approval of the arrangement for the division of water is its acceptability to the representatives of all the countries participating. The arrangement is to be approved by the representative of the United Nations... The game continues until arrangements have been reached between all the countries" (Water in the Era of Peace - Learning Unit about the Water Problem in our Region and Ways to Solve it, 2000, pp. 151-152).

- Examples of tolerance and respect include explicit mention of the Arabs and Muslims' attachment to the Holy Land, to Jerusalem and to their holy sites there: "The Land of Israel in general, and Jerusalem in particular, have been sanctified more and more in Islamic thought - as Islam has developed and spread, both religiously and geographically. As Islam absorbed more and more of the world conquered by it, so it adapted and Islamized the values that it absorbed, including the holiness of the Land of Israel, its flora and its water, living in it, the sanctity of being buried in it and the like. All these became from that time onwards part of orthodox Islam... The expression of the holiness of the Land of Israel and Jerusalem in Islam can be found in the erection of the pair of mosques on the Temple Mount". (H. Peleg, G.Zohar… This is the Land - Introduction to Land of Israel Studies for the Upper Grades, 2000, pp. 161-162.)


-

Peace is not advocated as utopia, but depicted as a concrete achievement resulting from men's actions, through talks, negotiations and compromises, taking into account the legitimate interests of the other side. The principles and commitments of the Oslo agreements are provided, including their territorial significance. (This is the Land - Introduction to Land of Israel Studies for Upper Grades, 2000, pp. 20-21).

 

[kat]

JEWS, ISRAEL AND PEACE IN PALESTINIAN TEXTBOOKS

The executive summary:

http://www.edume.org/reports/11/1.htm

Following the two surveys by CMIP of school textbooks published by the Palestinian Authority in 2000 and 2001, for grades 1, 2, 6, 7, and (as to one textbook) for grade 11, this latest report examines a newer set of some 35 books in various subjects published by the Authority in 2002, mainly for grades 3 and 8. As in the earlier surveys, the contents of the books were scrutinized according to the criteria set by UNESCO and CMIP (see Introduction). The main findings of this survey are as follows:


Judaism is presented as a monotheistic religion to which, by implication at least, Palestine is holy. Although this is something that was absent from the books published previously, the Jewish holy places in the country as such are still completely ignored.
The Jews are mentioned several times, mostly unfavorably, in historical contexts. When they are mentioned in the context of the present conflict, they are demonized as "Tartars", oppressors, slaughterers and as people who do not hesitate to shoot peaceful travelers on the road. No attempt is made to present them as human beings with rights and interests, national and other, of their own and the Jew as an individual is never discussed. The historical, national and religious connection of the Jewish people with Palestine is never mentioned. On the other hand, the mention of their "trickery", to be found in an earlier textbook, is omitted in a newer book when it refers to the same episode.
The tendency to ignore Israel as a sovereign state continues. Accordingly, Israel's name does not appear on any map. Moreover, some of the maps refer to the whole country as Palestine and Israeli cities and geographical sites are presented as Palestinian., The Palestinian Authority, however, unlike Israel, is referred to as an independent state.
Jerusalem is presented as an exclusively Arab city and as the capital of the State of Palestine. The Jews' presence there and their historical religious and national connections with it are not mentioned, except for a brief reference to its being holy to "the three monotheistic religions". Jerusalem is also personified as a suffering Arab entity.
There is a systematic effort in the textbooks to demonize Israel and the Israelis. The establishment of the State of Israel caused a catastrophe; Israel is an aggressive state; Israelis shoot civilians, demolish houses, "kill" cities and villages by expulsion and destruction, seize Palestinian land for the establishment of Jewish settlements and cause economic distress and environmental pollution and even bring about family violence among the Palestinians. A major theme is the Israeli occupation, but there are passages that in this context clearly refer to parts of Israel within the pre 1967 borders and not just to the West Bank and Gaza.
The blame for the refugee problem is placed exclusively on Israel. The only solution to the problem envisaged in the textbooks is the return of all the refugees to their former homes.
Tolerance is advocated towards followers of other religions, but, as in the earlier books published by the PNA, when it comes to a more detailed discussion, only relations between Muslims and Christians are addressed.
Peace, which is discussed in general terms, is a new phenomenon in Palestinian textbooks. Peace with Israel, the peace process and the Oslo Agreements on which it is based, however, are still not discussed.
The liberation of Palestine, on the other hand, is mentioned on three occasions, two of which refer by implication to the territory of Israel within the pre 1967 borders.
Jihad and martyrdom are prominent subjects in the textbooks. Both are praised and encouraged. Jihad's main purpose is making the Muslim nation strong and dreaded by its enemies. In one place martyrdom is portrayed as a wedding party.
Terror is formally rejected, which too is a new phenomenon, but such rejection basically turns on a question of definition and there are expressions indicating a positive attitude to members of the Palestinian armed organizations ("Fida'is") who also target civilians. Those of them who are jailed by Israel are called "prisoners-of-war".
It is worth noting that the PNA have now produced their own books, in place of the Jordanian and Egyptian books previously in use, for 50% of the school grades. The Palestinian school textbooks in the third round of their publication still do not comply with the criteria set by UNESCO. Although some new positive nuances are to be found in them, they do not contain a real commitment to peace and reconciliation with Israel.

 

[Adam]

The Maureen Meehan article: http://www.mideastjournal.com/israelitextbooks6.html

 

[Adam]

ISRAEL OR PALESTINE: WHO TEACHES WHAT HISTORY?

Part One:

A textbook case

The Israelis have withdrawn from the school curriculum a textbook giving a balanced view of the nation's history, only a few months after international media accused the Palestinian Authority of using anti-semitic schoolbooks. These did have omissions, but their real error was to refute Israel's version of Palestinian history.

By ELISA MORENA *

"There is no alternative to destroying Israel." This quote forms the banner headline of the website of the American lobby Jews for Truth Now (1). Last November and December this group published an insert in several American and Israeli papers featuring the slogan and giving as its source an encyclopaedia Our Country Palestine, mentioned in new Palestinian school textbooks for 11 year-olds (2). The lobby linked the intifada directly to "anti-semitic indoctrination" of Palestinian children from the earliest age. It also asked the United Nations to set up an international commission of enquiry into "racist teaching in Palestinian books, which also call for genocide".

The starting point for the controversy, which started last autumn at the time of the intifada, was a report by an American non-governmental organisation, The Centre for Monitoring the Impact of Peace (CMIP), entitled The New Palestinian Authority School Textbooks for Grades One and Six (3). The study claimed that the textbooks did not once try to teach peace and coexistence with Israel, rather the reverse. The conclusion, translated into numerous languages, was clear: the Palestinian Authority was instilling a culture of hate in its children that explained the fanaticism of the Palestinians.

Since the June 1967 war and the start of Israeli occupation schoolchildren in the West Bank and Gaza Strip have used Jordanian and Egyptian textbooks respectively, with modifications imposed by Israel which sought to eliminate anti-semitic and anti-Zionist references. In 1991, at the time of the Madrid conference, the Palestinians began the groundwork for the new ministries that came into being three years later with the setting up of the Palestinian Authority. Eighty Palestinians, from both the territories and the diaspora, started work on a first, unified Palestinian school curriculum for the West Bank and Gaza.

In 1994 this was one of the main concerns of the new deputy minister for education, Na'im Abul Hommos. "The educational system that we inherited was in a sorry state," he explained: "overcrowded classes, lack of teachers and antiquated textbooks dating from pre-1967, teaching Gaza children, for instance, about the greatness of the Egyptian kingdom and its 20m inhabitants [Egypt became a republic in 1953 and now has a population of 65m]."

Dozens of teachers and professionals from both public and private sectors were consulted and a new centre set up. Some Arab countries, such as Morocco, were invited to take part, as was Unesco. The result was a 700-page document which was put before the Palestinian legislative assembly and passed unanimously. In 1998 work began on the first textbooks for grades one and six, funded by a donation from Italy administered by the World Bank. The new books reached the schools last September; and all primary and secondary schools are due to receive them at a rate of two grades a year. In the meantime the old Jordanian and Egyptian books are still being used.

Legitimising Israel

Yohanan Manor, vice president of the CMIP, denies any links to the California-based Jews for Truth Now. He even says that the centre intends to sue the group for using the CMIP report ill-advisedly (the Jews for Truth Now website had a hyperlink to the report). Nonetheless the report uses the same quote as the lobby from Our Country Palestine: "There is no alternative to destroying Israel."

Palestinian ministry of education officials point out that the book cited in the CMIP report was written in 1947, before the state of Israel came into being. The CMIP replies that the book was revised in 1965 and that this later edition still carried the offending quote (which does not, however, appear in the school textbooks). Further enquiry shows that it is the 1947 edition that is mentioned in the Palestinian textbooks, and that it cannot therefore have been referring to the state of Israel, which did not come into being until 1948.

More broadly, the CMIP contends that the textbooks attempt to delegitimise Israel. But the quote in question has to do with the history of the conflict, the gradual Zionist takeover of Palestine between 1917 and 1948, the expulsion of the Palestinians, etc. The question is whether peace would mean that the Palestinians would have to give up their own approach to history and adopt one that presents the Zionist undertaking as legitimate. Should anyone who talks about the expulsion of the Palestinians - as many Israeli historians do - be suspected of "calling for genocide"? Can we really reproach the textbooks for glorifying Izz al-Din al-Qassam, one of the heroes of the Palestinian struggle in the 1930s, on the grounds that his name has been used by the military wing of Hamas?

Various omissions in the textbooks are more problematic. The CMIP report states that geography and national education textbooks for the sixth grade have maps of Palestine in which Israel is not shown, but only the towns of the West Bank and Gaza and those inside Israel which were once Palestinian (Jaffa, Haifa) or still are (Nazareth). Another map clearly shows the West Bank and Gaza Strip but leaves the position of Israel to the imagination. Furthermore the 1993 Oslo accords between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) are scarcely mentioned (especially on the subject of the PLO's return to Palestine).

Abul Hommos replies that Israel has even now failed to define its borders, which is why the ministry decided not to show them. But it is hard to understand why, with or without borders, the existence of the state of Israel is not indicated at all - even its name is absent. On the subject of the Oslo accords, Abul Hommos says: "They have meant nothing but deceit and frustration for Palestinians. Most of the Israeli redeployments did not take place and the building of settlements has never been so prolific. Do you want us to praise them?". But why, without praising the accords, did the Palestinians pass them over in almost total silence?

 

[Adam]

ISRAEL OR PALESTINE: WHO TEACHES WHAT HISTORY?

Part Two

Support dries up

The CMIP's own position on the issue of the Palestinian textbooks finally had its effect. Last December Italy - subject to strong parliamentary pressure in the midst of an election campaign - decided to stop funding the development of the Palestinian curriculum. The World Bank officially told the Palestinian ministry of education that the money destined for books for 7, 8, 12 and 14 year-olds, as well as for teacher training for these same years, would be allocated to other activities.

A chapter on tolerance in the textbook National Education destined for 11 year-olds also caused an outcry in Israel and beyond. One of its illustrations showed a Palestinian Christian and Muslim shaking hands. The CMIP deplored the absence of a Jew or Israeli in the illustration, arguing that Islam had historically offered protection to both Jews and Christians. The minister responded that the CMIP report failed to take into account that the book was intended, as its title showed, to register the national reality of a country in which Palestinians, Christian and Muslim, live.

Professor Ruth Firer, responsible for another study financed by the Truman Institute for the Advancement of Peace (4), refutes the accusations of her colleagues at the CMIP: "There is nothing unusual about this chapter; most of the world's school textbooks take a similar approach. It shows that the CMIP has no teaching experience and that its report was motivated by purely political considerations, designed to show that there can be no peace with the Palestinians."

She admits that the results of her research are not very different from that of the CMIP - in particular on the subject of the often glorified martyrs - but she distances herself from the CMIP's interpretation and the use made of it. "My research is on the portrayal of the Arab-Israeli conflict in schoolbooks used by both peoples since the end of the 19th century," she explains. "My aim is to show the representation of the "other" and to understand how and why it evolved. People are beginning to recognise Israeli responsibility for the Palestinian exodus but we've had to wait 50 years for it. This is the first time the Palestinians have been able to design their own books. It's not fair or intellectually honest to try and compare them to Israel's books."

Firer adds: "It's always easier for the occupier to show signs of generosity to the occupied than the reverse. The Israelis do not know the daily reality in the occupied territories and don't understand that the 1993 accords did not bring the Palestinians the promised prosperity." She remarks that "the new Palestinian schoolbooks have far fewer negatives stereotypes towards Jews and Israelis than the Jordanian and Egyptian textbooks previously used." Furthermore, she says, "until the 1960s Israeli textbooks were nothing but instruments of Zionist propaganda, full of racist clichés towards goyim [non-Jews] and even towards Oriental Jews; in addition they totally failed to take into account the existence of a Palestinian people." The present debate needs to be seen in this context of deep differences of perception and experience.

Though the CMIP's Yohanan Manor considers that Israeli textbooks are incomparably more conducive to coexistence than those of the Palestinians, he concedes that they are not perfect: "It's true that the textbooks generally used in ultra-orthodox schools sometimes contain shocking and racist passages about the Arabs" (5). He says that he has told the Israeli education minister about it. The remarks have, however, escaped general notice.

Dr Firer, trying to break the enduring stereotypes, is working with Palestinian colleagues on producing a schoolbook for 12 year-olds that has already been tested on both Israeli and Palestinian pupils; there is a separate version for each, but they are based on the same values. Naturally, she says, "these books won't appear until the political situation has been normalised." In the meantime she will continue to encourage cooperation between Palestinian and Israeli teachers: "For even if there was a peace accord between the politicians, it would take years to re-educate people and teach them to accept and tolerate each other."

This approach is very different from Manor's. "By signing the Oslo accords," he says, "the Palestinians and Israelis agreed to recognise each other's right to exist. It's unfortunate that Palestinian schoolbooks do not reflect this historic decision or recognise the legitimacy of Israel. This recognition is perhaps synonymous with suffering for them, but our own exile also represents suffering."

Abul Hommos replies: "We have developed and will go on producing books written by Palestinians for Palestinians, which aim to teach different subjects. They will be revised in the light of the reality we live in, whether it's scientific, cultural or political. Our books aren't the Koran, they are open to revision." He accuses the CMIP of being one-sided - a view shared by Ruth Firer. Itamar Marcus, research director of the CMIP report, is a well-known settler who lives in Efrat, an Israeli settlement built in 1982.

As for the 10 classes for whom textbooks have yet to be written, Abul Hommos hopes to find other foreign backing "provided we are not subjected to censure or interference, in which case we'll have to rely on our own finances". He says that each pupil has given five shekels (around $1) to the school curriculum development centre attached to his ministry, a symbolic gesture which will, however, enable it to go on running for a few more months. The centre, like all public-sector Palestinian institutions, is being suffocated by Israel's policy of closure and economic strangulation of the autonomous territories. Rather than any book, it is this strategy of repression that is widening the gap between Palestinians and Israelis.

----------------------------------------
* Journalist, Ramallah

(1) See Jews for Truth Now.

(2) Biladna Falastin, (Our Country Palestine), vol 1, by Palestinian historian and geographer Mustafa Mourad Dabbagh, 1947 edition revised in 1965 and 1988, Beirut.

(3) The New Palestinian Authority School Textbooks for Grades One and Six, Centre for Monitoring the Impact of Peace, November 2000, p 1. The CMIP published in 1998 a study of Palestinian school textbooks which influenced the decision to include education in the remit of the US-Israeli-Palestinian committee for combating incitement to violence during the drawing up of the Wye River memorandum of 23 October 1998 (paragraph 11-A-3-).

(4) The study, partly financed by Unesco and Unicef, was published in May by the Truman Institute for the Advancement of Peace, which is part of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. It compares narratives of the Arab-Israeli conflict in Arab and Israeli textbooks since the end of the 19th century until the present date.

(5) In September 2000 the CMIP published a report entitled Arabs and Palestinians in Israeli Textbooks.

http://www.en.monde-diplomatique.fr/2001/07/11textbook

Translated by Wendy Kristianasen

http://www.mideastjournal.com/israelitextbooks1.html
http://www.en.monde-diplomatique.fr/2001/07/11textbook

 

[Adam]

For a comprehensive erport on education there, check out this site from Human Rights Watch: http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/israel2/

Here is a collection of other articles: http://www.mideastjournal.com/textbookswars.html

"DEAR SOLDIER, PLEASE KILL A LOT OF ARABS": http://www.mideastjournal.com/israelitextbooks4.html

 

[Adam]

As for the CMIP report:

In the ultra-orthodox stream examples of prejudice, patronizing expressions and disrespect to Arabs can be found.

However, in some books in the ultra-orthodox network relations between Arabs and Jews are portrayed in negative terms.

Many history textbooks describe contacts and meetings between Jewish and Arab leaders from the beginning of the conflict, breaking the stereotype of an Arab world united in their opposition to the Zionism. Failure of these contacts is attributed to the Arabs. Only a few books provide the student with data on the Arab population from the beginning of Jewish immigration to Palestine in the late nineteenth century, until the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948. Complete statistics o n the Arab population are provided partially and sporadically when clashes or disturbances are described, leaving the pupil with a distorted impression of the Jews having been the majority since the beginning of their settlement.

There is a large variety of maps. Some maps describe accurately the distribution of Arab population in Palestine in different periods. Other maps, mostly in the ultra-orthodox network, illustrate Israel without mentioning the existence of Arabs, country.

The Arabs are presented as responsible for the outbreak of all the wars.

http://www.edume.org/reports/5/1.htm

And here we have terms used in Israeli textbooks to describe Palestinians and Arabs in general: http://www.edume.org/reports/5/3.htm

You can see more of it here: http://www.edume.org/reports/5/toc.htm

 

[Adam]

Strange, Adam...
Living in Australia, you probably know about
Israeli school textbooks more than me...
It's just that, I've been trying to remember
Israeli school books which portray arabs as
evil murderers and couldn't remember any.
Then again, I've only studied in an Israeli school
starting from the fourth grade, maybe it was
during the first 3 years that I missed.

So you an Israeli who attended Israeli schools? Do you consider your own opinion unbiased? I don't know, perhaps you have no bias. What do you think? Could you perhaps scan your textbooks, do some OCR and post them on the net as webpages? That would be helpful.

Anyway, the best part, is that you consider
information coming from an organization that
accepts Iran and the US as having an equal status
(security council excluded) and allows both to equally
affect that information - a fully trustworthy source.

Why should Iran and the US not have equal rights? Do you have something against Iran?

UN information is fitted for UN policy, UN policy
is fitted for UN members majority,

So... democracy is wrong?

UN members
majority on questions concerning Israel comes
from a multitude of always one-sided Arab and
Muslim countries

Arab and Muslim countries' views are "always one-sided" eh? Right. I guess that shows what your bias is.

countries (like those of the EU)
that care about their own economical and political relations
with the Arab and Muslim countries a lot more than some
tiny injustices they do

"Arab and Muslim countries" are unjust? Right.

 

[kat]

Your CMIP report is an older report. Why not post the latest report? Where CMIP stated "Despite the deterioration in the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians since September 2000, no negative changes were noted in the new textbooks with regard to the image of the Arabs, the description of the conflict, the presentation of Islam, questions of war and peace and education to tolerance and conciliation. On the contrary, the positive trends noted in the earlier report have, if anything, been strengthened."

 

[Adam]

Because the newer report is for textbooks introduced in the past couple of years. It doesn't apply to anyone over about eight years old. Everyone else learned what is described from the other reports.

 

[studentx]

Did the nazis change their schoolbooks defending the jews before the genocide and deportations? Nope, , they did exactly the opposite.
Again, prove that what the Israelis are doing is the same as what the nazis did, or apologize to mr Drag.

 

[drag]

Medeastjournal ? Hmm...
Quote:
"I am Baha(Arabic for splendor) and this is my personal political online journal."
The Internet is such a great place, you always find what you seek...

P.S. I even found some people who payed money for registering
warp technology patents on the US Patent Office site...

 

[drag]

Did the nazis change their schoolbooks defending the jews before the genocide and deportations? Nope, , they did exactly the opposite.
Again, prove that what the Israelis are doing is the same as what the nazis did, or apologize to mr Drag.

No need, were're not on a personal basis here.
Furthermore, I have no difficulty to understand such
opionions because I understand their causes.

 

[balkan]

amazing... going on 5 pages and only kat and adam has provided anything that wasn't subjective...
somebody should frame this thread and put it on display somewhere...

 

[Adam]

Did the nazis change their schoolbooks defending the jews before the genocide and deportations? Nope, , they did exactly the opposite.
Again, prove that what the Israelis are doing is the same as what the nazis did, or apologize to mr Drag.

Studentx, please read through this entire thread again. Carefully.

 

[Adam]

amazing... going on 5 pages and only kat and adam has provided anything that wasn't subjective...
somebody should frame this thread and put it on display somewhere...

I find it strange that a message board devoted primarily to fields requiring education is usually composed mostly of personal opinions. Generally I don't apply my own opinions, as I don't wish to increase that proportion. I usually prefer to simply supply data found here and there, and let people read it, but unfortunately they most often don't bother even reading it. People prefer to cling to assumptions and delusions. I am glad, however, that Kat actually joined me in supplying something other than a subjective opinion. It's a good start.

 

[loseyourname]

Israel is doing today what Germany did in the approach to WW2.

Whether or not this is your opinion I could care less, but it is certainly not a fact.

Again:

- Israel has not arrested all Palestinians everywhere in Israel and put them in ghettos.

- There are no forced-labor camps in Israel.

- All Palestinian businesses and assets have not been confiscated.

- Jews in Germany did not carry out terrorist attacks on German civilians. They did occasionally defend themselves after being forced into ghettos and being sent away to death camps by attacking military targets. To compare the two is ridiculous.

(These are all facts)

Now if you can hold back from insulting my intelligence for half a second, listen. The Palestinians and Israelis are both to blame in this conflict. I'm not trying to excuse any trespasses committed by the Israeli state. But it is ridiculous of you to suggest that Israel today is akin to Germany in the 30's. You do no service to the Palestinian people by misrepresenting their case.

 

[Adam]

Whether or not this is your opinion I could care less, but it is certainly not a fact.

Clearly you care enough to post a response, even if it is mere opinion and not backed up by facts.

- Israel has not arrested all Palestinians everywhere in Israel and put them in ghettos.

Nor had the NAZIs arrested all Jews everywhere and put them in ghettos.

- There are no forced-labor camps in Israel.

Yet.

- All Palestinian businesses and assets have not been confiscated.

Yet.

Now, in answer to the above three almost-points, I urge you to simply think about it. Ethnic cleansing is not an event. It is a process. Palestinians are being moved, portion by portion, into ghettos. They assets are being taken, piece by piece. Slowly, they are becoming an underclass, for most of whom only the most menial labour is available. As I said, it is not an instantaneous event, but a process. It is happening. The material I have provided demonstrates this quite clearly. I recommend you take the time to read it. You may learn something.

- Jews in Germany did not carry out terrorist attacks on German civilians. They did occasionally defend themselves after being forced into ghettos and being sent away to death camps by attacking military targets. To compare the two is ridiculous.

Ah, yeah they did. I have already provided information about this. Go back and read it. To continue arguing this point without reading the available information is to blindly argue from ignorance. Just read it.

Now if you can hold back from insulting my intelligence for half a second,

Insult what?

The Palestinians and Israelis are both to blame in this conflict.

The blame rests not on "Palestinians" at all, but on a small few of them, and also on the state of Israel.

But it is ridiculous of you to suggest that Israel today is akin to Germany in the 30's.

Please read the supplied material.

 

[hello3719]

LOL, Building a wall... reminds me of my kindergarden years. This is the most ridiculous and most retarded thing to do.This wall wil bring more problems and more anger among the Palestinians. Humans never learn from history, this is very sad. One might wonder if our leaders do really have brains and a conscience.

 

[drag]

I loved that exchange between Balkan and Adam, real funny,
I mean it...

I mean, this is like me arguing fevereshly about , say - what do you have
in Australia ? Environmental problems ?
I'd hear what Adam, for example, has to say, and then load him with Internet links that says totally different things (you can always find such things) - then it turns out I know better, while being half a world away.
Funny, isn't it ?

Links ? Fine:
http://www.yale.edu/yup/chapters/093454chap.htm
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0kv40
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Peace/patext.html
http://www.israel-wat.com/g7a_eng.htm
http://ksghome.harvard.edu/~.jstern.CSIA.KSG/pakistan.htm
http://www.likud.nl/extr253.html
http://www.google.co.il/search?q=Indonesia+Jihad+education&hl=iw&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&start=10&sa=N
http://www.freeworldacademy.com/globalleader/newwarcontent.htm
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_attack
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0ldc0
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0cc40
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0ia50
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_against_Israel_in_2000
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_against_Israel_in_2001
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_against_Israel_in_2002
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_against_Israel_in_2003
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_against_Israel_in_2003
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenyan_hotel_bombing
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover_Massacre

 

[drag]

LOL, Building a wall... reminds me of my kindergarden years. This is the most ridiculous and most retarded thing to do.This wall wil bring more problems and more anger among the Palestinians. Humans never learn from history, this is very sad. One might wonder if our leaders do really have brains and a conscience.

Did someone blow up and murder your kindergarden peers ?