- #71
hello3719
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no... i meant the wall
drag said:I loved that exchange between Balkan and Adam, real funny,
I mean it...
I mean, this is like me arguing fevereshly about , say - what do you have
in Australia ? Environmental problems ?
I'd hear what Adam, for example, has to say, and then load him with Internet links that says totally different things (you can always find such things) - then it turns out I know better, while being half a world away.
Funny, isn't it ?
Links ? Fine:
http://www.yale.edu/yup/chapters/093454chap.htm
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0kv40
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Peace/patext.html
http://www.israel-wat.com/g7a_eng.htm
http://ksghome.harvard.edu/~.jstern.CSIA.KSG/pakistan.htm
http://www.likud.nl/extr253.html
http://www.google.co.il/search?q=Indonesia+Jihad+education&hl=iw&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&start=10&sa=N
http://www.freeworldacademy.com/globalleader/newwarcontent.htm
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_attack
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0ldc0
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0cc40
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0ia50
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_against_Israel_in_2000
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_against_Israel_in_2001
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_against_Israel_in_2002
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_against_Israel_in_2003
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_against_Israel_in_2003
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenyan_hotel_bombing
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover_Massacre
Adam said:Stick to the facts.
note those "yet" you have written... the "yet" is obvious proof that israel haven't done like the germans did...Adam said:Nor had the NAZIs arrested all Jews everywhere and put them in ghettos.
Yet.
Yet.
Now, in answer to the above three almost-points, I urge you to simply think about it. Ethnic cleansing is not an event. It is a process. Palestinians are being moved, portion by portion, into ghettos. They assets are being taken, piece by piece. Slowly, they are becoming an underclass, for most of whom only the most menial labour is available. As I said, it is not an instantaneous event, but a process. It is happening. The material I have provided demonstrates this quite clearly. I recommend you take the time to read it. You may learn something.
Please read the supplied material.
And the word 'conservative' dictates the duration.Hurkyl said:I forgot to invoke Godwin's law.
Are you implying that the Omnipotent Adam created the UN website, among others?Prometheus said:Adam, I quite agree that drag should stick to your facts.
Actually the name is older than the first point at which the Jewish tribe is identified as a sociological entity (around 1200 BC).On a personal note, I wonder why you use a moniker that has such extreme Jewish connotations. Are you Jewish, or did you select it for some particular reason?
You're joking, yes? The IDF has killed thrice the number of civilians that Palestinian terrorists have killed in the past three years. Please read the pages to which I have linked. I mean it. READ THEM! It can only do you good.flippy said:The only time the Israeli's kill Palestinians is when THE ARMY needs to kill a terrorist which in turn potentially saves the lives of many more innocent people.
Well, there's an assertion. Now what about the basis?I find it humorous how Adam can be brainwashed by the media. He falls right into the trap of the liberals who prey on the ignorant.
I've lived most of my life around Melbourne, Australia. Do you suppose that means I know all about the Hoddle Street bombing? Does it mean I know the name and motive of the guy responsible? Does it mean I know how many people Victorian police have shot, and why, and how it was reported?My source of fact comes from experience. You see, I actually lived in Israel for a year and saw first hand what went on.
I know a dog who was hit by a car.I had friends that were in the areas of suicide bombings and had to be treated for shock. I know someone else who was shot and had like a 2% chance of survival.
Well, there's an assertion. Now what about the basis?This is clearly not a war over land, in fact the real "palestinians" are long assimilated into other nations.
Are you suggesting that religion and geography are so linked that we should have Muslims in Area A, Jews in Area B, Christians in Area C, et cetera?As for Muslims, they have plenty of land surrounding Israel.
Please read the links I have provided, particularly those regarding the history of the situation.They hand plenty of chances to get their land back, barak had offered them, peres did.
Some people are scared of spiders. What do your personal fears have to do with anything?I know what it feels like to get on a bus and have the thought in my mind that I could be blown up.
Yeah, because India and Pakistan get along so well...This wall at least can alleviate some of the anxiety of people living their everyday lives. BTW there are still many more walls that exist in teh world..India and Pakistan...The US and Mexico, walls don't create conflict, they minimize threat.
News.com.au, the BBC, the UN, the Washington Post, et cetera, are all "biased freelance journalists"? Sorry chum, but you really need to think a little. Read the information supplied. Think about the situation without your fear-driven bias. Then come back.And if youre going to get ur news from biased freelance journalists looking to brainwash you with their opinions and only present one side of the story, I can assure you that from my first hand experience actually living in the midst of it, that the press is unreliable and inaccurate and you better find a new source for your fictitious "facts."
Go back to Germany in 1937. The NAZIs hadn't done the ovens at Auschwitz... yet. However, they were in the process of moving toward those things. Right now, Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing. That is already happening. The IDF is already shooting Palestinian civilians all over the place. That is already happening. The segregation is a process, as I said, not an event, and it is happening. As I said, these are processes, not events, and they are processes which existed in Germany in the 1930s.balkan said:note those "yet" you have written... the "yet" is obvious proof that israel haven't done like the germans did...
It does indeed.just the simple fact that the madman sharon is still in charge says alot...
Is the ethnic cleansing still going on in Israel? Yes. Public access material provided by, or openly authorised by, the Israeli government is window dressing, and we can expect it to be all fluff and dandy. The situation will get worse, however. Just as Germany published lots of happy news, and told people everything was going great, while sinking the country deeper and deeper into crap.studentx said:Adam you still haven't answered my question. The nazis did not change their schoolbooks before the genocide, the Israelis do, so what's up with that?
Your emotional responses are caused by your own mind, and have nothing to do with me.Your comparison of Israelis to Nazis is an extremely upsetting remark,
The dissemination of information is constructive.one that deteriorates the conflict and brings nothing constructive,
1) By what right do you speak for anyone else? Did you take a poll to find out how many wonder as you assert?so many here rightfully wonder what is the point you are making and why are you making it?
When did I ever attack the Israelies, or support them?To rally support for the Israelis?
Pfft.It has to end here.
Adam said:Are you implying that the Omnipotent Adam created the UN website, among others?
Actually the name is older than the first point at which the Jewish tribe is identified as a sociological entity (around 1200 BC).
You asserted that the posts I have made thus far were my opinion only, and that I was presenting them as facts. I pointed out that I have provided information from the UN, news resources, Human Rights Watch, and other sources. I have not yet provided my personal opinion. Nice try.Prometheus said:Nice try. I am implying that you are making your opinion known, and that your opinion is not very popular here. You sound like you believe that your opinion is cut and dried fact. You do not seem to be aware that your opinion is an opinion.
Believe it or not, the languages of the current peoples of the Middle East did not spontaneously erupt one day. They evolved from other tongues, such as Akkadian, Phoenician, Sumerian, et cetera. The word "adam" seems to mean "earth" or such, and has been used in various forms in the Middle East for a very long time; yes, even predating the Israelites. One find in Syria contains tablets going back to the fourth millennium BC; one tablet there has the word "adamu" (though not in English script of course). There is the Akkadian "admu", meaning "child". Phoenician "dm", meaning "man". A dialect of Arabic has it meaning "servant". Basically, the word may come from many sources, and many of those sources have intertwined histories.Do you have a citation for this as well? Adam was not a name originally, of course. It is a Semitic reference to the origin of mankind.
Is this your typical condescending attitude? Or, are you trying your best to offer me your special insults with this foolish gibberish? This statement is uncalled for, it is unrelated to our discussion, and it is a feeble attempt to initiate your response with an insult. Shame on you.Adam said:Believe it or not, the languages of the current peoples of the Middle East did not spontaneously erupt one day.
And you wonder why people on this forum think so little of your ideas and your attitude. How blind can you be?Give it a try some day.
Your numeous citations here are evidence that you do have some ability. Your citations in prior posts are evidence to the same. It is your conclusions that are so poor, in my opinion. You draw conclusions that are not necessarily consistent with the facts.They evolved from other tongues, such as Akkadian, Phoenician, Sumerian, et cetera. The word "adam" seems to mean "earth" or such, and has been used in various forms in the Middle East for a very long time; yes, even predating the Israelites. One find in Syria contains tablets going back to the fourth millennium BC; one tablet there has the word "adamu" (though not in English script of course). There is the Akkadian "admu", meaning "child". Phoenician "dm", meaning "man". A dialect of Arabic has it meaning "servant". Basically, the word may come from many sources, and many of those sources have intertwined histories.
So no, it is not originally a Semitic reference to the origin of mankind.
Take a pill and relax, Dave. If you don't want me to outline very clearly what should be obvious, then don't make silly mistakes like the one to which I replied.Prometheus said:Is this your typical condescending attitude? Or, are you trying your best to offer me your special insults with this foolish gibberish? This statement is uncalled for, it is unrelated to our discussion, and it is a feeble attempt to initiate your response with an insult. Shame on you.
Actually I hadn't thought about it at all. I have no idea what the majority of users think of my posts, and I don't really care a lot. Most people are idiots, but most are also nice people. I don't expect everyone out there to be capable of reading information without emotional bias, and absorbing it at face value. I wish they would, but I don't expect it. Now that you mention it, however, did you take a poll regarding the opinions of other users here? If so, please provide me with the link to that thread, I'll check it out. If not, then I guess you are being very silly.And you wonder why people on this forum think so little of your ideas and your attitude. How blind can you be?
Well, gee, do you think?Your numeous citations here are evidence that you do have some ability.
Name a conclusion of mine whch is inconsistent with the facts. Demostrate this.It is your conclusions that are so poor, in my opinion. You draw conclusions that are not necessarily consistent with the facts.
The one fact I outlined is that the word "adam" existed prior to its use in a certain mythological use regarding the origin of the species. It is a very old word. The "seems" and "appears" refer to possible uses in earlier times. So... what's your point?Your citations do not support your conclusion in this case. You use the word "seems" and then subsequently treat this supposition as fact.
You appear to be imagining things that aren't there. My conclusion was only this: the word is older than the Hebrew language, older than the mythological use which you mentioned. The use you mentioned is one historical instance of a similar word, but certainly not the earliest. What is it you think you have refuted?The consonantal root dm relates to blood and to red, which is the color of blood. Adamah, a related form, means the Earth in Hebrew. The Earth in question was red clay, from which mankind was considered to have sprung. The a in adam is the first letter of the alphabet. This refers to the first. Adam means the first blood, the first of mankind, who arose from red clay that makes up the eath in that region.
I consider that what I have said here does not refute any of the evidence that you presented. However, it does refute your conclusion, which is not at all based on your own evidence.
Which conclusions?You have access to valuable information in the posts that you have made. Yet, your conclusions at times verge on the ridiculous.
Um... Please read this quote of yours again...Your foolish attempts to insult those who question you do not increase your reputation.
Most people are idiots, but most are also nice people. I don't expect everyone out there to be capable of reading information without emotional bias, and absorbing it at face value.
I am quite honest and straightforward. I do not hide my motives. It's not my fault if most people aren't very bright. It's just the way the world is. I'm not going to dumb-down my posts to suit others. They can simply read the information supplied and work a little. And if I refer to them as less than brilliant, it does not mean I don't like them. Most of my friends here are rather stupid, but they're ok people, and I have fun with them.Hurkyl said:Assuming you are correct, then alienating them will only strengthen their bias, making them even less likely to absorb it at face value. And quite honestly, I seriously consider this to be a possible motive for your posting style.
Adam said:Clearly you care enough to post a response, even if it is mere opinion and not backed up by facts.
Nor had the NAZIs arrested all Jews everywhere and put them in ghettos.
Yet. Yet.
Now, in answer to the above three almost-points, I urge you to simply think about it. Ethnic cleansing is not an event. It is a process. Palestinians are being moved, portion by portion, into ghettos. They assets are being taken, piece by piece. Slowly, they are becoming an underclass, for most of whom only the most menial labour is available. As I said, it is not an instantaneous event, but a process. It is happening. The material I have provided demonstrates this quite clearly. I recommend you take the time to read it. You may learn something.
Ah, yeah they did. I have already provided information about this. Go back and read it. To continue arguing this point without reading the available information is to blindly argue from ignorance. Just read it.
Insult what?
The blame rests not on "Palestinians" at all, but on a small few of them, and also on the state of Israel.
Please read the supplied material.
Barely.loseyourname said:They did by the start of the war. They certainly tried, at least. The official state policy was that Jews were subhuman and had no rights. The policy of Israel is nothing like that. Palestinians are still acknowledged as human beings with rights, legally speaking.
I meant precisely what I said. Israel is doing today many things which Germany did in the years leading up to WW2, along the lines of persecuting large numbers of people based on their ethnicity. Their ethnic cleansing activities mirror very closely what Germany was doing prior to WW2.Which is all I said. If you go back to the first page of this thread, you will find yourself saying "Israel is doing today what Germany did in the approach to WW2." If all you mean is that Israel has done several things that Germany did in the 30's, well so be it. So is the United States. It seemed clear to me that you are implying Israel means to perpetrate a holocaust against the Palestinians, which is not true.
Well, that is good. It improves my day to think that some people, at least, are aware of what is happening around them.I'm not going to read any of it. I'm already aware of most of what Israel has done.
The difference: Time. If things go badly. I hope things do not go badly.I don't dispute that Israel is doing things it shouldn't be doing, nor do I dispute that there are similarities between measures taken today and the measures taken against Jews by Nazi Germany. There still remains one major difference.
Did you read the pages about organised Jewish resistance groups striking factories and such throughout WW2?Everything you provided, that I read, was an example of Jews defending themselves against Nazi attempts to send them away.
Why several decades? I have provided information about it occurring over several years during WW2. Why would the period extend beyond the start and end of the NAZI regime? As for whether the attacks mentioned qualify as "terrorism", well, to me, it's when people deliberately attack civilians as a means of fighting a war or furthering some political, religious, or other such cause.Please provide me evidence showing that Jews in Germany carried out terrorist attacks on German civilians over a period of several decades and then we can compare the respective nations responses.
Start posting relevant information then, and maybe I'll revise my opinion.Is the second half of that sentence blank on your screen or do you honestly just think this is clever?
I also blame as filthy murdering scum every terrorist/resistance group which ever deliberately attacked and harmed civilians. Same goes for the bomber pilots and generals who destroyed Dresden and London and so many other civilian population centres.Thank you. I agree 100%. In Germany in the 30's, on the other hand, blame rested entirely on the Nazi regime.
I have two jobs, and some hobbies. No girlfriend at the moment. Hard to find one who can put up with me. However, I feel the need to know what is happening in the world, thus I normally watch three news shows in a row when I get home, and others at various other times.You know, believe it or not, some of us don't have the time to read ten news sources and go scouring the net every day. Some of us have jobs and school and girlfriends and hobbies and interests. I'll get to it if I have a chance, but no promises.
I meant precisely what I said. Israel is doing today many things which Germany did in the years leading up to WW2, along the lines of persecuting large numbers of people based on their ethnicity. Their ethnic cleansing activities mirror very closely what Germany was doing prior to WW2.
1) Yes, the Jews in Germany during WW2 had an organised resistance.loseyourname said:Let me clarify. Obviously I can't say for certain the Israel is not planning a holocaust on the Palestinian people, but it is a safe bet they are not. Several reasons at least:
- They would not be able to. The Jews in Nazi Germany had no organized resistance nor any foreign support, whereas the Palestinians have both.
- The US would withdraw its support if they did. There would be no choice.
- Israel has no interest in doing this. All Israel wants to do is partition the nation. It wants to clearly define Palestinian land and keep them confined to this land. Whatever the motive for this, it doesn't amount to a desire to see an entire ethnic group wiped off the face of the planet.
Hurkyl said:What you are not saying is what you are clearly trying to imply. Why you don't try stating what you are trying to imply, and back that up?
Adam said:2) Israel is already engaged in ethnic cleansing.
Actually, as far as I remember the excerpts I read,flippy said:You want basis? Look in the Koran. The Muslims are taught that if they kill Jews while killing themselves then they will go straight to heaven and get a bunch of women up there.
And some of us don't have to. Personal experience andloseyourname said:You know, believe it or not, some of us don't have the time to read ten news sources and go scouring the net every day.
Really? Please show me the section. http://www.quraan.com/index.aspxflippy said:You want basis? Look in the Koran. The Muslims are taught that if they kill Jews while killing themselves then they will go straight to heaven and get a bunch of women up there.
studentx said:prove please, and don't give me 25 links where i have to spend hours searching