Musical Chills: Do You Experience Them?

[billiards]

I get the musical chills. In particular with live music.

Interestingly, at a recent lecture I attended, the mathematician Marcus Du Sautoy compared his experience of musical chills to the chills he got when uncovering mathematical beauty. He said that most people can hear a piece of beautiful music and experience chills, but he can get the same feeling from just looking at a beautiful equation, and if he discovers an equation then that feeling is magnified greatly.

 

[rhody]

Being the scientific geek that I am, I would normally do the research and post, but I am curious of the brain areas, sensory maps involved. If anyone has such knowledge it would be appreciated.

Hi Fuzzy, I am handling organizing Mom's house in Colorado after her passing last week. I guess I just missed this place and had to post, lol.

Rhody...

 

[fuzzyfelt]

Hi Rhody, pleased to see you!

I don't have anything off hand, but will have a look, unless anyone else has anything. I've been meaning to look into Panksepp again and others mentioned in the papers in the OP.

I won't edit now, but I shouldn't have said "emotion" in my last post, I should have just mentioned there may be more than one thing discussed here.

 

[Loren Booda]

Anyone get a haunting musical "deja vu" feeling?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

It happens to me often and with asll sorts of music. I enjoy listening to all sorts of music though.

I do not play or sing and know little about music technically so some of my comments will be based on person wordings rather than proper technical terms.

To take my turn at sharing an evocative "chiller"...


I would say that I have a particular preference for female vocals, though this is in no way exclusive, and Nina has just has it.

As I have been scanning through the thread I have been considering what it is that may give me the "chills", the first and most appropriate response in my mind is "anticipation". Build ups and change ups, most significantly, as well as particularly evocative sounds and combinations of sounds.

Turbo mentions mostly blues which (if it is good) is built on the unconventional riffs and evocative lyrics.

Lisa mentioned "Zombie" which is chock full of contrast and evocative vocals, I took the time to listen to it for the first time in a while now and it definitely gave me "chills" particularly the vocals (note that this may be due to my female vocal affinity).

Galteeth mentions punk, which is a favourite of mine, and there is hardly a genre of music more geared towards build ups, change ups, and evocative vocals. There are also lyrics to consider (Galteeth and I have a favourite band in common and I am thinking that the partiality has to do with lyrics) but I will get to that later.

Someone mentioned a partiality to Beethoven who I believe was a very intense composer who apparently often broke his instruments seeking after the music he could "feel".

Then the counter point of Mozart who perhaps had a more subtle virtuosity akin the elegance of a mathematical formula which is perhaps more accessible to the more proficient and the connoisseurs. While I have not such knowledge of music myself I know that I have a great appreciation of subtle wit and get similar "chills" when I recognize this sort elegance in the written word. Satire is a great favourite of mine.

The juxtaposition of certain ideas and the turning of an elegant phrase are things I admire very much and I find that when I may not find a particular musical quaility of a song that strikes me it is often in the words. Galteeth and I both appreciate a band called Bad Religion whose lead singer, Greg Graffin, has a PhD and teaches at MIH's college. His lyrics are often very insightful and strike at ideas in just so many words.

An interesting genre of music is Rap. Good rap has witty lyrics and a musicality in the lyrics that blends and integrates beautifully with the music and beat which, if done well, should work on contrast and anticipation. See Gold Digger by Kanye West [feat. Jamie Foxx immitating Ray Charles (a great exploiter of contrast, highs, lows, ect)].

 

[turbo]

Strange Fruit is another one.

Southern trees bear strange fruit,
Blood on the leaves and blood at the root,
Black bodies swinging in the southern breeze,
Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees.
Pastoral scene of the gallant south,
The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth,
Scent of magnolias, sweet and fresh,
Then the sudden smell of burning flesh.
Here is fruit for the crows to pluck,
For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck,
For the sun to rot, for the trees to drop,
Here is a strange and bitter crop.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Ska's primary feature is the off beat which inherently depends on an anticipatory response.


I was going to link Samuel L Jackson singing Stack-O-Lee but there is too much profanity in it to that. A great example of anticipation and free form in blues though.

 

[fuzzyfelt]

Rhody, I’ll look further, but this is a start.

This gives some background, including “chills”-

'Some authors speculate...“there is an even deeper mystery within brain organization to which all these cognitive issues
are subservient” (Panksepp & Bernatzky, 2002, p. 134).'

'Moreover, the findings of
studies seem to converge in suggesting the involvement of “limbic and paralimbic structures
(such as amygdala, hippocampus, parahippocampal gyrus, insula, temporal poles, ventral
striatum, orbitofrontal cortex, and the cingulate cortex)” (Koelsch, 2005, p. 412) in musical
emotion processing. Note that none of these structures appears to be specialized exclusively
for music. However, the existence of music-specific modules for emotion processing remains
a plausible hypothesis for future research (Griffiths et al., 2004).'

'To summarize, the view of musical affect as subordinate to cognition is challenged by
the results of investigations into the neural correlates of musical experience that explicitly
address emotion. Whether emotional responses precede cognitions, or vice versa, or if music
(including aspects of emotion processing) represents an independent modality, are matters of
ongoing debate (Peretz & Zatorre, 2005). In any case, music seems an “excellent paradigm to explore the interactions between neocortically mediated cognitive processes and subcortically mediated affective responses” (Peretz & Sloboda, 2005, p. 410).'
http://www.baltic-imaging-center.de/images/130_135_Kreutz_Lotze_2007.pdf

Abstract of the Koelsch 2005 study mentioned above-
The present study used pleasant and unpleasant music to evoke emotion and functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) to determine neural correlates of emotion processing. Unpleasant (permanently dissonant) music contrasted with pleasant (consonant) music showed activations of amygdala, hippocampus, parahippocampal gyrus, and temporal poles. These structures have previously been implicated in the emotional processing of stimuli with (negative) emotional valence; the present data show that a cerebral network comprising these structures can be activated during the perception of auditory (musical) information. Pleasant (contrasted to unpleasant) music showed activations of the inferior frontal gyrus (IFG, inferior Brodmann's area (BA) 44, BA 45, and BA 46), the anterior superior insula, the ventral striatum, Heschl's gyrus, and the Rolandic operculum. IFG activations appear to reflect processes of music-syntactic analysis and working memory operations. Activations of Rolandic opercular areas possibly reflect the activation of mirror-function mechanisms during the perception of the pleasant tunes. Rolandic operculum, anterior superior insula, and ventral striatum may form a motor-related circuitry that serves the formation of (premotor) representations for vocal sound production during the perception of pleasant auditory information. In all of the mentioned structures, except the hippocampus, activations increased over time during the presentation of the musical stimuli, indicating that the effects of emotion processing have temporal dynamics; the temporal dynamics of emotion have so far mainly been neglected in the functional imaging literature. Hum Brain Mapp 2005. © 2005 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/110575853/abstract

 

[fuzzyfelt]

Anyone get a haunting musical "deja vu" feeling?

Four inter-related threads?

 

[fuzzyfelt]

I get the musical chills. In particular with live music.

Interestingly, at a recent lecture I attended, the mathematician Marcus Du Sautoy compared his experience of musical chills to the chills he got when uncovering mathematical beauty. He said that most people can hear a piece of beautiful music and experience chills, but he can get the same feeling from just looking at a beautiful equation, and if he discovers an equation then that feeling is magnified greatly.

Yes, there seem to be other inducers including maths.

 

[fuzzyfelt]

Thanks, Stats for your re-cap and you and Turbo for more genres and music.

I had thought about ska and reggae when Oubache mentioned percussion, and couldn't decide when I listened to it if it was only the percussion that gave me chills so didn't write about it. Thanks for bringing it up.

 

[fuzzyfelt]

Rhody, in my haste I hadn't noticed the first paper I linked to was published. I think it could have what you were after.

While I have not such knowledge of music myself I know that I have a great appreciation of subtle wit and get similar "chills" when I recognize this sort elegance in the written word. Satire is a great favourite of mine.

The juxtaposition of certain ideas and the turning of an elegant phrase are things I admire very much and I find that when I may not find a particular musical quaility of a song that strikes me it is often in the words. Galteeth and I both appreciate a band called Bad Religion whose lead singer, Greg Graffin, has a PhD and teaches at MIH's college. His lyrics are often very insightful and strike at ideas in just so many words.

An interesting genre of music is Rap. Good rap has witty lyrics and a musicality in the lyrics that blends and integrates beautifully with the music and beat which, if done well, should work on contrast and anticipation. See Gold Digger by Kanye West [feat. Jamie Foxx immitating Ray Charles (a great exploiter of contrast, highs, lows, ect)].

Others have mentioned other inducers, like maths on a maths and physics forum. Very interesting that you mention literature, and I recall you to be an avid reader.

Just btw, the comment about satire, and mentions of anticipation took me off on a tangent about irony and humour and to a Panksepp paper about rats squealing at 50hz in laughing anticipation of being tickled.

 

[leetchaos]

I too can frequently experience this 'frisson' when listening to music. I am male, age 22. I played music semi-seriously for 6 years when I was younger and listened to a hell of a lot of Classical music at the time. Nowadays I listen to much different music. Today I had one of the best experiences with of my life with frisson. I have to say it came really out of the blue, nothing especially emotional going on today or anything.

It feels like waves of electricity on the surface of my skin, it starts at the base of my neck and very quickly radiates out down my arms, back and legs. It takes about .5 to 3 seconds to fully radiate out and dissipate when it reaches my toes and wrists. Today while listening to a particular song it happened about 15-20 times in fairly rapid succession. Near the end it became so overwhelming I almost started crying and my eyes welled up. The song I was listening to was very upbeat not sad at all and the tears felt like tears of happiness/joy, it really was a skin orgasm.

I can't say I've experienced frisson from anything other than music, possibly but I can't recall a specific incident.

Thanks for the info, interesting read on those research documents

 

[fuzzyfelt]

I forgot to respond to mentions of the female voice. Generally it seems higher sounds a more likely to provoke responses.

That is a great description of a great experience of chills, leetchaos, and not at all, it was fun,

and thanks everyone for all the help and suggestions!

 

[Andre]

One more then, a new chilling experience for me,

I wasn't even aware of the existence of this composition. The Piet Hein Rhapsodie of Peter van Anrooy. So maybe one cannot accuse me of too much patriotism causing the chills.

Piet Hein was a most prominent national hero.

The music is inspired by an century's old and well known folk song performed here in a lovely way (ignore the first 27 seconds, that's something else).

Edit: fixed link

 

[fuzzyfelt]

Nice, thanks.

 

[rhody]

A friend sent me this link, (yeah, right, I swear they did, honest).

Takes the concept of "chills" to a whole new level:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20010797-10391704.html"

Carrellas is featured in a new "Strange Sex" series on TLC, but her brand of sexual pleasure may not be as strange as one might think. Researchers at Rutgers University have been studying the mind-body-sex connection, and have found that there seems to be documented evidence of Carrellas' claims. They put her in an MRI, had her "think off" and found that the parts of her brain that should light up when she climaxes did just that.

The idea of thinking yourself to orgasm is not new. In the early 1970's, the Masters and Johnson research team documented the strong connection between sexuality and thought.

The connection is particularly strong in women, says Dr. Ian Kerner, author and sex therapist. "The brain is the most powerful sex organ," he says. Men, he adds, have a much harder time making themselves climax without any touch whatsoever, but there are documented cases in women.

and

Carrellas, who prefers the gentler term "breath and energy orgasm," has a different opinion.

"Anyone can learn this," she says. You just have to un-teach yourself what you've probably absorbed all your life," she explains. It starts with our first experiences touching ourselves as kids.

"When we are young, we learn the 'quiet and quick' rule - so that we don't get caught. And the only way to climax that way is to hold your breath." But actually, she says, one can experience much richer, much more satisfying orgasms by breathing deeply, which is one of the techniques she uses to "think off."

Carrellas, who is in a relationship, doesn't use breath and energy to the exclusion of traditional sex. "My definition of what sex is has expanded so that genital sex is just one part of the repertoire," she says. Anyway, she says, you can think off with a partner. One way is to hold hands, maintain eye contact, and breathe together, fully clothed.

"It can be quite mind-blowing," she says. Carrellas not only practices this at home, she guest lectures at colleges. "I want young people to have more safer-sex options," she

Rhody...

 

[fuzzyfelt]

Thanks, Rhody.

 

[donwado1]

Hi

Have been investigating and writing quite a bit about the chills. You get them from music and TRUTH. Google---the good chills---and you will see alot. Don

 

[fuzzyfelt]

Hi Don, I guess there are all sorts of interpretations.

 

[lisab]

Hi Don, I guess there are all sorts of interpretations.

That gave me chills

 

[fuzzyfelt]

 

[turbo]

I still get the chills watching MLK's "I have a Dream" speech. Music often evokes a thrill for me, but sometimes a compelling vision, well-expressed, can do something similar.

 

[fuzzyfelt]

I certainly feel the same, Turbo.

 

[rhody]

Thanks, Rhody.

Am I in the dog house now ?

I am going to try to dig up some valid scientific evidence for this, not just one's woman's opinion. Who knows, this woman may have wanted her 15 minutes of fame and got it.

Rhody...

 

[fuzzyfelt]

Good, Rhody, and no, just at a loss for a response.

 

[Danger]

I guess my brain is changing somehow.

I certainly hope so.
(I could leave it at that and let you consider it an insult, but I will elaborate.)
Every experience that you go through, all of which you learn from, alters your brain structure. Falling off of a bike, cramming for an exam, realizing that the peculiar 'whizzing' sound means that someone is shooting at you... all strengthen synaptic connections. There isn't any "structural" change. (That is so not the right term, but I'm going to use it because I can't think of the proper one.) It won't show up on an X-ray or a CAT scan. Maybe on a PET or MRI machine, but I don't know enough about them to say. Basically, something that shows just neuronal structure won't notice. Something that measures oxygen or glucose uptake will.
So now to explain my first sentence in simple terms: if your brain isn't changing, you are dead. The intent of that opening was to say that I hope you are still alive. If not, your computer has some serious explaining to do about the post even existing.
By the bye, I noticed after beginning this response that I slept through about 4 pages of responses. If I have duplicated anyone's thoughts herein, my apologies.

 

[rhody]

I certainly hope so.
(I could leave it at that and let you consider it an insult, but I will elaborate.)
Every experience that you go through, all of which you learn from, alters your brain structure. Falling off of a bike, cramming for an exam, realizing that the peculiar 'whizzing' sound means that someone is shooting at you... all strengthen synaptic connections. There isn't any "structural" change. (That is so not the right term, but I'm going to use it because I can't think of the proper one.) It won't show up on an X-ray or a CAT scan. Maybe on a PET or MRI machine, but I don't know enough about them to say. Basically, something that shows just neuronal structure won't notice. Something that measures oxygen or glucose uptake will.
So now to explain my first sentence in simple terms: if your brain isn't changing, you are dead. The intent of that opening was to say that I hope you are still alive. If not, your computer has some serious explaining to do about the post even existing.
By the bye, I noticed after beginning this response that I slept through about 4 pages of responses. If I have duplicated anyone's thoughts herein, my apologies.

Yeah Danger,

I could have used a better choice of words in https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=2784486&postcount=43". It is good to see someone pays close attention to what you post.

when I said:

BTW, this never happened till reading, "The Brain that Changed Itself", I can't put my finger on the exact cause or causes, I just know for sure it is happening now and has never happened before. I guess my brain is changing somehow. I kind of like it but find it a bit weird at times.

After reading the book, twice now, redlining it and taking notes, I am fairly convinced that the areas in my brain have been remapped, (which is what I meant by, "changing somehow") and as you state above, "strengthen synaptic connections".

In addition, to strengthening the ones I have there is sufficient evidence that new synaptic connections are being created. This process can takes place in as little as three days and occurs in two stages. I plan to cover this in detail in a new thread soon. In addition, since the neuroplastic change is competitive in nature, excess neurons are pruned, and the signals across existing ones are strengthened. A pretty amazing adaptation.

The phenomenon of chills started for me I would say in the April time frame when I was posting in the synesthesia thread, and as time has progressed only gotten stronger. I guess months of fairly regular focused concentration, study and posting have made this possible. It was serendipidious that I just so happened to be reading a book that explains how and why this happens. All I can say for sure is that I plan to keep up this practice, because I enjoy the feeling I get from it.

The chapter on worry and anxiety in the book also had something to do with it because, when you worry or obsess over something, you can't possibly feel good at the same time. Three parts of the brain are involved when you worry or obsess, the orbital frontal cortex, cingulate gyrus, and caudate nucleus, the gearshift that allows thoughts to flow from one thought to the next. When you focus on a new activity, you keep the caudate from getting stuck, by growing new circuits in it. When this change occurs the frontal cortex becomes less active, the caudate nucleus allows the gearshift to work normally. Once improved the firing in a hyperactive way (the locked condition) is vastly improved, and you are no longer stuck with worrisome or obsessive thoughts. I think this is the biggest benefit I have seen and I really love the feeling. I have been a worrier all my life. Now, this has been vastly improved as well as focus and concentration with repeated practice since April. Sorry to take this thread off topic but I thought it important to discuss.

Rhody...

 

[Danger]

when you worry or obsess over something, you can't possibly feel good at the same time.

I am actually going to respectfully disagree with that particular statement based upon personal experience. (A lot of personal experience... more personal experience than a mere mortal should expect to live through...) The plasticity of the brain is truly astounding.
Anyhow, I'm a bit too inebriated right now to continue with this topic, so I'm going to bail out. I find your posts very interesting, though, and would like to read the book that you mentioned.
If I had the intellectual capacity right now to distinguish between my *** and my amygdala, I would continue. Unfortunately, that ain't the case.

 

[donwado1]

Hi Don, I guess there are all sorts of interpretations.

So what do you think? A happenstance occurance when one electrial cord hits another in the brain. Did you read any of the writing? Disagree? I am confused by "I guess there are all sorts of interpretations." Enlighten me to what you are saying. Thanks. Don

 

[donwado1]

Yes, there seem to be other inducers including maths.

MY guess is the equation had truth and he felt it. don

 

[donwado1]

I too can frequently experience this 'frisson' when listening to music. I am male, age 22. I played music semi-seriously for 6 years when I was younger and listened to a hell of a lot of Classical music at the time. Nowadays I listen to much different music. Today I had one of the best experiences with of my life with frisson. I have to say it came really out of the blue, nothing especially emotional going on today or anything.

It feels like waves of electricity on the surface of my skin, it starts at the base of my neck and very quickly radiates out down my arms, back and legs. It takes about .5 to 3 seconds to fully radiate out and dissipate when it reaches my toes and wrists. Today while listening to a particular song it happened about 15-20 times in fairly rapid succession. Near the end it became so overwhelming I almost started crying and my eyes welled up. The song I was listening to was very upbeat not sad at all and the tears felt like tears of happiness/joy, it really was a skin orgasm.

I can't say I've experienced frisson from anything other than music, possibly but I can't recall a specific incident.


Thanks for the info, interesting read on those research documents

To me, the chakras open to the divine and you are one with the divine,even for a few moments,until the chills dissapate.

No scientific proof---science has not, to my knowledge, done much. Don


I get a mesage from the site here that my message is too short. Trying to respond.

 

[donwado1]

I too can frequently experience this 'frisson' when listening to music. I am male, age 22. I played music semi-seriously for 6 years when I was younger and listened to a hell of a lot of Classical music at the time. Nowadays I listen to much different music. Today I had one of the best experiences with of my life with frisson. I have to say it came really out of the blue, nothing especially emotional going on today or anything.

It feels like waves of electricity on the surface of my skin, it starts at the base of my neck and very quickly radiates out down my arms, back and legs. It takes about .5 to 3 seconds to fully radiate out and dissipate when it reaches my toes and wrists. Today while listening to a particular song it happened about 15-20 times in fairly rapid succession. Near the end it became so overwhelming I almost started crying and my eyes welled up. The song I was listening to was very upbeat not sad at all and the tears felt like tears of happiness/joy, it really was a skin orgasm.

I can't say I've experienced frisson from anything other than music, possibly but I can't recall a specific incident.

Thanks for the info, interesting read on those research documents

Some music that gives me the chills:

Conquest of Paradise

Et les oiseaux chantaient

May it be

deliver me

Try------some old ones...and a new spiritual band here to here at the end


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_eU...01BC933F9&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=4

And Cat Stephens “Can’t Keep it in” at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W_SGoBFJxs&feature=related

www.hereiihere.com-----play[/URL] all the way through---slow at first----"Holy" track 2

let me know what you think---Don

also...words...at

[MEDIA=youtube]PbUtL_0vAJk[/MEDIA] Martin Luther I had a dream
and Obama’s “A more perfect union” speech found on that same page to the right.

 

[brainstorm]

I wonder if music can give you chills the first time you listen to it, unless it evokes some past emotional-connotation. My point is that I don't think the chills are a direct result of the music itself as much as they have to do with cognitive-emotional associations it evokes. Anyone think otherwise?

 

[donwado1]

I wonder if music can give you chills the first time you listen to it, unless it evokes some past emotional-connotation. My point is that I don't think the chills are a direct result of the music itself as much as they have to do with cognitive-emotional associations it evokes. Anyone think otherwise?

Sure, first time and many times afterwards. The chills are not emotional in my opinion. I do not understand " cognitive-emotional associations it evokes." TRUTH works and music. I can invoke the chills at will also. Not as strong as some music and especially music with TRUTH. Google good chills and you will find me.

Try...
Music

Stevie Windwood’s “Finer things” at

Cat Stephens “Oh Very Young” at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_eU...01BC933F9&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=4

And Cat Stephens “Can’t Keep it in” at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W_SGoBFJxs&feature=related

Peter Cetera

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok2Jyjtm698&feature=PlayList&p=E6E06D9C241B566B&index=0&playnext=1

Ritchie Havens—Woodstock Original


Famous Speeches/Truth

Martin Luther I had a dream
and Obama’s “A more perfect union” speech found on that same page to the right.


Most all give me continual chills. Old? music---let me know what you thinkThanks, Don