Our Beautiful Universe - Photos and Videos

[chemisttree]

I’ve found it is very difficult to get high magnification (small exit pupil) shots with the cameraphone. I start really having trouble once the exit pupil gets to <1mm.

How do I choose an eyepiece that will give me 1mm exit pupil and larger?

One way to compute magnification is to divide the objective diameter by the exit pupil. For an 80mm scope with a 1mm exit pupil, that works out to 80x.

One of my 80mm scopes has a 455mm focal length. The common way to determine Magnification is to divide objective focal length by eyepiece focal length. So, to determine the eyepiece focal length that will give me a 1 mm exit pupil,

80 = 455/x; x= 455/80 = 5.6

Another 80mm scope I use has a fl of 1200mm. The eyepiece that will give me a 1mm exit pupil is,

80 = 1200/x; x= 1200/80 = 15

So with one scope, I can use a 5.6mm eyepiece and above (longer) and with the other I can use only 15mm and above.

My C-6 (152mm objective) has a 1525mm focal length. A 1mm exit pupil for that is ~152x. (152mm obj/1mm pupil)

152 = 1525/x; x = 1525/15= ~10
For that scope I can only use 10mm and above eyepieces.

 

[Andy Resnick]

Was this taken with <1 minute subs?

Yeah, with that declination and focal length I think I was taking 10 second individual exposures.

 

[bruha]

Hi, here is two Jupiter images from last night. I use phone camera with Hyp. eyepiece 8 mm. As I understand calculation , with my 600 mm scope f.l. and 120 mm diameter I get 120/(600/8)= 1.6 mm pupil diameter which is to much...

 

[Drakkith]

Yeah, with that declination and focal length I think I was taking 10 second individual exposures.

Eww! Someone get this man a proper tracking mount asap!

 

[Andy Resnick]

Eww! Someone get this man a proper tracking mount asap!

Nah, the mount is fine and operating normally, I would need an autotracker to improve the integration times. That would then introduce a whole slew of electronic equipment that I have to deal with during setup, and I choose to deal with as little as possible :).

Obviously I can acquire longer individual frames by either 1) using a shorter focal length or 2) imaging objects at higher (lower?) declination- closer to Polaris.

I mean, it's really all about being outside, right?

 

[chemisttree]

Do you think the mount, a GM-8 I believe, has tracking errors that can be guided out? Maybe it’s just a small polar misalignment? <15 sec seems really short for that mount, unguided.

 

[Andy Resnick]

Do you think the mount, a GM-8 I believe, has tracking errors that can be guided out? Maybe it’s just a small polar misalignment? <15 sec seems really short for that mount, unguided.

I've worked this issue for some time and for me, I've reached the (tracking) performance limit of my system. I've tried manual guiding and while it does slightly improve tracking, the improvement does not seem to be worth the effort.

I think my results speak for themselves, frankly.

 

[chemisttree]

I think my results speak for themselves, frankly.

There’s never been any doubt about that!

 

[Drakkith]

Do you think the mount, a GM-8 I believe, has tracking errors that can be guided out? Maybe it’s just a small polar misalignment? <15 sec seems really short for that mount, unguided.

I've worked this issue for some time and for me, I've reached the (tracking) performance limit of my system. I've tried manual guiding and while it does slightly improve tracking, the improvement does not seem to be worth the effort.

I think my results speak for themselves, frankly.

Well, the GM-8 seems comparable to my Orion Atlas EQ-G, and autoguiding greatly improved my images. Of course, there is that added complexity and more of a chance for things to go wrong when shooting. Nothing worse than losing 30-60 minutes worth of subs because your guider wasn't secured tight enough or something.

 

[bruha]

Hi and sorry, concerning my last Jupiter images , I mean maybe to small pupil diameter 1.6 mm-that is right I hope.

 

[Drakkith]

Hi and sorry, concerning my last Jupiter images , I mean maybe to small pupil diameter 1.6 mm-that is right I hope.

Why would it be too small?

 

[bruha]

Oh,
chemistree reporting under pupil diameter 1 mm big problem with caamera phone imaging.
If you see my Jupiter images , I think its probbaly needs still bigger pup. diameter, but I quess it as well depend on used camera phone parameters isn't it? Hi and lot of succes

 

[Drakkith]

Oh,
chemistree reporting under pupil diameter 1 mm big problem with caamera phone imaging.
If you see my Jupiter images , I think its probbaly needs still bigger pup. diameter, but I quess it as well depend on used camera phone parameters isn't it? Hi and lot of succes

Ah, okay. Well, your pictures look like they're suffering from blurring. Probably from your hand shaking during the exposure. I believe they make accessories that will allow you to attach your phone to an eyepiece so you don't have to hold it up.

 

[bruha]

Hi, this images are (unfortunately) made with phone eyepiece adapter and delay 5 sec. But I found that this delay is not enough for stabilise scope. I think that problem is in my bad tripod...

 

[Drakkith]

Hi, this images are (unfortunately) made with phone eyepiece adapter and delay 5 sec. But I found that this delay is not enough for stabilise scope. I think that problem is in my bad tripod...

It's possible. I wish I had some advice for you.

 

[bruha]

Hi, maybe these are little better (GIMP sharpened and unnoised..)

 

[chemisttree]

I’ve not yet been able to get a good planetary image with the cameraphone. Mine look just like yours, Bruha.

 

[Andy Resnick]

Hi, this images are (unfortunately) made with phone eyepiece adapter and delay 5 sec. But I found that this delay is not enough for stabilise scope. I think that problem is in my bad tripod...

I’ve not yet been able to get a good planetary image with the cameraphone. Mine look just like yours, Bruha.

I've been lurking on this discussion for a while b/c I had nothing to suggest, but I may now have something. I'm not that familiar with camera phone capabilities- for both of you, do you know what the shutter speed was for these images?

 

[chemisttree]

I've been lurking on this discussion for a while b/c I had nothing to suggest, but I may now have something. I'm not that familiar with camera phone capabilities- for both of you, do you know what the shutter speed was for these images?

No, I don’t. I’m using an iPhone6. I can’t control the ISO or the shutter speed with the Apple camera app. I CAN control the focus and lock it along with the ‘autoexposure’ which I take to mean some combination of shutter speed, ISO and gain.

Thanks for the question! It has me thinking I’ve been shortsighted for not using a third party app like Camera+ 2 to get complete control of my cameraphone. Downloading it tonight. Test it on Jupiter and I’ll report back.

 

[chemisttree]

Jupiter tonight through a C-6, afocal with a 15mm plossl equipped with a Baader contrast booster and moon filter (stacked), iPhone 6 with Procamera control. 1/45s at ISO 250. Thanks, Andy Resnick!

Next I’m going to figure out how to take a video and stack frames...

Bru, take control of your cameraphone with an app like Camera+ 2 or Procamera!

 

[DennisN]

Bru, take control of your cameraphone with an app like Camera+ 2 or Procamera!

I agree, using a good camera app is a good idea.

I have an Android phone and I use Open Camera. This makes me able to manually set ISO, exposure and many other things like settings for multiple shots*. And shoot in RAW (DNG). And I can also use manual focus if I want to. There are quite many other camera apps for Android, but I've stuck to Open Camera.

* i.e. taking multiple photos (which I did with Jupiter and Saturn, though the films I shot gave better results). In Open Camera I can choose between different number of photos to take (e.g. x2, x5, x10, x20, x40 etc, and "infinite", which can be stopped by the user ), and also set the delay time between the photos (which also can be used for doing time lapses).

I filmed the planets in max resolution available (which was 4K, 3 840 x 2 160) and in 30 fps (frames per second), which was max for my phone/sd card. But even higher fps ought to better if possible, since there will be more frames to stack later.

I'm a newbie when shooting the planets, and the photos I've posted here before are my first experiments. I think I will try with lower ISO and/or shorter exposure the next time, since Jupiter and Saturn appeared quite bright in the original movies and photos. I might also try using a filter, which I have a couple of.

EDIT: Oh, by the way, I also use a delay (3 s) when shooting, to remove vibrations. But I've also noticed that the movements in the atmosphere have a HUGE* impact when you have zoomed in on a planet, so it's a very good idea to take MANY photos or film the object, and then let the stacking program take care of it, including removing bad ("unlucky"/distorted) frames.

In my case I now use (1) PIPP to prepare the material for stacking (2) AutoStakkert or RegiStax for stacking and last (3) Adobe Lightroom for postprocessing, where I can remove chromatic/atmospheric aberration and also do many other adjustments.

* Edit 2: And the atmosphere movement can also make focusing more difficult than it already is with a vibrating mount . Personally I have got a better tripod than I used to have, and I have also done some modifications on it which has made it more stable. I've also been toying with the idea of building a motorized focusing mechanism, using a small dc motor (in some way attached to the focuser) which then is controlled by a hand control with four buttons...(coarse focus +/- and fine focus +/-).
I might try doing it some day.

 

[Andy Resnick]

<snip>But I've also noticed that the movements in the atmosphere have a HUGE* impact when you have zoomed in on a planet,<snip>

That's what I was thinking- clear-air turbulence causes major problems for me when using 'moderate' shutter speeds- I need a shutter speed < 1/250s to really get a clean, un-distorted, image of the moon and planets.

 

[chemisttree]

So, here is a greatly enlarged version of Jupiter that I took last night. You can see that there is pretty good detail in the center of the image but the edges are a mess. JPEG does that as well as poor seeing. Clouds appeared just after this was taken so seeing was fairly poor. Must take either TIFF or RAW images to eliminate the JPEG artifact. Seeing can only be dealt with using a stack of many images. Another try scheduled tonight.

 

[chemisttree]

Hi, maybe these are little better (GIMP sharpened and unnoised..)

These clearly show Jupiter’s belts and look like they have promise. The pupil size is fine for these. The only advice I have is to try a faster shutter speed. Something like @AndyResnick suggests if you can manage it. Your images and mine both show seeing and JPEG artifacts that obscure details.

 

[DennisN]

Another try scheduled tonight.

Good luck! We have reasonably clear skies here now, and I may have a go at the Moon later. I'm still looking for that black monolith, I haven't found it yet.

 

[chemisttree]

So the video attempt was a bust since I can't control exposure during video or I haven't learned how to in Procamera. Maybe there is a video app for the iPhone that let's me control that but I haven't looked into it. So, it's just RAW+JPEG images tonight. The iPhone camera was set to ISO 320 and 1/503 sec. 16 images taken and the JPEG's were processed in PIPP and 15 of the "best" were stacked in Registax 6. Very light wavelet application... almost none at all. Levels in Photoshop CS2. C6 + 15mm plossl with a Baader Contrast Booster filter. Really soft, perhaps poor focus. Almost no color at all was captured except the red/blue of the planet's margin. Atmospheric refraction I'm sure! Not worth preprocessing all the RAW images in my opinion. Is that the GRS in the lower band? It is supposed to be crossing the center of the planet tonight at 11:19 local time and these shots were taken at around 11:25. Hmmm. Is it real or artifact? I'm thinking it's real. The festoons (slight bulges here) of the upper band are indicated on other folks much better pics yesterday.

typical sub looked like this...

 

[bruha]

Hi and thank you for answer. Your Jup. images looks quite good (with really nice belts). Can I ask if you use as well phone camera adapter and what was magnification (resp. which eyepiece fl. and scope fl. you use?
I try to make GIMP processing (mainly sharpening) of one of your image (hope you are not angry)..

 

[DennisN]

So, it's just RAW+JPEG images tonight.

I like it a lot, and you got some moons in the same shot.
I'm doubtful that I could achieve such a photo with my equipment, but I will try to in the near future.
It would be interesting to see what you can achieve by filming Jupiter, I think you could make a major improvement.

 

[DennisN]

Is that the GRS in the lower band? It is supposed to be crossing the center of the planet tonight at 11:19 local time and these shots were taken at around 11:25. Hmmm. Is it real or artifact? I'm thinking it's real. The festoons (slight bulges here) of the upper band are indicated on other folks much better pics yesterday.

I also think it is the GRS. I compared with the other photo and did the same estimation.

I also took the liberty of playing around with an adjustment of your Jupiter photo just to show what I did with mine in Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop. I fiddled around a bit, and ended up using these adjustments:

In Adobe Lightroom:

Exposure: -2.62
Contrast: +76
Clarity: +100
(I also clicked the checkbox "remove chromatic aberration", which is not shown in the screenshot)

And then in Adobe Photoshop:
(to try to get a bit closer to the actual color of the planet, which wasn't easy! )

Hue: -66
Saturation: -42

The edits in Lightroom and Photoshop resulted in this image:

Some moons were sadly destroyed during the processing. I must have forgot to deactivate my desktop Death Star .

 

[chemisttree]

Hi and thank you for answer. Your Jup. images looks quite good (with really nice belts). Can I ask if you use as well phone camera adapter and what was magnification (resp. which eyepiece fl. and scope fl. you use?
I try to make GIMP processing (mainly sharpening) of one of your image (hope you are not angry)..

I also think it is the GRS. I compared with the other photo and did the same estimation.

I also took the liberty of playing around with an adjustment of your Jupiter photo just to show what I did with mine in Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop. I fiddled around a bit, and ended up using these adjustments:

In Adobe Lightroom:

Exposure: -2.62
Contrast: +76
Clarity: +100

Hue: -66
Saturation: -42

Those look great. I bow to your processing skills. Definitely not angry, Bru!

I used a Celestron C6 Schmidt-Cassegrain f10, 1525mm fl telescope, untracked, with a 15mm eyepiece equipped with a Baader Contrast Booster filter. The camera is my iPhone6 using the adapter I‘ve posted about in this thread before. Procamera app takes control of the camera allowing me to dial in the ISO 320 and 1/503 s shutter speed. About 100x at the eyepiece but who knows once PIPP enlarges it further. As shown, the magnification on my iPhone looks to be about 350x. On a larger screen the magnification is significantly more than that. The images were captured afocally with ~100x magnification. ~1.5mm pupil, which wasn’t too much trouble.

You can see the limitation of the cameraphone here by how insensitive it is to color under low light conditions. I doubt this setup will ever give me a good color shot of these dim objects at these shutter speeds (~1/500 s). This process is for me to push the (cheap) capability of small, unguided equipment with a handy camera that nearly everyone has. I’m going to try it with a couple of 60mm telescopes I have as well. One that I’ve had since comet Kohoutek back in ‘73 and one that I assembled from NOS available about 12 years ago.

 

[chemisttree]

The invert moon tonight.

Close up

 

[bruha]

Hi, chemisttree and thank you for your info. So I quess, your magnification is similar as I use 6 mm eypiece with my 600 mm scope, but probably you can reach better sharpness isn t is..?
Invert moon looks great as well , so lot of success and I hope my Jupiter will be better with next oportunity..

 

[bruha]

Hi again and thank you for advise concerning Camera app, but I have android Huawei Y6 ...if exist something analogical for this phone type...?

 

[DennisN]

Hi again and thank you for advise concerning Camera app, but I have android Huawei Y6 ...if exist something analogical for this phone type...?

I think you asked @chemistree , but I think he's got an iPhone.
I've got an Android LG G4, and I warmly recommend Open Camera. A very good, configurable camera app which also is free of charge AND free of ads. I've tried quite a few camera apps, and I like Open Camera the most.

Edit: Make sure to enable "Camera2 API" in the camera settings, so you can do various manual controlling of the camera (ISO, exposure, focus etc), that is, if your camera allows it.

 

[bruha]

Hi and thank you for advise. I downloaded Open Camera and it looks very good.