Pet Peeves of your native language

[pinball1970]

View attachment 244194

Yep, our beautiful, contradictory, oxymoronic, idiosyncratic, wonderfully complex and at times absurd language. If I was anything but an English speaker, I would have refused to have wasted my time learning this ridiculous language.

 

[fresh_42]

Yep, our beautiful, contradictory, oxymoronic, idiosyncratic, wonderfully complex and at times absurd language. If I was anything but an English speaker, I would have refused to have wasted my time learning this ridiculous language.

Well, it is so close to German that it was actually the easiest one to learn!

 

[Orodruin]

Well, it is so close to German that it was actually the easiest one to learn!

What about Dutch or Bavarian?

 

[fresh_42]

What about Dutch or Bavarian?

Dutch has difficult sounds produced in the throat. Would have been easier some centuries ago. But understanding it isn't too hard. And as by far most dutch people speak English quite well, there isn't a need.

Bavarian is easy, but not worth it. I once tried Hungarian and managed the pronunciation pretty well, but was too lazy to learn the words. It has an interesting grammar as well, as all grammatical information is coded in appendices.

 

[Orodruin]

Dutch has difficult sounds produced in the throat. Would have been easier some centuries ago. But understanding it isn't too hard. And as by far most dutch people speak English quite well, there isn't a need.

Bavarian is easy, but not worth it. I once tried Hungarian and managed the pronunciation pretty well, but was too lazy to learn the words. It has an interesting grammar as well, as all grammatical information is coded in appendices.

So what about Swedish? It is typically quite easy for Germans.

 

[fresh_42]

So what about Swedish? It is typically quite easy for Germans.

Well, I guess we have a history and your ancestors weren't the pleasant kind. And you already have Mrs. Sommerlad who learned to speak Swedish. Does she count?

 

[Janus]

https://www.puhutaan-suomea.net/kuusi-palaa-9-meanings-in-finnish/

 

[pinball1970]

Well, it is so close to German that it was actually the easiest one to learn!

Which is why German made sense whereas French was tricky when I studied as a kid

 

[ftr]

As a non Latin based native language, I find English to be the easiest among Latin based languages. I lived in the US for a while and in two months I could yap in all accents from California to New York. I thought that will prepare me to learn German, how wrong I was. Some of their words took half a day to finish.

 

[Klystron]

If ya'll (there's a necessary addition to english, a plural form of "you", and no I'm not from the south) can find it, Robert MacNeil (of the old MacNeil-Lehrer Report fame) did a series on the history of English that was really good.

When I returned to college after service, we were told to select a news service to maintain knowledge of current events. I chose MacNeil-Lehrer report, nowPBS NewsHour , that I watch and read to this day.

Jim Lehrer, a fine novelist -- his comparison of baseball player position as a paradigm for character traits remains a classic -- excellent news anchor and debate moderator, remains a public voice for veterans. Robin Macneil posseses one of the great English language voices outside theatre (IMO). We can all improve spoken English listening to Macneil's diction, phrasing and word choice.

Viewing old PBS Newshour coverage could provide dual benefits: exposure to fine spoken English describing unbiased, now historical, events.

 

[256bits]

Which is why German made sense whereas French was tricky when I studied as a kid

Same thing here. About the French. I don't know.
Greek for some reason when I dabbled in it seemed to make much more sense for me.

 

[pinball1970]

Same thing here. About the French. I don't know.
Greek for some reason when I dabbled in it seemed to make much more sense for me.

Greek!? I only know about the letters from maths/physics but using them to form words? I think that would be tricky.
Lots of Greek and Latin in biology and those languages form many stems in English but these are written obviously using our alphabet so it does not look like...Greek!
I automatically think Canadians would have a handle on French given the demographic but I suppose that would be like you expecting me to speak Cornish Celt or Welsh?
I know a lot of French but my pronunciation is hideous coupled with my fairly broad Mancunian accent.
French is a beautiful spoken lyrical language like Italian Spanish and Portuguese, in the hands of a Mancunian not so good. Like playing the viola with boxing gloves.

 

[fresh_42]

Greek!? I only know about the letters from maths/physics but using them to form words? I think that would be tricky.
Lots of Greek and Latin in biology and those languages form many stems in English but these are written obviously using our alphabet so it does not look like...Greek!
I automatically think Canadians would have a handle on French given the demographic but I suppose that would be like you expecting me to speak Cornish Celt or Welsh?
I know a lot of French but my pronunciation is hideous coupled with my fairly broad Mancunian accent.
French is a beautiful spoken lyrical language like Italian Spanish and Portuguese, in the hands of a Mancunian not so good. Like playing the viola with boxing gloves.

Nid ydych yn siarad galwyn?

 

[pinball1970]

Nid ydych yn siarad galwyn?

Dim ond ychydig

 

[Mark44]

I automatically think Canadians would have a handle on French given the demographic but I suppose that would be like you expecting me to speak Cornish Celt or Welsh?

This would definitely be true of most Canadians in Quebec, but not necessarily true for Canadians in other provinces, especially out west, such as in Alberta of British Columbia. Granted, Canada is officially bilingual in English and French, so non-French-speakers would at least see many French words along with their English equivalents.

Back to pet peeves of English. Many words in English have their origins in other languages - French, Latin, Greek, German, Hindi, and many other sources. One word in English is sort of a hybrid -- rhododendron, meaning "red tree." The rhodo part (red) comes from Greek, while the dendron part (tree) is derived from Latin.

 

[fresh_42]

Back to pet peeves of English. Many words in English have their origins in other languages - French, Latin, Greek, German, Hindi, and many other sources. One word in English is sort of a hybrid -- rhododendron, meaning "red tree." The rhodo part (red) comes from Greek, while the dendron part (tree) is derived from Latin.

The German dictionary says
"latin rhododendron <greek rhodódendron = oleander, actually = rose tree, to: déndron = tree"
so it seems to be completely Greek and then was copied into Latin and from there into our modern languages.

 

[OCR]

The German dictionary says

Well, actually, the German dictionary "says" . . . .

.

 

[fresh_42]

Well, actually, the German dictionary "says" . . . .

.

Sounds pretty much the same.

 

[Mark44]

The German dictionary says
"latin rhododendron <greek rhodódendron = oleander, actually = rose tree, to: déndron = tree"
so it seems to be completely Greek and then was copied into Latin

Those thieving Romans ...

 

[pinball1970]

Well, actually, the German dictionary "says" . . . .

.

I don't think we need quotations marks.

 

[pinball1970]

The German dictionary says
"latin rhododendron <greek rhodódendron = oleander, actually = rose tree, to: déndron = tree"
so it seems to be completely Greek and then was copied into Latin and from there into our modern languages.

We have Norse too, they raped pillaged then settled down and gave some great words
Anyway interesting as they are, these are not peeves and I do not want to get the thread closed for deviation.
Stupid rule in spelling, i before e except after c. Every time I utilized the rule as a kid it seemed like I had found the exception.
German rule when I first encountered it seemed much more logical, if it sounds like i then it ends in i, if it sounds like e..
I remember thinking, 'Why the hell didn't we think of that?'

 

[Mark44]

Peeves in English - What a difference a single letter makes!

wretched - two syllables, accent on first
retched - one syllable

 

[Mark44]

Another peeve - how many vowels are there in English?
Certainly a, e, i, o, and u are vowels, with the usual qualifier that y is sometimes a vowel. That makes six in total.

Occasionally teachers will add w to the list, for a total of seven. When I asked for a word in which w was used as a vowel, one teacher gave "awe" as an answer, but that wasn't very satisfying.

Can you think of a word in English in which w convincingly plays the role of a vowel?

 

[fresh_42]

Are tricks allowed?
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=cwm

 

[pinball1970]

Another peeve - how many vowels are there in English?
Certainly a, e, i, o, and u are vowels, with the usual qualifier that y is sometimes a vowel. That makes six in total.

Occasionally teachers will add w to the list, for a total of seven. When I asked for a word in which w was used as a vowel, one teacher gave "awe" as an answer, but that wasn't very satisfying.

Can you think of a word in English in which w convincingly plays the role of a vowel?

Two?

 

[pinball1970]

Are tricks allowed?
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=cwm

I saw that one but I have never heard of it so I went for something more accessible.
Low and bow were also examples given where w influences the phonetic, the vowel sound.
Replace the w with o and you have 'oo' as in 'two' rather than 'low' as in 'toe.'

 

[fresh_42]

I saw that one but I have never heard of it so I went for something more accessible.
Low and bow were also examples given where w influences the phonetic, the vowel sound.
Replace the w with o and you have 'oo' as in 'two' rather than 'low' as in 'toe.'

Yes, but it only changes the vowel, it isn't one.

 

[pinball1970]

Yes, but it only changes the vowel, it isn't one.

Yes but my original was 'two.'
In 'two' the w does not change the sound it substitutes the second o. It is playing the part of a vowel.

 

[fresh_42]

Yes but my original was 'two.'
In 'two' the w does not change the sound it substitutes the second o. It is playing the part of a vowel.

I am not convinced, as 'to' sounds the same way, with or without 'w'.

 

[pinball1970]

I am not convinced, as 'to' sounds the same way, with or without 'w'.

I think there is slightly more emphasis on 'too' than 'to.'
This is what happens when you invite a mathematician to analyse the rules of grammar when 'rigour' does not apply. I think you are right in a kind of a way but then again I have a point.
Imagine if mathematics worked in the same way?
Another peeve about the English language, it has too many grey areas and no real
rigour.

 

[Mark44]

I am not convinced, as 'to' sounds the same way, with or without 'w'.

I'm not convinced either.

Regarding w used as a vowel, I'm thinking of a word with w and no other vowels to complicate things.

 

[fresh_42]

Cwm as Welsh loanword. Otherwise it would really surprise me if there was one.

 

[Mark44]

Cwm as Welsh loanword.

That's the one...

 

[Vanadium 50]

In Bryn Mawr (the college), the second word is one syllable. The w alters the sound of the a. Is it a vowel? Well the i in Giordano certainly does the same thing and nobody calls it a consonant. (It's 3 syllables, although many Americans add a 4th). So it acts as a vowel.

Is this convincing? Probably not. It's certainly acting more vowel-like than consonant-like, but does that make it a vowel? I think the dichotomy consonant/vowel is the source of the confusion. W is acting as neither in this or the other examples (cow, low, awe). It actually is acting more like a diacritic, but is written as a letter instead.

 

[fresh_42]

It is difficult in English to decide as the language lacks the 1-1 correspondence of other languages which normally pronounce as they write. I searched for words of Arabic origin, because as far as I know, Arabic does not write vowels, but I haven't found any: vowels have always been included for the English version.

We have silent vowels in German, even sound changing vowels, especially in the area near the Netherlands which didn't follow some historical sound shifts. But it's hard to imagine a consonant becoming a vowel.