Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, 6 YTBN Shot, Killed In Tuscon AZ

[Newai]

I'm stunned... and the surgeon stated clearly that the bullet passed through the brain. At this point, I'm sure her doctors are stunned too.


DA: I know what you mean about the professional hitmen; they're psychopaths, and these people are psychopaths as well. Both are predators of their own kind, both for reasons a sane person would reject, and both are just plain scary. Just remember, we have a sensational media, and while this is terrible, until I see anything but a continued drop in national murder rates, I'm accepting that this is unusual and the rest is mostly media distortion.

Professional hitmen are psychopaths?

 

[jtbell]

My wife and I visited Tucson several times during my mother's last years there (2005-08), so we were naturally curious about exactly where this happened. The national TV news reports apparently don't consider this information important for a national audience, so I had to rummage around Tucson TV web sites for a while. I finally found it: the Safeway on Oracle Road at Ina, about a mile north of the motel where we always stayed, and where we usually shopped for groceries.

 

[nismaratwork]

Professional hitmen are psychopaths?

Phhhh... OK... let me clarify:

The profile of a the kind of "professional murder for hire" architect that people refer to as a "hitman", is that of a high functioning sociopath/psychopath (Now called Anti-Social Personality Disorder). So... yes.

In this modern age, we have a kind of narco-child soldier who the media calls hitmen, but are really just like child soldiers everywhere... they're traumatized certainly, but their acts often don't reflect their own choices.

 

[nismaratwork]

My wife and I visited Tucson several times during my mother's last years there (2005-08), so we were naturally curious about exactly where this happened. The national TV news reports apparently don't consider this information important for a national audience, so I had to rummage around Tucson TV web sites for a while. I finally found it: the Safeway on Oracle Road at Ina, about a mile north of the motel where we always stayed, and where we usually shopped for groceries.

Oh... you have GOT to put that here: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=16317&page=9

 

[jtbell]

I've now seen Mathamateur's report earlier in this thread. I hope he isn't as shook up about this as I would have been if I had been there.

 

[JaredJames]

Oh... you have GOT to put that here: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=16317&page=9

Wow, I randomly picked that to read for the first time an hour ago and then you go and post it here...

 

[nismaratwork]

At this point, all I can say is that clearly the actions of paramedics, and everyone who rendered first aid and primary care saved a lot of lives, and at least gave this woman a chance. That's to be commended, although I haven't heard anything about it on the news... shocker.Jared: OMG... it's Ivan... he's Sylar!

 

[arildno]

President Barack Obama's live statement:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog

 

[DevilsAvocado]

I meant where to look on Palin's site. Apparently she did take it down.

What!? "Chinese censorship"?? www.sarahpac.com works just fine from Sweden?

SP is giving her "sincere condolences are offered to the family of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other victims of today's tragic shooting in Arizona".

Which to me means her map (gone) was not smartest move in the world...

Try http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:o0grR1HQrV0J:www.sarahpac.com/+http://www.sarahpac.com/&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=en" and let me know if this doesn’t work.


EDIT: Misunderstanding, "she did take it down" [the site], sorry...

 

[arildno]

I think Palin's ad was neither offensive or dumb, it was an evidently playful manner of identifying key political antagonists.

That they have pulled that ad down now is the only decent thing they could do.

Not because the ad was indecent in itself, but that the massacre has irredeemably poisoned it, through no fault of Palin's or her associates.

If they HAD kept the ad going, though, they would themselves have become grossly offensive.

If somebody throws garbage on your clothes, you should not wear those soiled pieces of cloth, but find something else to wear.

 

[Bystander]

From everything I'm hearing about the guy and the people who were shot, I wonder if the judge was the target.

http://www.youthlaw.org/litigation/ncyl_cases/healthmental_health/1/

A good question --- just too much time in the courtroom with people who lack the mental stability to be loose on the streets? Bad scene.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

What!? "Chinese censorship"??

We're not communicating well. I meant she took down the map, not the site.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

I think Palin's ad was neither offensive or dumb,

Riflescopes and "17 more to go" is a smart ad...?

 

[DevilsAvocado]

We're not communicating well. I meant she took down the map, not the site.

Yeah I know... check the EDIT part... ;)

 

[Pengwuino]

Riflescopes and "17 more to go" is a smart ad...?

Not being dumb doesn't imply smart. It was just an ad. No one makes a big deal out of anything until something happens, which means it is just knee-jerk reactionary complaints. There have been ads like this for decades and no one complained because no sane person is going to take an ad and use it as a call to arms to go kill someone in real life. A crazy person doesn't need an ad, however.

 

[lisab]

I think Palin's ad was neither offensive or dumb, it was an evidently playful manner of identifying key political antagonists.

You probably don't live in a country where guns are as prevalent as the US. IMO, identifying targets of a political campaign with gun scopes is both offensive and dumb.

 

[arildno]

You probably don't live in a country where guns are as prevalent as the US. IMO, identifying targets of a political campaign with gun scopes is both offensive and dumb.

ACTUALLY, we have a much higher ownership percentage of guns here in Norway than "over there".

We use them to kill moose&grouse.

Or, should that be goose&mice?

 

[Lacy33]

Has anyone seen a picture of this person? I can not see videos on this computer.

 

[arildno]

Riflescopes and "17 more to go" is a smart ad...?

Is intelligence a two-valued variable?

 

[lisab]

Has anyone seen a picture of this person? I can not see videos on this computer.

Rhody found some stuff here -

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3072533&postcount=45

 

[nismaratwork]

ACTUALLY, we have a much higher ownership percentage of guns here in Norway than "over there".

We use them to kill moose&grouse.

Or, should that be goose&mice?

Does Norway have compulsory service in the military?

 

[Lacy33]

Rhody found some stuff here -

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3072533&postcount=45

Thank you. So sorry. How sad. I wonder if that's mom or if that has been said already.
I have to go to the market right now and I don't even feel like going out. I usually fear more for the punks than for me when I go out with my granny cart. But not now. Not tonight.

 

[nismaratwork]

I've read some of this poor bastard's writing, and he's out of his mind. Grandiosity is off the charts, with claims of being able to, "control all of the world's religions". The writing structure is rambling and repetitive, which screams either Schizophrenia, a manic state due to bipolar disorder, (perfect age for a psychotic break in either case), or my favorite: delusional disorder not otherwise specified aka... crazy spree killer.

What's clear from his writing and actions is that this murderer's mind is not working properly. I'm sure there will be debates about whether he was "pointed" in this direction, but it's clear he was a bomb about to explode... where and how were secondary to the act of detonating.

 

[Evo]

It's appaling how much about guns and getting rid of this woman there have been.

Giffords had been target of violent threats

In August 2009, an attendee at a Giffords town-hall meeting dropped a handgun, leading Giffords's staff to call the police. "We have never felt the need before to notify law enforcement when we hold these events," her spokesman said at the time.

That same month, Sarah Palin's political action committee posted a map of the US, showing the locations of the 20 Democratic members of Congress, including Giffords, it was targeting for defeat. Each location was marked by an image of a gun crosshairs.

Palin's camp dismissed charges that she was encouraging acts of violence, saying she had spoken out against violence. But Giffords herself was one of many who spoke out against the image, telling MSNBC: "When people do that, they've got to realize there's consequences to that action."

In June, the campaign of Giffords' Republican opponent in this year's midterms, Jesse Kelly, placed an ad that read: "Get on target for victory in November/ Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office/ Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly."

The website for Kelly, a former US Marine, depicted him with holding an automatic weapon.

And we're surprised someone went on a shooting spree?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110108/ts_yblog_thelookout/giffords-had-been-target-of-violent-threats

 

[Pengwuino]

One guy that was interviewed who was at the shooting said that the gathering was so small that the 19 people shot constituted a majority of the gathering. That's just awful...

 

[nismaratwork]

It's appaling how much about guns and getting rid of this woman there have been.

And we're surprised someone went on a shooting spree?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110108/ts_yblog_thelookout/giffords-had-been-target-of-violent-threats

Huh... that is troubling, but still... a little early to draw conclusions or use this as an example. The behaviour you describe is still reprehensible, and I think bordering on illegal, but it doesn't mean that THIS guy was truly a symptom of that disease. We have to be better than jumping to that, or any other, conclusion.

 

[nismaratwork]

One guy that was interviewed who was at the shooting said that the gathering was so small that the 19 people shot constituted a majority of the gathering. That's just awful...

No security on site, and for reasons that mystify me it seems that this is the one gathering in AZ without people packing heat! Those people were without much cover, and no way to defend themselves until police responded. By all accounts that response was rapid, but it doesn't take very long to kill people.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Not being dumb doesn't imply smart. It was just an ad. No one makes a big deal out of anything until something happens, which means it is just knee-jerk reactionary complaints. There have been ads like this for decades and no one complained because no sane person is going to take an ad and use it as a call to arms to go kill someone in real life. A crazy person doesn't need an ad, however.

Maybe you’re right... I just hope that everyone is as smart as you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="480" height="385">
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<param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param>
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</object>

 

[arildno]

Does Norway have compulsory service in the military?

Actually, yes.
Grouse droppings is a MAJOR contaminant in the midlands, and moose trample down our gardens.

So, where would we be without military conscription?

 

[nismaratwork]

Maybe you’re right... I just hope that everyone is as smart as you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="480" height="385">
<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/erHH3SXkZkU&fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0&amp;color1=0x402061&amp;color2=0x9461ca"></param>
<param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param>
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/erHH3SXkZkU&fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0&amp;color1=0x402061&amp;color2=0x9461ca" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed>
</object>

Lets say that he killed THESE people because of the current environment; economy, media saturation, negative ads, INSANE tea-people. Let's POSIT that ok? Let's also posit, and I think we can do this now more and more safely *nod to pengwuino* that this man is mentallly ill aka NUTS.

Is it better that he shoot up a random group, or a school, a job, etc? If a bullet is fired, and is bound to kill one of a given set of targets, which is the best to choose? In a sick and devil's advocate (IRONY) way, you could say the public servant taking the bullet, and being the magnet for this kind of behaviour is... civic.

 

[nismaratwork]

Actually, yes.
Grouse droppings is a MAJOR contaminant in the midlands, and moose trample down our gardens.

So, where would we be without military conscription?

I thought so, but I couldn't remember. How do you like your grouse cooked? I like a light gravy with cranberries.

 

[arildno]

I've never eaten grouse. Or moose. Nor do I own a rifle.

Apart from the district folk (who are many), only city magnates (and H.R.M.) bother to hunt.

We do NOT have a nobility here, we do NOT have a nobility here, we do NOT have a nobility here..

Or so we have been told, since 1824 or thereabouts..

 

[MathAmateur]

For the kind people who asked, I am fine if a bit shook up. I was going to work on a fractal generating program today, but that has been put off until I feel better. Believe me, it is nothing I want to go through again. Once is enough.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Is intelligence a two-valued variable?

Well... if you are living in Norway I have to tell you the "ad valuation" gets in a "slightly" different light... I live in Sweden... and you know what stories we have over here... "Norgehistorier"...

Sorry, I can’t tell you other guys one, or I be banned for life.

Heja Norge!


(... sorry again, this is not the place for jokes ...)

 

[nismaratwork]

Bad news (glad you're alright MA).

"With guarded optimism, I hope she will survive."

from Richard Carmona (Former US Surgeon General), who saw her CATscans and talked to her surgeon, and watched the procedure. In addition he described the wound as "devastating".

edit: Also the sheriff is now saying that another individual was also involved, and is currently on the run.