Should I Become a Mathematician?

[Dinogen]

Hello all. I am about to head to bed and because of my tiredness, I have only sifted through this scarcely, but I have a question or two. First, if I want to major in anything of mathematics (I am unsure yet), is it required to go to a high-class school? I've heard that it is almost impossible otherwise. I have attended normal public schools and my grades aren't outstanding, not because of stupidity, but because of the lack of attention I feel school deserves from me. I'm a Sophomore by the way. Is it too late to attend a really nice university?

I may edit this in the morning if I remember or before I get a response. I just wanted to make this post before I go to bed, though it may not be the most clear.

 

[tclos]

I used to be a mechanical engineering major, switched to math as an undergrad. I feel pure math is a better fit for me. Pure math has a different type of problem solving skill requirement, logic, and intuition. Granted it may not be the most lucrative field when the undergrad degree is the terminal degree, however, math is fundamental to any science and engineering field and college instructors are in demand.

 

[homeomorphic]

Hello all. I am about to head to bed and because of my tiredness, I have only sifted through this scarcely, but I have a question or two. First, if I want to major in anything of mathematics (I am unsure yet), is it required to go to a high-class school? I've heard that it is almost impossible otherwise. I have attended normal public schools and my grades aren't outstanding, not because of stupidity, but because of the lack of attention I feel school deserves from me. I'm a Sophomore by the way. Is it too late to attend a really nice university?

I may edit this in the morning if I remember or before I get a response. I just wanted to make this post before I go to bed, though it may not be the most clear.

If you are a sophomore, it's not too late to turn it around. I didn't go to a prestigious place for undergrad, but I got into a high-ranked place for grad school. I also turned things around in terms of grades, starting in my senior year, actually, when I changed my major to math. I did okay before that, but not great.

Of course, it does put you at a disadvantage, but it's not too late. You might not get into Princeton or Harvard, but that's okay.

I talked about getting into grad school. I don't know that much about undergrad, since I just went to where my dad was a prof, so I could get free tuition. Never really thought about competing. Anyway, you don't have to go to the best undergraduate institution, as my story shows.

 

[Dinogen]

If you are a sophomore, it's not too late to turn it around. I didn't go to a prestigious place for undergrad, but I got into a high-ranked place for grad school. I also turned things around in terms of grades, starting in my senior year, actually, when I changed my major to math. I did okay before that, but not great.

Of course, it does put you at a disadvantage, but it's not too late. You probably won't get into Princeton or Harvard (usually the people that get in there have straight As and have taken a couple years of graduate classes already, which you can't do if you are behind), but that's okay.

Thanks for the reply. Do you know which schools would be good to look for? I haven't done any searching, so before that I'd like some recommendations.

 

[homeomorphic]

Thanks for the reply. Do you know which schools would be good to look for? I haven't done any searching, so before that I'd like some recommendations.

I don't know about undergraduate programs. You can look at rankings for math departments and for the university overall. Higher ranked places will give you more leverage if you want to go to grad school and probably in the job market, but I think what matters most is what YOU do, not where you go.

I should add that I wasn't a great student in high school.

 

[mathwonk]

The problem with your plan Dinogen, is you have apparently not fully grasped that it is considered your responsibility to do well wherever you find yourself in order to be taken seriously or allowed access to a good school. Your comment about school not deserving your attention is pretty much a giveaway that you are so far, not deserving of a good school. It is not too late to change that attitude. But until it changes you will probably not get into a good school.

Sorry to be blunt but that is how i would treat your application if you were applying to my school. I have seen applicants with very strong SAT's, gifted all round in academics and sports, excellent grades, but who were not perceived as trying hard enough, not getting into their top college choices.

 

[Dinogen]

The problem with your plan Dinogen, is you have apparently not fully grasped that it is considered your responsibility to do well wherever you find yourself in order to be taken seriously or allowed access to a good school. Your comment about school not deserving your attention is pretty much a giveaway that you are so far, not deserving of a good school. It is not too late to change that attitude. But until it changes you will probably not get into a good school.

Sorry to be blunt but that is how i would treat your application if you were applying to my school. I have seen applicants with very strong SAT's, gifted all round in academics and sports, excellent grades, but who were not perceived as trying hard enough, not getting into their top college choices.

I understand what you are saying and I apologize if I worded it wrong. I meant that I don't care for most of what I learn because it's a... veil hiding things of greater potential. I don't need to know key figures of Greece and the works a Shakespeare. Believe me, I love going to math and science. I just hating wasting my time in classes I don't care and won't need.
Not to mention, the teachers at my school suck. That my seem crass, but it's true. They are horrible at teaching and the class students are berserk, making it nearly impossible to study right and learn what I need to unless I do it at home. To be honest, I'm considering learning everything I need to for my junior and senior classes and testing out of them. At the very least, begin homeschooling. But to get back to my point, my school sucks.
I've only just gotten into the field of mathematics and have only brushed over it, but after much contemplation and consideration, I really think it's what I want to do in my future. The only thing is, I don't know where to begin. Do you know any textbooks I should buy or even online courses of some sort? I want to begin learning as much as I can as soon as possible, but there is so much and I don't know where to start.

 

[homeomorphic]

I understand what you are saying and I apologize if I worded it wrong. I meant that I don't care for most of what I learn because it's a... veil hiding things of greater potential. I don't need to know key figures of Greece and the works a Shakespeare.

We were just talking about how it's good to know more than just math. I recall some kind of study that was done about engineering students that found that the ones who had taken humanities classes were more flexible in their thinking or something like that. I kind of half remember it, so it's hard to take it too seriously, but I think the point is clear.

Not to mention, the teachers at my school suck. That my seem crass, but it's true. They are horrible at teaching and the class students are berserk, making it nearly impossible to study right and learn what I need to unless I do it at home. To be honest, I'm considering learning everything I need to for my junior and senior classes and testing out of them. At the very least, begin homeschooling. But to get back to my point, my school sucks.

It could be that it sucks, but you have to make the most of what you have.

I've only just gotten into the field of mathematics and have only brushed over it, but after much contemplation and consideration, I really think it's what I want to do in my future. The only thing is, I don't know where to begin. Do you know any textbooks I should buy or even online courses of some sort? I want to begin learning as much as I can as soon as possible, but there is so much and I don't know where to start.

You can try Khan academy online.

I think plane geometry is a good subject to start with to help build your intuition (it's a typical high school class, but I think if you want to be a mathematician, it's a good idea to study it at a bit higher level). You can find Euclid's Elements online (just google it), or look at a book like Lines and Curves: A practical geometry handbook. Eventually, you will want to learn calculus, but you have to make sure that your algebraic skills are pretty good, first. Khan academy covers that, I think. Also, you can find books on problem-solving, like Polya's How to Solve It.

 

[Dinogen]

We were just talking about how it's good to know more than just math. I recall some kind of study that was done about engineering students that found that the ones who had taken humanities classes were more flexible in their thinking or something like that. I kind of half remember it, so it's hard to take it too seriously, but I think the point is clear.

Oh, believe me, I'm interested in more than just math. I love philosophy, and anatomy and biology as well. I've considered auditing a course and considering if I want to take one some time after my real school time, just to learn more.

You can try Khan academy online.

I think plane geometry is a good subject to start with to help build your intuition (it's a typical high school class, but I think if you want to be a mathematician, it's a good idea to study it at a bit higher level). You can find Euclid's Elements online (just google it), or look at a book like Lines and Curves: A practical geometry handbook. Eventually, you will want to learn calculus, but you have to make sure that your algebraic skills are pretty good, first. Khan academy covers that, I think. Also, you can find books on problem-solving, like Polya's How to Solve It.

Thanks. I'll take a look into each of those. :)

 

[mathwonk]

i sympathize dinogen. but i had a friend in grad school who was much smarter than me. he never made judgments about the professors, while i on the other hand got p***ed off by the ones that were offensive or stupid. he just learned from each one whatever they had to offer. to progress as fast as possible never let anyone's flaws prevent us from learning from them. for example i was kind of a jerk in responding to you, but you took it well. good job.

 

[TheKracken]

Could someone here give me an overview of what Mathematicians do? Like people with post doc and phd's...Ive heard of like code breaking and reaserch and such..could someone explain how code breaking and high level math have stuff in common? Also which path would you take for that ? pure? Applied? also What kind of reaserch do mathmaticians do?

 

[Nano-Passion]

Could someone here give me an overview of what Mathematicians do? Like people with post doc and phd's...Ive heard of like code breaking and reaserch and such..could someone explain how code breaking and high level math have stuff in common? Also which path would you take for that ? pure? Applied? also What kind of reaserch do mathmaticians do?

To add, one thing that always intrigues me is how what they do transitions to a full-time job. I guess I run by a syndrome named "how does it take soo long??" Its hard to imagine if your not far in the field.

 

[jerone]

For interesting math and physics programs, go to http://www.educationfair.nl/page/view/course-guide/natural-sciences-and-it
If you are looking for financial aid go to http://www.educationfair.nl/scholarship/search

 

[mathwonk]

Kracken, someone else has suggested this essay: I have not read it myself.

http://www.maths.manchester.ac.uk/~avb/pdf/WhatIsIt.pdf

 

[TheKracken]

Kracken, someone llse has suggested this essay: I have not read it myself.

http://www.maths.manchester.ac.uk/~avb/pdf/WhatIsIt.pdf

Good essay! It did not really answer any of my questions, but regardless it was still really good. I'm curious, I am currently self studying calculus and I was curious if I would be able to self study topics past calculus without calculus knolege? Let's say stuff after diffrential equations and such.

 

[Dougggggg]

Good essay! It did not really answer any of my questions, but regardless it was still really good. I'm curious, I am currently self studying calculus and I was curious if I would be able to self study topics past calculus without calculus knolege? Let's say stuff after diffrential equations and such.

Not DE, there may be some early level proof courses you could look into. I don't know but imagine that would be a tough one to teach yourself though.

Is anyone going to the Joint Meeting in Boston this year?

 

[mathwonk]

the only sure way to tell what you can understand about a subject is to look at the material and find out. you may not understand it fully, but you might either learn something or learn that you need to know more background. Is is surely impossible to understand much de without calculus, but you can enjoy some of the geometric aspects of vector fields by looking at the pictures or the software animations available.

 

[Li(n)]

What does one have to do to study network theory?

 

[homeomorphic]

What does one have to do to study network theory?

Since no one else is replying, let me take a stab at this, although I am not an expert.

I'll just focus on the side of it that I have explored, which is the pure math perspective. I was very interested in graph theory at one point in time, and maybe I will get back into it, although it seems far removed from what I'm doing now. Really the only prerequisite to start learning it is being comfortable with proofs, although once you get more advanced, other branches of math will become relevant.

You can find Diestel's graph theory book free online. That's the only source I am familiar with.

It's a beautiful subject. Blew my mind. Sometimes, I can't believe I didn't specialize in it, but I ended up at a school where there wasn't much of it going on, and I was so interested in topology and physics, so my attention drifted from it.

 

[mathphyslover]

i am in great dilemma whether to study maths or phys ??

i just love going deep deep deep...in any concept or you can say i just love to no the A-Z of anything i face while studing science.
equally
i love solving problems in mathematics ..

but doing both and keeping pace with school seems to be (i.m.)possible.
or i just love to do research but i am in 11th standard and i can't do that
i have decided to become a theoretical physicist?
nowdays i am tensed about my career ..

i have heard that "learn from yest. , live in present and hope for future."
but how one can hope for future if he don't know what to do in his present...

that's all
{this is my first post and i hope someone will guide me ,
extremely thank you

 

[mathwonk]

try to relax, listen to music, visit natural scenes.

 

[homeomorphic]

i am in great dilemma whether to study maths or phys ??

Which one is easier for you?

I had to make that decision, too, a few years ago before I applied to grad school. Maybe I'm kind of a physicist at heart. I find it hard to have a long-term, sustained interest in math without connections to reality. Physics keeps trying to pull me back in. I find it hard to focus on my thesis sometimes because of the lust to learn more physics all the time (and other math, too). If I do a postdoc, I'm going to try to get into quantum computing or some form of applied topology.

If you have a desire for more contact with reality, like me, maybe physics or applied math would be good. Some people can just work on problems of purely mathematical interest for their whole lives, with some vague hope that it will trickle its way into practical applications one way or another at some point. I don't have that kind of faith or patience. I want to have some reason to believe that the math might be making a contribution to society. Maybe not straight away, but headed in that direction, at least. So, my interest lies in bridging the gap between pure and applied. I'm not opposed to pursuing some things just for math's sake because there are always odds and ends in my understanding of math to be taken care of, but I don't think I can make that the focus of my efforts.

You can try to do both math and physics, but it's difficult. I tried to do both, but when you're in a math department, it can be a challenge not to get sucked way into pure math, and I imagine you could have the opposite problem in a physics department.

 

[mathphyslover]

what you mean by
"" you could have the opposite problem in a physics department.""

 

[mathphyslover]

NOW COMING to career -

i want to know how i can satisfy myself that 'yes , i have potential to become a theoretical physicist'?
what special is present in mind of a theo.physicist
or

i want to know what should be my planning to become a theoretical physicist/
if anyone know any website on theo.phy.

 

[homeomorphic]

what you mean by
"" you could have the opposite problem in a physics department.""

I mean if you like math, there might not be enough math.

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

How do mathematicians find time to have a girlfriend?

Unless maths doesn't consume most of their time, I guess.

 

[mathwonk]

thats a big problem. math takes so much time and attention. spending too much time with either one, girlfriend or math, can devastate the other relationship. Even as a mature adult I found it impossible about 20 years ago to resuscitate my dormant research life unless I refused to go out drinking with social friends - I needed my brains and will power sharp all the time. But life is full of competing demands, and at some point you have to learn to balance them.

In truth there is not enough time to do even your math job fully. All three aspects of a professor's job, research, teaching, and administration, are potentially infinite time sinks, and you have to truncate them and manage all of them.

Life is the same in general, you have a social self, an intellectual self, a physical self, and a spiritual self, and they all need to be kept healthy. Graduate school however is often a temporary period of imbalance. Thats why it can be a miserable experience.

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

When did you meet your spouse?
Before, after or during grad school?

 

[atyy]

micromass posted a solution at https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3513336&postcount=1736.

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

micromass posted a solution at https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3513336&postcount=1736.

The solution assumes I have more than zero, we didn't show existence. :-(

It's funny I remember watching the weakest link at Friday, and there some old guy who says he find his Taiwanian wife from some advertisemnt in the paper...

I guess I can always buy me a spouse. :-D

 

[atyy]

The solution assumes I have more than zero, we didn't show existence. :-(

 

[Nano-Passion]

thats a big problem. math takes so much time and attention. spending too much time with either one, girlfriend or math, can devastate the other relationship. Even as a mature adult I found it impossible about 20 years ago to resuscitate my dormant research life unless I refused to go out drinking with social friends - I needed my brains and will power sharp all the time. But life is full of competing demands, and at some point you have to learn to balance them.

Very wise words, I can relate, its the one thing I often ponder and struggle with. You often have the big-picture of things, have you considered writing a book by any chance?

In truth there is not enough tim to do even your math job fully. All three aspects of a professor's job, research teaching, and administration, are potentially infinite time sinks, and you have to truncate them and manage all of them.

Life is the same in general, you have a social self, an intellectual self, a physical self, and a spiritual self, and they all need to be kept healthy. Graduate school however is often a temporary period of imbalance. Thats why it can be a miserable experience.

I agree with the exception of the spiritual self. Unless you refer to the spiritual self as the subjective experience people attain through their sentient and pondering brains, and not a physical existence of a higher being and a soul ambiguously hidden away within the heart ventricles.

 

[mathwonk]

i mean it in the most comprehensive way. Even if you occasionally wonder about matters beyond your immediate self, i consider that a manifestation of your spiritual self. I do not postulate any mysteries that you must accept. I only mean that at times it seems to me healthy to consider matters more long lasting than our own next meal. Of course just contemplating the beauty of mathematics is something like this.

But I do not ask you to agree. I still think it useful sometimes to get up early and be quiet, or go to a national park and look at a mountain. I used to go to Mt Rainier for a few days in the late summer, to strengthen my resolve to go back to work for another year. It may even be useful to occasionally wonder what we have in common with other human beings.

I was in grad school twice, the first time unsuccessfully. In between the two trips I met my spouse. Then we had to go back to grad school with a child, when my employer was unwilling to keep me on as a teacher without a PhD degree, in spite of the general consensus opinion of my fellows that I knew as much as or more than anyone else there.

This posed a catch 22 for me keeping my job. I.e. without a PhD I could not keep my job, but once I obtained a PhD, I was eligible for so many much better jobs I would not stay where I was.

 

[homeomorphic]

How do mathematicians find time to have a girlfriend?

1) Get a girlfriend who doesn't demand too much of your time.

2) Make mathematical sacrifices. It's not worth it if you become a mathematical automaton with no life outside math.

3) Realize that it is one more reason to use your time wisely.

Which bring me to how to manage your time.

Since I suck at time management, let me just link to Terence Tao:

http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/on-time-management/

I guess the biggest piece of advice I could give to myself is to use my will-power.

Lately, though, I have been using my partially self-imposed excessive workload to distract myself from the fact that I can't get a girlfriend in the first place. I haven't been worried about girls quite as much lately. Tired of failure, I suppose. It just takes so long for the right one to come along, I guess I may as well take advantage of it while I have the extra time on my hands.

 

[morphism]

Another problem is that you will most likely have to move several times for your career. You might have to move for grad school. Once you get your PhD, you'll most likely have to move a couple of times for post docs. And after that you'll probably have to move again for a tenure-track job, and then maybe again after that.

All this instability will make having a long-term relationship more complicated.