Solar Panel System Troubleshooting - Charging Battery

[Wolst73]

Bizarre! What a bummer.

Not exactly what I said but was very relieved it was the Lux drive and didn't blow the LED's. That would have been a major pain to replace them. I will order new driver. I am going away for 10 days so should be here when I get back.

Battery was up to 12.52v which I don't recall ever seeing with other panel so another finger pointing at faulty panel and in 1 day! (BTW, eBay seller is still asking for more pictures of data...sent again today).

I have unhooked everything tonight as I don't trust it being hooked up and nothing else going wrong when I'm not around.

 

[Wolst73]

Hi everyone. Thought I would give you an update. When I got back I reconnected both panels to charge controller. The ammeter had also arrived so hooked it up to measure panel output to controller. Borrowed panel showed about 0.5A in optimal light (makes no difference when I unhook my panel). Let battery charge for a few days. Light on charge controller started flashing which I believed to be fully charged or switching to trickle charge. Voltage was about 13.9. Reconnected lights that night and have been on every night since. Have them set for 2 hours. Battery is down about 1/2 volt in morning. Had a couple days in a row of cloud and battery didn't quite recover the 1/2 volt used each day but full sun since and battery is gaining.
Hopefully when replacement panel arrives we will get somewhere around the 1.5A total although I have my doubts about the quality of that panel.
Thanks again for everyone's suggestions and time. Much appreciated.

 

[Wolst73]

Solar powered led lights are still working fine although the cloudy winter made them very hit and miss. Bought another panel to help out. 40w 12 volt panel. Have extra power as battery gets charged fully everyday. New summer project in mind. Bought a water fountain to go in flower bed. However the pump is a 120V ac pump. (0.082amp 60hz). Original plan was to connect one of the panels to a dc to ac inverter and power it that way using the panels output as an on/off switch. Want the fountain to run during the day. After some reading, some sites say it should work, some say it is not possible.

Other option I thought of would be to buy a dc submersible pump and replace. Can get one for about $25 from amazon. Would need something to regulate the power from panel and also serve as on/off. Am I wrong in thinking that charge controller only switches to load when output from panel drops?

Which option do you think will work using my current setup?

 

[sophiecentaur]

You need to do a proper budget of Ahrs in and Ahrs out under the worst light conditions you want it to work. Any pond pump that's worth while will need at least 1A (24/7 i.e. 24Ahr every day) which represents a massive increase in demand. It's down to panel output AND battery Ahr capacity.

Am I wrong in thinking that charge controller only switches to load when output from panel drops?

That's effectively what happens but only as a consequence of what the system does. The controller looks at the volts on the battery and so the current supplied from the panel has to be based on that. It gives as much current as needed to keep the battery from overcharging (on a bright day, the panel is obvs supplying load and charge current) . It cuts off the load if the battery volts are dangerously low and passes anything it can to the battery.

 

[jim hardy]

I also got out an ancient analog multimeter I picked up at a garage sale for $1.00 this spring,

Triplett 630 ? A buck ? You made out like a bandit. That classic was forty dollars in 1964, a day or two's wages . That picture of it belongs in @ZapperZ 's "Green with Envy" thread.

To this day it remain the most desirable analog multimeter because its center scale resistance of just 4.5 ohms gives resolution to sub-one-ohm. Compare to any other analog meter.

http://www.triplett.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/84-183f.pdf

old jim

 

[OmCheeto]

Triplett 630 ? A buck ? You made out like a bandit. That classic was forty dollars in 1964, a day or two's wages . That picture of it belongs in @ZapperZ 's "Green with Envy" thread.

To this day it remain the most desirable analog multimeter because its center scale resistance of just 4.5 ohms gives resolution to sub-one-ohm. Compare to any other analog meter.

What a coincidence. That's what I used it for yesterday; measuring the resistance of a 1 Ω resistor, for another PF inspired "solar" experiment.

http://www.triplett.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/84-183f.pdf

I downloaded that the same day I bought the meter, which is somewhat odd, in that I was 150 miles from home. Wifi and laptops are the bomb.
Still haven't replaced the 30 volt battery.
Though I almost never measure resistances > 10,000 Ω, so probably never will.

 

[Wolst73]

Clarification: this is not for a pond. It is a mirror ball with water coming out the top and flowing down the sides. Pumps just enough to get the water out the top. Nothing major.

After this winters experience with the LED lights, solar power is not a viable option in Victoria for the winter. I had 2 panels hooked up and with all the clouds, rain and short days, the lights rarely came on. Thus, I don't expect anything to run on the worst light days (November to March). Will be a summer feature.

Current battery is the same 12V 18ah on page 1. Have the 40w panel stated above and also the one mentioned earlier in this thread. It actually blew over in the winter and cracked but is still working. Going to try to seal the glass to keep as much moisture out. Have an extra battery as well (12v 3ah). So could potentially make a separate system with its own panel.

So question is, use battery or panel connected to dc to ac inverter and use original pump (if this is even possible) or use battery connected to a replacement dc pump. Assuming you would need something to regulate amp? Also something that senses light to turn circuit on?

What would you electrical experts do??

 

[Tom.G]

What would you electrical experts do??

Since your operating time and seasons are flexible, I would go with the simplest possible; a DC pump connected to a solar panel. If you need the water flow while a cloud passes by, add a battery and controller. Motors aren't real touchy about applied voltage, DC motors vary speed with applied voltage and AC motors vary speed with applied frequency. A small DC motor wouldn't have a problem with a 25% overvoltage; assuming the flow isn't restricted, it would just pump more water! And wear out a little sooner.

 

[Wolst73]

This is the original pump (WP-450)
http://jebaopump.com/products/wp-450-replacement-pump-rwp-450-submersible-fountain-pump

This is what I found that had similar flow rates
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C6XNB50/?tag=pfamazon01-20

 

[Wolst73]

f you need the water flow while a cloud passes by, add a battery and controller.

That's a good idea. My controller has a few minute delay before it switches to load so hopefully cloud would have passed. Is there a controller without a delay?

how would you wire it so that pump is running directly off panel when there is enough sunlight and switch to battery when it's power output drops? (Jim's schematic pictures would be great!)

 

[Tom.G]

Since your existing solar system has excess capacity, you could connect the pump to that as just an additional load. You may or may not need a way to keep the pump off at night. If the lights stay on long enough, just let the pump run. It is unclear if the lights are on continuously. If not, then replace whatever switches them with a device to select between lights and pump.

As an alternative, you might consider this pump. It has half the water flow but about 1/3 the power requirement. (Smaller panel and battery needed... or longer runtime.)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JWJIC0K/?tag=pfamazon01-20

Is there a controller without a delay?

No idea, I've never done a solar-electric system. Anyone out there, is there available a solar controller without a switching delay?

how would you wire it so that pump is running directly off panel when there is enough sunlight and switch to battery when it's power output drops? (Jim's schematic pictures would be great!)

The instructions that come with the controller would show that... (or I suppose you could ask @jim hardy to do your research.)

 

[jim hardy]

how would you wire it so that pump is running directly off panel when there is enough sunlight and switch to battery when it's power output drops? (Jim's schematic pictures would be great!)

Simplest answer is : Just parallel them. Strongest source, battery or panel, carries the load. But you probably want the low voltage cutout feature of a controller so as to not run the battery flat?

You'd have to let us read the controller's instruction manual. Probably you'll see it in there first, though. Is it linked earlier in the thread?

 

[anorlunda]

My solar charge controller prioritizes battery charging, but then it automatically shunts any excess power to an auxiliary load. It is solid state, instantaneous, handles 40A, cost about $120, from Xantex.

 

[Wolst73]

Sorry for being lazy about research. Have in my mind how I want it to work but don't know where to look to see if it will work or what devices are out there to make it work.

As an alternative, you might consider this pump.

I saw that pump but was worried the 400mA might be to low and fry the motor.

You'd have to let us read the controller's instruction manual.

This might help. Hopefully you can enlarge and read. I have it set on 3. Lights on for 3 hrs but there is still a delay even though it says it should be off. 17 has the load on continuous when there is sunshine. Where does power for load come from in this case? Panel charges battery, battery powers load? When sun goes down, load shuts off and battery won't be totally drained? This is a cheap controller so may not be smart enough to alternate as @anorlunda stated. This would work although would be nice to run for the 3 hrs that the lights are on.