Terrorist Attack hits London, City on Alert

[pattylou]

There's probably some victim joking about coming home legless again, a bunch of lads about town saying they've had a blast, a commuter saying the tube is getting worse and worse... it's the Dunkirk spirit... but in London instead of Dunkirk. You can't kill that with any amount of explosives. In fact, the one-fingered salute should be elevated to the status of national identity. Fug the terrorists. We fugged em off before, we'll fug em off again.

Love those come-backs. LOL!

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

Have you ever read the classic Frankenstein by Mary Shelley, Pengwuino? 'Bad guys' are created - they don't just appear for no reason.

EDIT: Just in case anyone gets the wrong idea - I do NOT condone these actions in any way, but I dispute Pengwuino's summary of it because it does not take the actual situation into account. If recent conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq had not occurred, this horrific, senseless and cowardly event would not have occurred either. Please don't jump on me for giving my considered response to Pengwuino's summary.

The true monster in Shelly's Frankenstein was society, not the 'monster' created by Frankenstein. But yes, you're right. I think if Pengwuino has ever come across people saying the 9/11 (or Madrid) terrorists are anything other than bad guys, then those people are fools. The truth is that we created the environment in which these people would emerge, and our methods aren't exactly heroic either.

 

[Astronuc]

EDIT: Just in case anyone gets the wrong idea - I do NOT condone these actions in any way, but I dispute Pengwuino's summary of it because it does not take the actual situation into account. If recent conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq had not occurred, this horrific, senseless and cowardly event would not have occurred either. Please don't jump on me for giving my considered response to Pengwuino's summary.

It's hard to say - we cannot turn back the clock.

Consider the sequence:

September 2001 Terror attacks on World Trade Center in NYC and the Pentagon.

October 2001 The US invades Afghanistan

December 2001 The War in Afghanistan is over

March 2003 US invades Iraq

. . . .

Invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq came after the attack on US.

The attack in London coincided with the opening of G8 - which was well know in advance. If the G8 summit had been in another country, presumably the attack(s) would have been in a major city or cities there.

In the end, we (collectively the world) has to find a path away from violence. Easier said than done.

 

[Delta]

I thought the events of today were sickening enough until I read the comments from bicycle. How thoughtless, surely he can't be allowed to remain on these forums with such senseless voicing against the victims and their families and friends.

I agree that this has nothing to do with the olymipics. This has been very well planned and the time is too short and two great for an olympic protest. Although it will have affect the progress of the preperations. And yes there were extensive plans in place to extend the tube line out at least, as well as other projects.

I believe this was timed to conincide with the G8 but for the reason of the war on terror than what the G8 was in place for. I think a terrorist attack on the uk was inevitable and the alliance of blair to bush provoked fear for the public because of this.

I have to admit I was not moved by the twin tower attacks, and thought the american opinion was too extreme and too reactive, perhaps even they asked for it. Now its hit home, I can see why america reacted the way it did, even if I do still think perhaps the war could have been handled differently.

I hope the reaction to the "london bombs" is not as half-cocked as the war on iraq and afghanistan, but that the intelligence works toward locating these terrorist groups and taking them out.

I think the bus bomb was an accident. Apparently the first tube explosion was thought to be a power line surge, after a couple more explosions the whole underground was shut down. Perhaps the terrorist on the bus caught wind of this and blow themself up there and then on the way to a station. I think the bus was a 207, does this stop near a station on the cirular or hammsmith and city line?

 

[pattylou]

Bicycle tree may be infected with Lyme disease.

If I recall correctly, the organism that causes Lyume Disease (Borrelia burgdorferei) can, after a time affect the nervous system. This is why I asked Bicycle tree to please stay in touch with his/her doctor. I didn't want to mention it directly, I assume Bicycle tree is capable of learning on his/her own, how this organism can affect physiology.

Since the organism can affect the nervous system (not sure if the CNS becomes involved), and even just since BT has been sick for some time with fever and rash - I think his/her comments re: terrorism should ... maybe be ignored. I commented on them - and maybe shouldn't have.

Bicycle Tree - please continue your antibiotics, don't skip any, and stay in touch with your doctor.

 

[Moonbear]

I think the bus bomb was an accident. Apparently the first tube explosion was thought to be a power line surge, after a couple more explosions the whole underground was shut down. Perhaps the terrorist on the bus caught wind of this and blow themself up there and then on the way to a station. I think the bus was a 207, does this stop near a station on the cirular or hammsmith and city line?

That's possible, that the bus wasn't planned, but there was no place to go with the remaining bombs, so they just set them off on the bus. Alternatively, it could have been to provide pictures for the media. I can't pretend I in any way understand how a terrorist thinks, but it's possible that they planned that one for the sake of press photos. If you're trying to make a statement, the downside to explosions in subways is the only photos you'll get are of the casualties being carried out, nothing showing how much damage you caused inside, at least not photos that will be broadcast around the world in a matter of minutes. The bus is visible and easy to photograph.

 

[BicycleTree]

Yes we are talking about 7 people dead. Would you go on and on about obesity if I mention disasters other than terrorist attacks? I could talk about the Tsunami. Or better still, something that happened in my city, an earthquake a few years ago in which more than 4000 people died, in which I saw buildings collapse before my eyes on my way back home from school, not knowing whether my house was still standing and my parents were alive.
I don't think somehting like obesity can even be compared with disasters like these, which happen all of a sudden, which you have no control over.
Sunayana.

Actually, you can build defensively against earthquakes.

A disaster of 4000 people dead is a real disaster, although not one that should change the course of a nation if it occurred in a big nation. 7 people dead is a lesser matter.

Terrorist attacks have ripple effects ---- Like wars with tens of thousands of people dead and no exit strategy.

Even if no one died, even if the attacks had been thwarted, a massive plan to attack the Tube etc is huge news.

This is exactly what I mean. Why is terrorism big news? Because people overreact to it. The War On Terrorism is big news and a big problem, mainly because it damages our economy which causes stress to and reduces the health of millions of Americans. If people didn't have such huge reactions to statistically very little problems, we wouldn't get in senseless wars like that.

BT, the only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that you or somebody you know is obese, and you're pulling a "woe is me" stunt. Stop. You can't compare human life.

Actually, I am in good shape, and although I do have a couple aunts who are too fat, most of my family is also in good shape. I am concerned about obesity because it is a huge deal. Good health is one of the really basic fundamentals of a good life.

Terrorism is NEVER justified. It is an unconscionable act of evil to attack unarmed or otherwise innocent people.

When have I ever argued this? Terrorism is an unjustified, unconscionable act of evil. So is Jeffrey Dahmer-style serial killing--but do we have a "war on serial killers"? No. Instead, we have a police force, the correct response for threats of that scale. The reason why have no "war on serial killers"? Deaths due to serial killers are insignificant.

The point: overreaction to terrorism is also unjustified. The war in Iraq is a direct result of a lack of perspective about terrorism.

The sense of perspective and rationality is that a city has been under attack. How can you claim that in a full light it is rather small and insignificant?

Because so far only 7 people died, and in that particular city 7 people die on an average of every 35 minutes.

So your saying if a thermonuclear weapon is detonated in Berlin, we hsouldnt care and it shouldn't be covered because hey, more people die from poverty or cancer or aids.

If someone detonated a thermonuclear weapon in Berlin, that would be statistically significant. Now this is a very good point. Nuclear terrorism can be statistically significant. This is why we need to focus resources on controlling nuclear weapons, and not pass things like the "Patriot" act to stop the small fry who can't actually hurt us, at the sacrifice of our natural rights.

 

[Clausius2]

I agree that this has nothing to do with the olymipics. This has been very well planned and the time is too short and two great for an olympic protest. Although it will have affect the progress of the preperations. And yes there were extensive plans in place to extend the tube line out at least, as well as other projects.

I believe this was timed to conincide with the G8 but for the reason of the war on terror than what the G8 was in place for. I think a terrorist attack on the uk was inevitable and the alliance of blair to bush provoked fear for the public because of this.

Hi Delta, I hope you and your family are everyone Ok.

Don't forget AlQaeda always have attacked with some clear purpose. In Madrid they planned carefully their attack just before the Elections, in which they made Aznar's party to loose them. Now, it seems to me a double hit: one for belonging to Iraq's war club, and another targeted to weaken the image of London security about hosting the O. Games. Also, to say the truth this last issue would be more effective if it were done yesterday rather than today. I don't know.

 

[pattylou]

This is exactly what I mean. Why is terrorism big news? Because people overreact to it. The War On Terrorism is big news and a big problem, mainly because it damages our economy which causes stress to and reduces the health of millions of Americans. If people didn't have such huge reactions to statistically very little problems, we wouldn't get in senseless wars like that.

We have to take care with our response to such events.

This would not include not discussing them to begin with. It *would* include using reason rather than emotion to chart a course.

This thread was started to raise awareness, the emotions that have been forthcoming from the majority of participants, is concern for Londoners. THis is not the sort of emnotion that needs to be railed against!

If Bush or Blair begins to talk about invading Europe to uproot the European branch of Al Quaeda - then a discussion of over-reacting becomes appropriate. Presumably in a new thread.

 

[BicycleTree]

The reason I am posting in this thread and not making a new thread about "the importance of preventing obesity" is that the point I want to make is that non-nuclear terrorism is insignificant compared to larger, curable problems such as obesity. 300,000 deaths/yr can be attributed to obesity in the USA. That's 100 times the death toll from the WTC attacks.

Some things are important, some things are less important. It is a test of your rationality to be able to distinguish the things that kill 300,000 a year from the things that kill a few hundred to a few thousand a year, and not to react instinctively and irrationally to images of bodies and fires. The history of pain of the bodies in a single hospital morgue is much greater than the pain experienced by the dead in any terrorist attack that kills 7 people.

 

[siddharth]

BT,
What you are saying makes no sense at all. It's like putting one foot on a frying pan and another in an ice box and saying that statistically you are feeling perfectly fine.

And it's 33 as of now and still rising. Not 7. And not that it would make any difference to you.

 

[Evo]

BT, I understand that you think it's better not to play into the terrorists hands by giving them the reaction they want, but it's coming off as unfeeling and uncaring of a very tragic event.

No, we should not give into these insane terrorists, and this heinous act is sure to backfire on them by hardening the hearts against them of any that might have thought they had any justifiable cause. The world cannot let itself be terrorized into submitting to the fanatic beliefs of a handful of religious nuts.

Out of respect to the feelings of those affected by todays senseless tragedy, please refrain from further posts on this subject here. There is a thread in the politics section if you want to discuss the political aspects.

 

[Astronuc]

When have I ever argued this? Terrorism is an unjustified, unconscionable act of evil. So is Jeffrey Dahmer-style serial killing--but do we have a "war on serial killers"? No. Instead, we have a police force, the correct response for threats of that scale. The reason why have no "war on serial killers"? Deaths due to serial killers are insignificant.

BT, my comment "Terrorism is NEVER justified. It is an unconscionable act of evil to attack unarmed or otherwise innocent people." was not directed toward you specifically. It just happened to be in the same post in which I quoted you and offered comments.

It is hard to identify "serial killers" a priori. In societies, which value individual liberty and freedom, one is not investigated unless there is probable cause. All homicides are investigated by civil authorities, and if a serial killer appears invovled, every effort is made to locate and apprehend the criminal.

Deaths due to serial killers are significant - especially to the victim's family and friends.

Even one death due to homicide (or suicide) is one too many - and it is significant to me - statistical or otherwise.

If it appears that someone's life is in danger - I will intervene even at the risk of my own - and I have done so.

 

[brewnog]

I've just finally found out that my other friend who lives in central London is ok too, as are all her friends. It was a close call for her, too; her current art exhibition is in the building opposite the bus bomb, but she couldn't get close to it due to the chaos caused by the earlier bombs! The world works in a funny way, sometimes.

What Wolram said is right - this kind of thing doesn't get the British down. There's probably some victim joking about coming home legless again, a bunch of lads about town saying they've had a blast, a commuter saying the tube is getting worse and worse... it's the Dunkirk spirit... but in London instead of Dunkirk. You can't kill that with any amount of explosives.

Very true. I've heard quite a few jokes (and seen some cartoons!) about this mornings' events already; many of them in pretty bad taste. The odd thing is, where such jokes might normally be so sick as to have them postponed for a week or so, it serves as a nifty form of relief. Even Blair and Livingstone's messages took the form "don't let the bastards grind you down".

 

[juvenal]

Wow - BT's stuff in this thread is a prime example of logic gone awry. Everything he says is internally consistent which allows him to feel a sense of "rational" superiority, but the problem is that some of his premises are just plain unsophisticated, naive, if not dumb.

BTW - one can incorporate "irrational" preferences into a rational framework. For example, risk aversion in economics.

 

[russ_watters]

Stalin once said "One deaths is a tragedy - a million is a statistic."

Stalin was a sociopath.

While the media and public reaction is often out of phase with the true magnitude of a situation (plane crash vs car crashes for example), a terrorist attack is a mass murder, not an accident, and not consequence of a personal lifestyle choice. Mass murders, whether terrorism, school shootings, or whatever, are true intentional tragedies, deserving of every second of media attention and public outcry that they get.

P.S. - a million deaths is not a statistic, its a million individual tragedies.

 

[Moonbear]

Stalin once said "One deaths is a tragedy - a million is a statistic."

Stalin was a sociopath.

While the media and public reaction is often out of phase with the true magnitude of a situation (plane crash vs car crashes for example), a terrorist attack is a mass murder, not an accident, and not consequence of a personal lifestyle choice. Mass murders, whether terrorism, school shootings, or whatever, are true intentional tragedies, deserving of every second of media attention and public outcry that they get.

P.S. - a million deaths is not a statistic, its a million individual tragedies.

It doesn't even need to be mass murder. We get news reporting of every individual murder, at least locally. When it's a mass murder, it gets more widespread media attention because of the scale. And when it is a mass murder with a political message committed by a group that threatens people internationally, it becomes international news. The newsworthiness is not just that people died, but how they died. Beyond that, people are emotional and social beings, not computers; tragedy is not measured by cold, hard logic, but by the social impact.

 

[russ_watters]

It doesn't even need to be mass murder. We get news reporting of every individual murder, at least locally. When it's a mass murder, it gets more widespread media attention because of the scale. And when it is a mass murder with a political message committed by a group that threatens people internationally, it becomes international news. The newsworthiness is not just that people died, but how they died. Beyond that, people are emotional and social beings, not computers; tragedy is not measured by cold, hard logic, but by the social impact.

Well, politically motivated or not, mass murders (of more than about half a dozen) generally get international attention. I still remember the coverage of the German copycat of Columbine (though I had to google to remember it was 18 deaths and in 2002).

The general point of your message I agree with though.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

I think the bus bomb was an accident. Apparently the first tube explosion was thought to be a power line surge, after a couple more explosions the whole underground was shut down. Perhaps the terrorist on the bus caught wind of this and blow themself up there and then on the way to a station. I think the bus was a 207, does this stop near a station on the cirular or hammsmith and city line?

I agree. It was either a complete accident - i.e. they didn't mean for the bomb to go off at that point at all - or it was a last minute rethink. It's the only site where they think the bomber was still on the transport. It wouldn't be the first time some d1ckhead blew himself up with his own bomb. The bus was a number 30.

 

[wolram]

I have only thoughts of hatred for the things that bring about mass murder,
and i am usual a rational person, but i just can not think of them as human,
if one of them has one or two stem cells still functioning and is able to
comprehend words, then i say to them, go back to your slime pool, i would
gladly bring the disinfectant to eradicate it from the world.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

I've just finally found out that my other friend who lives in central London is ok too, as are all her friends. It was a close call for her, too; her current art exhibition is in the building opposite the bus bomb, but she couldn't get close to it due to the chaos caused by the earlier bombs! The world works in a funny way, sometimes.



Very true. I've heard quite a few jokes (and seen some cartoons!) about this mornings' events already; many of them in pretty bad taste. The odd thing is, where such jokes might normally be so sick as to have them postponed for a week or so, it serves as a nifty form of relief. Even Blair and Livingstone's messages took the form "don't let the bastards grind you down".

Good to hear your troop's doing fine. I've just found out my girlfriend's brother was in one of the areas, yards away when the bomb went off but thankfully unharmed - just stuck in London. Every time I think how lucky I am, I feel sick.

I haven't heard any sick jokes at the expense of victims and their families, I'm glad to hear. Dunkirk spirit is one thing, turning misery into a figure of fun is another.

Did you see Clarke's interview with Paxman? I thought he came across very well. Made me even more glad Blunkett got the elbow.

 

[Moonbear]

Well, politically motivated or not, mass murders (of more than about half a dozen) generally get international attention. I still remember the coverage of the German copycat of Columbine (though I had to google to remember it was 18 deaths and in 2002).

The general point of your message I agree with though.

Okay...I wasn't really sure how much international coverage there was of mass murders that were not politically motivated.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

BTW, last count 38 dead, 700+ injured. Some poor soul died in hospital. There are still more deaths suspected as a result of the bus incident, so I don't know where Pengwuino's source of 40 came from but it sounds pretty close.

 

[Moonbear]

BTW, last count 38 dead, 700+ injured. Some poor soul died in hospital. There are still more deaths suspected as a result of the bus incident, so I don't know where Pengwuino's source of 40 came from but it sounds pretty close.

40 is what the headlines over here have from an undisclosed US official speaking on the basis of anonymity because he's not supposed to be telling people what the British officials told him until they release the official report themselves. I have to wonder, do all these officials tell each other stuff with a wink, wink, nudge, nudge to go with it? Or are they all hopeless blabber mouths? Surely the folks in Britain know who they talked to in the US to know who to blame if they wanted it kept confidential until they had more information, or maybe they shouldn't have blabbed to the US in the first place if they still need to verify information.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

Well look at it this way: round multiples of ten have a 1/10 probability.

 

[Gale]

well, i'd like to say I'm also very sorry for anyone affected by the tragedy.

I started work at a girl scout camp today, and surprisingly, almost half the staff is from Great Britian. it was so odd, because i heard the news and left the house this morning, thinking, "wow..." but still... not quite affected... and then i got to camp, and i saw all the women crying and making phone calls, and wishing they weren't stuck out in the middle of nowhere in the US away from their friends and families...

It was also harsh, because we were advised not to tell the children. they're leaving tomorrow anyway, so i s'pose it isn't the biggest deal... but it was horrible to look at the little girls, and to realize that they were in first grade for september eleventh, and since then, so much has happened. i wondered if they had been affected more when the attack was directly on the US, or when all their conselors were suddenly sad and melancholy because of what happened in London.

I remember my mum saying about how when sept 11 happened, how she had always wished that her generation would've been the last to see war. that, its funny, because her mum's generation wished that before her... and then i looked at the girls, and i wished it for them.

i was convinced we should tell them, but it was awful to think of the logic... they'd been through sept 11, they know all about the war. they know what terrorism is, and what it does... they ought know about London because its just one more link in the chain of events that are shaping their lives... they've been through so much similar, why shouldn't they know? but then, maybe they ought keep their ignorance a few more days. perhaps retain their innocence a while longer. we don't need to tell them now, they're at camp, and want to have fun... but they're conselors are so sad... i just hope it doesn't ruin their summers...

At any rate, fortunately, eveyone's relatives seem to be well. and I'm glad to hear no one on here has had any dear one's hurt either... I remember sept 11, my dad was supposed to be on one of the planes... they sent someone else in his place... i remember how sickening it is to recall such close calls... and how selfish it even feels to be glad that other man died... These sorts of things really stir up a lot of emotions. I do hope that the war isn't worsened... i have friends over there... i hope they stay safe too.

 

[totallyclueless]

so I've heard that 37 people are dead, 700 injured, and 4 confirmed explosions with 2 unexploded devices found

this is horrible.

 

[wolram]

Gale 17, you are a good soul, let the children be happy, and protect them from
this nastiness.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I just wanted to say to our British members that Tsu and I offer our condolences to all who are affected by this tragedy.

 

[Moonbear]

Gale 17, you are a good soul, let the children be happy, and protect them from
this nastiness.

I agree on both points. Their parents can explain when they get home if they wish to do so, but let the children be innocent children for now; they're too young to be burdened with such worries.

 

[Zantra]

very tragic what happened in London. Condolences from myself to everyone over the pond. I hope this day finds loved ones safe.


P.S. Bicycle Tree, you're an insensitive prick using a tragic event as a platform for your agenda. Let us hope a bomb finds you, from me to you.


Cheers.

 

[brewnog]

Things which were overheard in London yesterday
Some of them rather lovely.


Coping with emergencies the British way: The nearest branch of Pret has sold
out of chocolate cake.
---------
These terrorists are rubbish.

They'll be caught next week, having successfully demonstrated that the
British react to terrorism with indifference. We grew up with it, you see.
What with this being a civilised country, they will not receive the death
penalty, but be locked up for the rest of their lives, to be regularly
sodomised by other inmates while they slowly realize that their
interpretation of their religion is a pile of old hokum. Whoops. Meanwhile,
I'll be out in London, partying.
---------
Photo of the statue of Edith Cavell, British nurse who was killed in the
first world war: "Patriotism is not enough: I must have no hatred or
bitterness for anyone".
---------
On days like this, the music radio stations play sad music - if they play
any music at all. I turned on the radio in the bathroom when I was taking my
shower just now, and they were playing One by U2.

HAVEN'T WE SUFFERED ENOUGH?
---------
I'm watching the news, I do it occasionally, it seems like a good time to do
so. And I'm seeing a guy who was blown off his feet by a bus going up, but
basically he's okay and being interviewed. And, shock allowed, he's pretty
much laughing it off. Another interview, a woman who was on the tube, just
the same response but maybe a little more detailed.

I love the UK sometimes, I really do. What happened is horrible, I don't
diminish it and I hope those responsible are suitably punished, possibly
with chainsaws ... but if they wanted terror well, they probably shouldn't
have gone to London. Not because Londoners are particularly braver than
anyone else (although they might be, have you seen the prices there?) but
because they've walked through a helluva lot worse than that.

Nice try, no cigar.
---------
Was at Tavistock Square - close enough to get a nose-bleed, but not close
enough to get showered by debris, which really did travel up high, and also,
far enough to be otherwise absolutely fine. A bit shaken but feeling lucky.
---------
I called in sick with a migraine today. My psychic powers are awesome! [(I
told him my girlfriend also was sick).]

She and I should form a psychic taskforce! Anywhere we don't want to go,
THERE BE BOMBS!
---------
All these explosions are rather scary.
Don't suppose the French are that sore at losing are they?
---------
People saying 'I've lived in London for four years, I'm sort of prepared for
this sort of thing.'
---------
"Speaking on behalf of the people of Essex, we are standing by you the
peoples of Londonia in these trying times. Mainly because Suffolk won't swap
places with us."
---------
Gosh.
Probably not going up to Angel today then.
---------
Got back from a meeting to find 9 missed calls and 12 emails. Thanks for the
concern :)
I'm fine, luckily I get the tube (through liverpool street) at about
7.10am... Tavistock square is GODDAMN CLOSE TO MY HOUSE, dammit.
---------
The witnesses on the news seem to be very calm. Most of the Londoners are
more concerned with how they're getting to work tomorrow, and act as though
it's all a rather distasteful inconvenience.

HURRAH! The great British Spirit triumphs once again! Take that, Al Quaeda.
You tried to spread panic with your terrorist ways, but you hadn't counted
on a nation of repressed, stiff-upper-lip Brits who refuse to show unseemly
emotion in public!

People are generally spooked, but quickly contacting their friends and
making plans to deal with the disruption. Good on you!
-------
BBC Parliament internal email: NEWSFLASH:
There has been a widespread outbreak of grumbling and tutting today in
London, along with a large number of people going home instead of to work,
with a certain amount of guilty pleasure.

Sorry, bad guys. We've been bombed before, and we just adjust our day to
account for it. This is London calling.
-------
It was just announced that the queen is deeply shocked and that it has been
decided that the Congestion charge will not be in place today - how I love
the British.
-------
"I'd like to congratulate today's terrorists for achieving nothing but
instilling a fierce patriotism back into the British Isles, creating a
rather wide-spread rash of Blitz Spirit, and giving me a day off work. I'm a
bit pissed off that you nearly blew up some of my friends, but at the end of
the day - you failed. We're still here, we're not scared of you."
---------
God, I wish I'd brought my decent camera.
-------
The people of London have responded to all this exactly the way I always
imagined we would; with humour, strength and defiance. I've never been more
proud to be British, and never more proud to be a Londoner. Pip pip.
-------
God I love the British...
Nobody does pissed off disdain like 'em...
This *rules*
--------
Okay: it's ****ing INCREDIBLE what a medium Farmhouse Pizza can do to lift
one's mood at a time like this.

 

[hypatia]

Thank you for posting that, I needed to smile today.

 

[fuzzyfelt]

Really lovely, Brewnog.
It really feels like that.

 

[PerennialII]

Good pick Brewnog !