Which logical fallacies are these?

[27Thousand]

Do you ever get the feeling that people tell you not to think for yourself? How do you personally deal with situations like these? :

1. When I was a kid, I would watch a Science show where they'd use the phrase "Understanding the World Around You." So then I made "my own" phrase, "Conceptualize the world around you." I never read that from a book, I made that phrase up on my own. So decades later, I was with roommates at college. When talking with one of the roommates, I said, "Oh, I'm just trying to 'conceptualize' the world around me." He said, "Uh uh uh, not from a book, LOL!" Then I said, "That's not from a book!" Him, "Not from a book, LOL!" Any intelligent person knows that's not from a book, and I felt like he was trying to say I can't have any thoughts or feelings of my own since everything is automatically from a book. I mean, how would you respond if someone told you that you can't go to the grocery store because it's found in a dictionary? Then later that day, he was like, "I'm going to be creative, LOL." Then he quoted some lines from the movie Princess Bride. I don't understand, you hear people all the time quote lines from Princess Bride/other movies and I'm pretty sure they're found in a book. Why is "Conceptualize the world around me" any worse, when I haven't seen it in a book? Am I wrong if something doesn't seem right here?

2. Another time I saw one of my roommates walking up the stairs. I thought to myself that if each time he made it half way up the stairs and it put him back at the bottom again, he probably would give up eventually, "operant conditioning extinction". Then the roommate who earlier said not from a book asked me why the other roommate went up the stairs. I was taking a behavioral analysis class that semester and was trying to apply what I was learning in out of the ordinary situations. I said, "He took the first step up the stairs because it was reinforced by the opportunity to take a step up the next stair which was reinforced by the opportunity for the next stair, creating a chaining behavior to get to the top and into his bedroom." My roommate responded, "That's not creative! Be creative! LOL" Me, "What do you think is creative?" Him, "He was tired, that's why he went up the stairs." I don't get it, you hear people all the time say that such and such is tired? If I want to apply what I learn in unusual ways, why is that being less original then someone giving typical layman responses? Do you ever try to apply what you learn? Does that mean you should forget everything you know so that you can be creative? I felt like he was saying that I shouldn't have any thoughts or feelings. If someone told you not to eat breakfeast because others have thought of breakfeast before and you need to be creative, what would you think? I could be wrong, but didn't Einstein say he wasn't trying create, but rather make new discoveries?

3. One last situation, but first some background information: In my A.P. high school psychology class, we learned that there used to be some people who believed evil spirits caused mental disorders. They then would drill holes in the heads of the person acting crazy and it would make them stop acting weird, in reality brain damage, so they thought that it released the evil spirits and so called "confirmed what they believed". So years later, with these same roommates, one of them asked me what I thought the main weakness of the scientific method was. Me, "It's always possible that there is another theory out there that can explain the same exact evidence better." Him, "Well, all you have to do is rule out all other theories." Then I said no matter how hard you try it's always possible there's another possibility, and made up my own example, using how they thought there were evil spirits, etc, and how you could hypothetically set up an experiment saying, "If the theory that evil spirits are causing it is true, then we'd predict the observation of drilling in their heads will release the evil spirits causing them to stop acting weird. However, you wouldn't prove because the better explanation would be that there was really brain damage, which they weren't able to find out until hundreds of years later." (I never saw that example from a book) Then my roommate said, "Nope, not from a book." Me, "That's not from a book, I made up that example myself!" Him, "Not from a book! Anyway, the weakness of the Scientific Method is that you come up with a null hypothesis, and it's always possible that the null may be true." That seemed unfair, because you hear about the null hypothesis all the time in college textbooks, and scientific theories change more often because they find a better theory for the evidence rather than finding out the null is true. Then later he was talking about a study where they found people are more attracted to symmetrical faces, and you hear about those studies all the time from "books".

I don't understand? I could be wrong, but why does a "book" matter? Galileo said the world revolved around the sun, but that wasn't his idea. He "read" about it from Copernicus, "from a book", and then worked it out for himself. Does that mean he was a bad person?

Are there any logical fallacies/flaws in thinking? How do you have better communication in these situations?

 

[Pengwuino]

My god... can you just sum this all up into some actual questions instead of this massive wall of nonsense? I mean really, did your roommates actually "LOL", did they spell out the acronym verbally? I read your entire post and I'm still not sure what you asked.

 

[DaveC426913]

27K, your roommates are just yanking your chain. They are not interested in discussing or debating or inquiring like you are, so they're just making fun of you.

Why do you care so much? Hopefully, these roommates are just drinking buddies, not your intellectual confidantes. If they're your peers, it's time to get some new friends who share your interests.

You're a bit of a nerd (you found your way here didn't you?), find some friends who have a bit if nerdiness in them. Or just hang out here on PF.

 

[G01]

Penguino is right. You really need to sum this up into a question of some sort. I know your trying to ask something, but I'm not exactly sure what.

From what I can gather you want to know why your roommates won't accept answers to questions from books?

Is that your question?

If so, your roomates sound like they are purposely trying to annoy you. I'd ignore them. If you want to have an intelligent conversation, find another group of people who are capable of having one. These roommates aren't.

Also, I second Dave's question: Why do you care. If you let them get to you, it's just going to encourage their behavior and make the situation worse. Don't let them get to you.

 

[Ophiolite]

Hi 3³ thousand,
I tend to agree with Pengwuino: what the hell was all that about?
But I'll try to address some of your points - or at least what I think your points are.

Do you ever get the feeling that people tell you not to think for yourself? How do you personally deal with situations like these?

I ignore them. Why would I do anything else? Since I am paid a not inconsiderable sum to encourage others to think for themselves it would be rather peculiar if I avoided my own advice.

"Oh, I'm just trying to 'conceptualize' the world around me." He said, "Uh uh uh, not from a book, LOL!" Then I said, "That's not from a book!" Him, "Not from a book, LOL!" Any intelligent person knows that's not from a book, and I felt like he was trying to say I can't have any thoughts or feelings of my own since everything is automatically from a book.

In example 2 you speak about reinforcing behaviour and chaining. It seems your roomate has you down as a geek. Anytime you come up with an unusual phrase he presumes you have got it out of a book. From your own examples this is often the case, so his presumption is not automatically a bad one. It appears he was just poking some gentle fun at you - "Yeah man, 'conceptualize the world around me'! That didn't come out of a book. Of course it didn't."

Then later that day, he was like, "I'm going to be creative, LOL." Then he quoted some lines from the movie Princess Bride. I don't understand, you hear people all the time quote lines from Princess Bride/other movies and I'm pretty sure they're found in a book.

I have never even heard of the Princess Bride, so we obviously move in different circles.

Frankly you have not given enough information to know whether he was being creative or not. Using quotes in an unusual way to highlight an unexpected correlation could be very creative.

"He took the first step up the stairs because it was reinforced by the opportunity to take a step up the next stair which was reinforced by the opportunity for the next stair, creating a chaining behavior to get to the top and into his bedroom."

Geek alert!

If I want to apply what I learn in unusual ways, why is that being less original then someone giving typical layman responses? Do you ever try to apply what you learn? Does that mean you should forget everything you know so that you can be creative? I felt like he was saying that I shouldn't have any thoughts or feelings.

It sounds like you could use a course or two in social skills. There is nothing wrong in spouting technical interpretations of everyday events, but if you choose to do so you must recognise that it is abnormal behaviour and will be ridiculed by most people. What your roomate was probably saying was "Dude, I just want to know why he went upstairs. I don't want a psych 101 lecture." Or he may have been saying, "There you go again dude, just spewing out a bunch of material from your lectures. You could have said the same thing about anything that anyone did. Where is the orginality in that. We all got that ages ago, yet you keep introducing it as if it were still new and shiny."

Your point 3. was simply too incoherent to understand.

Are there any logical fallacies/flaws in thinking?

Of course.

How do you have better communication in these situations?

Understand the social context of the situation before imposing your egocentric spin on it.

 

[G01]

It sounds like you could use a course or two in social skills. There is nothing wrong in spouting technical interpretations of everyday events, but if you choose to do so you must recognise that it is abnormal behaviour and will be ridiculed by most people. What your roomate was probably saying was "Dude, I just want to know why he went upstairs. I don't want a psych 101 lecture." Or he may have been saying, "There you go again dude, just spewing out a bunch of material from your lectures. You could have said the same thing about anything that anyone did. Where is the orginality in that. We all got that ages ago, yet you keep introducing it as if it were still new and shiny."

This analysis makes sense. If your roommate was casually asking why your other roommate went upstairs, I could understand why he got annoyed if you gave him an answer involving operant conditioning.

 

[DaveC426913]

I have never even heard of the Princess Bride, so we obviously move in different circles.

Okay, it appears it is me who's on the wrong planet.

Yesterday: https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=2250710&postcount=6"
Today: What is this "The Princess Bride"?

All this time I thought this was Earth...

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

"The Princess Bride"

Was Matt Damon in that?

 

[0xDEADBEEF]

It seems some of your neurotransmitters are throwing a party. You are attributing grave meaning to trivial things and your arguments run into decoherence. Be careful where you step.

 

[HallsofIvy]

Anyone who says "LOL" shouldn't be listened to anyway!

 

[JaredJames]

Anyone who says "LOL" shouldn't be listened to anyway!

Anyone who, when asked a simple why someone went upstairs, launches into a psychological reasoning shouldn't be listened to. Do you really blame someone for taking the ****?
Did he actually say LOL or is that just the OP way of describing the guy laughing? Or, was it an internet conversation on messenger or something? Looks that way to me.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Did he actually say LOL or is that just the OP way of describing the guy laughing? Or, was it an internet conversation on messenger or something? Looks that way to me.

I've seen it commonly done to exagerate the lack of intelligence in a statement and make fun of the speaker. Like the online version of speaking in a stupid voice to poorly characterize anothers comments or opinions.

 

[humanino]

I think many people here demonstrate pretty much the same behavior as 27Thousand's roommate. Already Pengwuino's "sorry I could not concentrate for so many words, can you shorten for me" is amazing. I read 27Thousand message and it makes perfect sense to whoever has encountered people with lower level intellect in their life.

First off, an answer quoted from a book is not only perfectly acceptable, if it appropriate then it is greatly welcome. With enough culture, one could play the game of always quoting books. So 27Thousand's roommate demand, although out of context since unjustified, also flirts with obscurantism and does not deserve much attention to say the least. Second, 27Thousand's answers, including the speech about the roommate climbing up the stairs, are perfectly acceptable. So he has a passion for his studies and lives them on a daily basis : just as anybody who would be able to contribute to his own field. My conclusion for 27Thousand, if I can give an advice, don't bother being distracted with stupidity around you, it's unfortunate and there are more interesting things to spend your time on. Please don't give up being passionate.

 

[27Thousand]

Why do you care so much? Hopefully, these roommates are just drinking buddies, not your intellectual confidantes. If they're your peers, it's time to get some new friends who share your interests.

Yea, they aren't intellectual confidantes.

 

[27Thousand]

The point is all my answers were not from books, and it's like they're discrediting me as a human being.

I have never even heard of the Princess Bride, so we obviously move in different circles.

Frankly you have not given enough information to know whether he was being creative or not. Using quotes in an unusual way to highlight an unexpected correlation could be very creative.

Yes, it is possible someone could quote lines from a movie in a creative way. The point I'm trying to make, I felt like he was saying that I shouldn't have any thoughts or feelings of my own. For example, if someone told you that you can't get a haircut because "haircut" is in a book, you'd think that's a lame reason. I've never seen "conceptualize the world around me" in a book, I made it up myself. So I felt discredited as a human being. Since the lines from Princess Bride are found in both a movie and a book, that's why I felt injustice.

Of course.
Understand the social context of the situation before imposing your egocentric spin on it.

I think there is a misunderstanding. I wasn't trying to be egocentric. In the second situation, the roommate asked for my opinion. In the third example, the roommate asked for my opinion. I felt like he was discrediting me as a human being, and saying not to have any thoughts or feeling of my own. My answers were not found in a book.

 

[DaveC426913]

There's nothing wrong with geeky thought-play. We all do it.

When you're bored in traffic, you calculate the average velocity of only red cars in your immediate vicinity.
When you're stuck on the subway, you psycho-analyze the other passengers based only on their clothing and the book they're reading.

But I think these two statements are key:

Anyone who, when asked a simple why someone went upstairs, launches into a psychological reasoning shouldn't be listened to.

OK well, too harsh. He was geeky thought-playing. But:

Hi 3³ thousand,
spouting technical interpretations of everyday events, but if you choose to do so you must recognise that it is abnormal behaviour and will be ridiculed by most people. What your roomate was probably saying was "Dude, I just want to know why he went upstairs. I don't want a psych 101 lecture." Or he may have been saying, "There you go again dude, just spewing out a bunch of material from your lectures. You could have said the same thing about anything that anyone did. Where is the orginality in that. We all got that ages ago, yet you keep introducing it as if it were still new and shiny."
...

Understand the social context of the situation...

 

[JaredJames]

OK well, too harsh. He was geeky thought-playing. But:

Didn't mean it as a harsh statement directed at the OP, was a response to the post above it.

But yeah, I think you get what I mean and I agree with Ophiolite in that statement.

Amongst your peers, a question like 'why did [friend A] go up stairs?' answered in the manner you did 27thousand would go down quite well and perhaps spark more conversation on the subject. But when a random person or a person not sharing your interests asks said question, they don't want, and won't be interested in the long answer they want a simple 'he went to the toilet' or something like that.

It comes down to thinking before you speak. Consider who you are talking to and what sort of response they want.

If a strangers asks you 'what time is it?' and you launched into a speech on relativity do you think they'd stick around or just call you a wacko and ask someone else?

You are overthinking everything. By all means let your mind wander and 'apply' your learning to situations you find yourself in. But consider how
patronising you may sound to your housemates. Just consider who your talking to and give an appropriate response.

 

[27Thousand]

My god... can you just sum this all up into some actual questions instead of this massive wall of nonsense? I mean really, did your roommates actually "LOL", did they spell out the acronym verbally? I read your entire post and I'm still not sure what you asked.

Maybe "lol" was confusing. Basically he just laughed to himself.

Maybe this is a better way present my questions. I'm just trying to make logical sense of the world :

1. What if someone told you that Isaac Newton had something wrong with his thinking? Newton used other peoples' ideas as stepping stones for his own hypotheses. These stepping stones were found in "books". He should have just come up with ideas of his own. (see where I'm coming from) Albert Einstein was even more so. Einstein said he wasn't trying to create, but rather discover. Einstein had a sense of wonder and was very self-educated, which got in the way of creativity, because when that happens you thoughts run through your head that others have had at some point in time.

2. Or, let's say someone told you Albert Einstein was screwed up because hen he was a kid, he spent three weeks proving the Pythagorean Theorem to himself. This person tells you that Einstein should have just been creative and come up with ideas of his own, because the theorem was found in a book. Einstein also thought of hypothetical experiments to test his professors ideas in class, which made them impatient with Einstein. "Experiments" were found in a book at the time, so he should have been more creative, because it's always possible to come up with an idea that's better than "experiments". (see what I'm saying about this logic) Galileo also said the world revolves around the sun, which he didn't make up for himself, but rather from a book by Copernicus. Galileo wanted to understand things for himself. He didn't invent the telescope, but rather put his own spin on it. Galileo should have been creative and come up with ideas of his own, rather than working with other peoples' ideas.


Do you see why I think there's something wrong with the logic?

 

[JaredJames]

Now you've made it worse.

Firstly, you just compared yourself to two of the greatest (and based on what they each did, most creative) scientists ever but let's ignore that for now.

Right,extremely confusing. From what I can gather, they are making fun of you. They do not mean what they say. Telling you to 'be more creative' is just to poke fun at you.

You say things like "any intelligent person knows that's not from a book". What? You said yourself it came from something you read. Your little phrase is simply a rewording of a current one and if the housemates are fairly clever they may have seen the original and spotted you just swapped some words out. Changing words is not being creative, it's just disguising it (try it in uni and see what happens, it's called plagiarism). Applying textbook knowledge to everyday situations isn't creative, it's just doing what your supposed to with it. On my placement for my degree I have to apply my knowledge to the job, that isn't being creative, it's just doing the job I have to.

Newton, Einstein, they didn't need to be creative doing already proven/known work. The creativity comes in when Newton discovered gravity, Einstein developed the theory of relativity. Me taking my degree knowledge and coming up with a unique solution to a problem would be creative, simply applying book knowledge to a situation is not creative.

They are taking the p*** out of you and you are overthinking everything. Cater to your audience. Think about an approptiate response before you speak and cause them to respond in a way which will hurt you.

 

[27Thousand]

Didn't mean it as a harsh statement directed at the OP, was a response to the post above it.

But yeah, I think you get what I mean and I agree with Ophiolite in that statement.

Amongst your peers, a question like 'why did [friend A] go up stairs?' answered in the manner you did 27thousand would go down quite well and perhaps spark more conversation on the subject. But when a random person or a person not sharing your interests asks said question, they don't want, and won't be interested in the long answer they want a simple 'he went to the toilet' or something like that.

It comes down to thinking before you speak. Consider who you are talking to and what sort of response they want.

If a strangers asks you 'what time is it?' and you launched into a speech on relativity do you think they'd stick around or just call you a wacko and ask someone else?

You are overthinking everything. By all means let your mind wander and 'apply' your learning to situations you find yourself in. But consider how
patronising you may sound to your housemates. Just consider who your talking to and give an appropriate response.

Okay, so if I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that you have to adapt to your audience and they may say "be creative" or "not from a book" if it sounds analytical, even if it's not from a book? From my perspective, since it wasn't from a book and I made it up myself, particularly examples 1 & 3, I felt like I was being discredited as a human being. That was especially so when the roommate gave typical book responses after my responses. (null hypothesis, he was tired, Princess Bride quotes)

Using your example, if someone asked you what time it is and you came up with an alternative explanation to Relativity that you never saw in a book, and then the person directly read their watch and said they were being creative and you were from a book, when people directly look at their watches all the time, how would you feel? I felt like they were saying that I have to forget everything that I've ever learned, and shouldn't have any thoughts/feelings of my own. I know that's not what they were really saying, but I felt discredited in that sort of way.

 

[JaredJames]

Okay, so if I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that you have to adapt to your audience and they may say "be creative" or "not from a book" if it sounds analytical, even if it's not from a book? From my perspective, since it wasn't from a book and I made it up myself, particularly examples 1 & 3, I felt like I was being discredited as a human being. That was especially so when the roommate gave typical book responses after my responses. (null hypothesis, he was tired, Princess Bride quotes)

Using your example, if someone asked you what time it is and you came up with an alternative explanation to Relativity that you never saw in a book, and then the person directly read their watch and said they were being creative and you were from a book, when people directly look at their watches all the time, how would you feel? I felt like they were saying that I have to forget everything that I've ever learned, and shouldn't have any thoughts/feelings of my own. I know that's not what they were really saying, but I felt discredited in that sort of way.

Firstly, I didn't say an alternate explanation to relativity, I just said you gave them a lecture on relativity. But either way the statement would stand. By your reasoning then, we should expect everyone to overcomplicate evey little simple situation.

Regardless, I have no idea what you are talking about. I'm telling you the problem, you overthink it, they realize this and take the mick. But I don't know where you get all this "forget everything you know" tripe from.

 

[DaveC426913]

...take the mick...

 

[JaredJames]

A nice way to say take the p***. Or poke fun at (but I used those so didn't want too much repetition). Although given I've said the same thing in the last 3/4 posts...

 

[27Thousand]

You say things like "any intelligent person knows that's not from a book". What? You said yourself it came from something you read.

I do not understand why you say I got example one from something I read? I saw a Science movie when I was eight that used the phrase "Understanding the world around you". That's not a book. And if I make my own phrase where I say, "I'm just trying to 'conceptualize' the world around me", why is that any less from a book than the roommate who quotes lines from the movie Princess Bride? That doesn't make any sense? If you said to someone, "I'm tired," how would you feel if they said back, "Nope, not from a book" (because "I'm tired" is in a book)? Everything is in a book, but I didn't get it from a book. You see what I'm saying? That's why I felt frustrated when he said not from a book.

Example three, I've never seen "drilling holes in the head to release evil spirits" from a book. I heard about that years ago in a high school class. More importantly, I've never heard of it being used as a hypothetical example of how the Scientific Method could go wrong, I used it to make up my own personal example. Since the roommate brought up the null hypothesis and that's in a book, why was I being more from a book and less original, when null hypothesis is in most research books?

In the second example, your average Joe off the streets says things like "He's tired". In a class where you learn about operant conditioning, the way I applied it was quite different. Even if it isn't creative as far as adding knowledge to a field, we are talking about degrees here. Why is using something you learn in an out of the ordinary way being less creative than giving your average Joe response? I felt like I was being told I shouldn't think for myself.

 

[27Thousand]

Now you've made it worse.

Firstly, you just compared yourself to two of the greatest (and based on what they each did, most creative) scientists ever but let's ignore that for now.

I think there is a misunderstanding here. The point I'm making is if they did it, why can't others do it that way?

Changing words is not being creative, it's just disguising it

Newton is often associated with Newton's Universal Law of Gravitation. However, the Inverse-Square Law of Gravitation part of it was not invented by him, but rather Ismael Bullialdus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_square_law#Gravitation Newton synthesized and tweaked other ideas until he came up with his own.

For thousands of years before Newton, others said there was a rule that things fell to the Earth (Aristotle even said so), and after Galileo some said that the reason planets revolve around the Sun is because the Sun has a force in it. Newton then said that there must be a universal force. It sounds like he tweaked/synethesized other peoples' ideas to make his own. (most great inventions and discoveries use other ideas as stepping stones) He had his laws of motion, which he used Galileo's work on inertia as stepping stones, and years before Galileo others independently in other areas proposed some of the same laws of motion. Galileo also used knowledge from other disciplines and combined them to create some of his ideas. Were any of these ideas 100% original? There's a misunderstanding, I'm not saying I'm any of these scientists. I'm just saying if they were allowed to do it, why can't others?

 

[JaredJames]

I'm not here to discuss the discovery of gravity, I don't care who did what and when, it was a simple example using the person credited with it mostly.

Why can't others do what? You are really making no sense now.

Ok, so you got it from a movie not a book, it's an insignificant factor in this discussion. Now please answer these questions to yourself:

You took the original phrase from the movie because you liked it or whatever, yes?
You swapped the word understand for conceptualize, yes?
Now conceptualize is basically the same as understand, so you have simply replaced the word, yes?
Nothing creative, you just took the phrase and re-wrote it as your own, plagiarism, yes?

Anyhow, I really don't know what you are saying now, you are babbling and if this is how coherent you are with your housemates, no wonder they always poke fun. I have seriously lost track of this now, you are bringing up irrelevant issues with posts (the gravity one). Did it require correction when it is irrelevant to the topic (and given it was a correct statement in that he gave us what we know today)? No. So why do it. You have just proven that you massively overthink things.

 

[27Thousand]

But I don't know where you get all this "forget everything you know" tripe from.

Okay, maybe this will help in where I'm coming from. In an earlier post you said

A nice way to say take the p***. Or poke fun at (but I used those so didn't want too much repetition). Although given I've said the same thing in the last 3/4 posts...

How would you respond if someone said "Nope, you can't say that. 'A nice way to say' is actually found in book after book"? You'd probably roll your eyes at them. If they kept on doing that over and over again for every thought you had, and in return they kept on quoting lines from movies, wouldn't you think they're telling you to forget everything you know and that you shouldn't have any thoughts of your own? So if I take a saying from a TV show I saw when I was eight and changed some of the wording and then a roommate discredits my thoughts by saying "not from a book", why would I see the situation any differently?

Do you see where I'm coming from?

 

[JaredJames]

No. I give up, someone else please try this out for a bit because I'm lost. The OP makes little sense as it is and then you throw in this rather poor example (see above post). What you are saying is either 'lost in translation' as I read it. Or is just a case of you over thinking a really trivial matter.

 

[27Thousand]

You took the original phrase from the movie because you liked it or whatever, yes?
You swapped the word understand for conceptualize, yes?
Now conceptualize is basically the same as understand, so you have simply replaced the word, yes?
Nothing creative, you just took the phrase and re-wrote it as your own, plagiarism, yes?

Dude, the people who invented cell phones didn't do it out of a vacuum. Before cell phones, there were portable phones and radio waves, stepping stones. Even the words "cell" and "phone" were not their own. They saw things in a different way and rearranged. What's the difference? This is why I get the impression that you're telling me I should get rid of all thoughts.

 

[27Thousand]

You took the original phrase from the movie because you liked it or whatever, yes?
You swapped the word understand for conceptualize, yes?
Now conceptualize is basically the same as understand, so you have simply replaced the word, yes?
Nothing creative, you just took the phrase and re-wrote it as your own, plagiarism, yes?

Okay, another thread here says, "What do 'nerdy' guys like in girls?" "What does such and such like in girls" is found in movies, books, and everyday phrases all the time. That's why I feel frustrated if someone tells me I'm not allowed to think for myself if I say "I'm just trying to conceptualize the world around me."

 

[JaredJames]

What do you want me to say here?

"Your phrase 'concepualize the world around you' is so good, your housemates thought it must be from a book"?

You are comparing completely random subjects. The step between cell phones and radios is the development of the NEW technology. You just replaced one word with another. I haven't said don't do it, I haven't said don't use it. Judging by the OP neither did your friends. They're just yanking your chain. And you are overthinking it. You don't seem to take criticism well.

Who has said to you and in those words "you are not allowed to think for yourself"? You are just taking what they say as that. Which is an unscientific way to work. You are assuming that is what it means when it looks like nothing more than a bit of a laugh. The guy laughed when he made the statements, aka not being serious given the context.

 

[protonchain]

As Dave said, friends are usually either drinking/eating/chilling friends, or intellectual colleagues. This seems like a case for the former, so I wouldn't take it to heart. Half the time my 2nd roommate in berkeley (and even when I talk to him now after 4 years) tells me that I'm not going to make money doing astronomy, that it's all hopeless and I should just be doing web design all of my life. This is a far more extreme example to your own, but I had to learn not to take his bullshizzle to heart. He's not my intellectual colleague, he's my drinking/hanging out/relaxing buddy.

Anyways, as for your examples. I'm just going to pick out one that stood out.

2. Another time I saw one of my roommates walking up the stairs. I thought to myself that if each time he made it half way up the stairs and it put him back at the bottom again, he probably would give up eventually, "operant conditioning extinction". Then the roommate who earlier said not from a book asked me why the other roommate went up the stairs. I was taking a behavioral analysis class that semester and was trying to apply what I was learning in out of the ordinary situations. I said, "He took the first step up the stairs because it was reinforced by the opportunity to take a step up the next stair which was reinforced by the opportunity for the next stair, creating a chaining behavior to get to the top and into his bedroom." My roommate responded, "That's not creative! Be creative! LOL" Me, "What do you think is creative?" Him, "He was tired, that's why he went up the stairs." I don't get it, you hear people all the time say that such and such is tired? If I want to apply what I learn in unusual ways, why is that being less original then someone giving typical layman responses? Do you ever try to apply what you learn? Does that mean you should forget everything you know so that you can be creative? I felt like he was saying that I shouldn't have any thoughts or feelings. If someone told you not to eat breakfeast because others have thought of breakfeast before and you need to be creative, what would you think? I could be wrong, but didn't Einstein say he wasn't trying create, but rather make new discoveries?

You did give a textbook response. Why is the sky blue? If you said 'because of rayleigh scattering', then that would be your textbook response. If you said something like 'because ethereal dwarves had a committee meeting and decided that blue would be the best color as it matched their tabards", would have been the more amusing/weird/creative response. I think the latter is what your friend was expecting and you had given him the former.

I wouldn't try to apply your knowledge to people who don't appreciate your intellect/understanding of the world. They are more your buddies for when you need to turn your brain off (no offense).

 

[27Thousand]

What do you want me to say here?

"Your phrase 'concepualize the world around you' is so good, your housemates thought it must be from a book"?

You are comparing completely random subjects. The step between cell phones and radios is the development of the NEW technology. You just replaced one word with another. I haven't said don't do it, I haven't said don't use it. Judging by the OP neither did your friends. They're just yanking your chain. And you are overthinking it. You don't seem to take criticism well.

Who has said to you and in those words "you are not allowed to think for yourself"? You are just taking what they say as that. Which is an unscientific way to work. You are assuming that is what it means when it looks like nothing more than a bit of a laugh. The guy laughed when he made the statements, aka not being serious given the context.

I'm not saying that "I'm just trying to conceptualize the world around me" is a good phrase.

I'm just saying that if someone came to the forum frustrated that someone keeps saying they can't use the fridge because fridge is found in a dictionary, you'd say that's stupid. If someone raises their hand saying, "I'm just trying to understand. Please explain this to me" why is that any less from a book/messed up than "I'm just trying to conceptualize the world around me", when that's how I really felt? It's the same thing, just a few of the words were changed around. If in class you raised your hand saying, "I don't think I understand," why is that any less from a book than if you were to raise a hand saying, "I don't think I conceptualize what you're saying"?

That's why I feel discredited as a human being.

 

[27Thousand]

As Dave said, friends are usually either drinking/eating/chilling friends, or intellectual colleagues. This seems like a case for the former, so I wouldn't take it to heart. Half the time my 2nd roommate in berkeley (and even when I talk to him now after 4 years) tells me that I'm not going to make money doing astronomy, that it's all hopeless and I should just be doing web design all of my life. This is a far more extreme example to your own, but I had to learn not to take his bullshizzle to heart. He's not my intellectual colleague, he's my drinking/hanging out/relaxing buddy.

Anyways, as for your examples. I'm just going to pick out one that stood out.



You did give a textbook response. Why is the sky blue? If you said 'because of rayleigh scattering', then that would be your textbook response. If you said something like 'because ethereal dwarves had a committee meeting and decided that blue would be the best color as it matched their tabards", would have been the more amusing/weird/creative response. I think the latter is what your friend was expecting and you had given him the former.

I wouldn't try to apply your knowledge to people who don't appreciate your intellect/understanding of the world. They are more your buddies for when you need to turn your brain off (no offense).

So how would you feel if someone asks you a question, then you give an answer where you use something that you learned/makes sense to you in an out of the ordinary way, but still works, then the person who asked you said you weren't being creative and then gave an average Joe answer instead?

You hear the average Joe say all the time, "He's tired." In a class where you learn about operant conditioning, the response I gave was an example that people don't usually associate with operant conditioning. It may not be entertaining, but it's not a usual operant conditioning answer.

An invention shouldn't only be creative, it also needs to work. A scientific discovery also needs to work. The operant conditioning answer I gave can be tested. Also for something to be creative, I could be wrong, but it's not supposed to be copying what others say. Isn't "He's tired" more likely to be your typical response? My answer may not have been funny, but how was it less original (more thinking for myself involved) than his response? Anyway, that's not the point. I just feel he's discrediting me as a human being. If each time you give an answer when someone asks for it, how would you feel if they always said, "Be creative, not from a book"? If you said, "I think politics should be this way, because such and such happened in the past," him, "Be creative, and not from a book. Such and such happening in the past is from a book! Think out of a vacuum."

Do you see where I'm coming from?

 

[JaredJames]

Right over to everyone else, I give up. This is over thinking and complication if I've ever seen it.

Do you know what conceptualise means? I've read the definition and I'm not sure it fits exactly into what you want it to. (That's just my interpretation of the definition, someone correct me if I'm wrong).

I think you are just trying to use a big word.