Why Would an Adult Target Kindergarten Students in a Shooting?

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In summary: I believe she was found dead in his home...They just released his name, apparently he killed his father in New Jersey, went to Newtown killed his mother who worked at the elementary school (which so far is the only connection they have found between him and the school). Then he went to the school...Which news are you listening to?I don't know how anyone could do this. It's just so senseless. I don't know how anyone could do this. It's just so senseless.
  • #211


Adyssa said:
a)
d) make weapons less available

There is already an estimated 300 million guns in circulation. In a basic nutshell, the realistic answer is that making weapons less available is not an option.

We can however control the situation with bullets.
 
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  • #212


Astronuc said:
I read that in the media. We will have to wait for authorities to do their investigation. I also read the Adam Lanza used two bedrooms, and one was used to house his computer(s). Let's give them time.
Just adding to the information. Unless he completely reinstalled the operating system and/or ran it past a large magnet before wrecking the hard drive, they should be able to recover a good amount of information. It will definitely take time though. I would guess that his internet trail will be the first thing that they'll try to piece together.
Astronuc said:
Kindly ignore the members of Westboro Baptist who plan to picket the funerals. :rolleyes: :mad:
Really? Do those people have no shame?
 
  • #213


Sympathy, prayers, etc..., doesn't do any thing. It's like saying, "I'm sorry for your loss." To a person that has lost someone, that comes off as empty and annoying (or at-least to me). We need to follow models that work and try for tight gun control laws. This isn't just going to stop because you're giving you're sympathy to the family in mourning.

I absolutely hate that these children were killed but without fierce action, this will just continue on and continue on.

Look what happens today, news breaks out over a family murder suicide. Weapon of choice? Gun.

3 year old accidentally shoots himself with a gun and dies which happened back in October, and a 4 year old, this past weekend shot himself in the face... More kids are killed at home, whether it'd be from an idiot killing them or from them accidentally shooting themselves. The weapon used is a gun.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ol-children-newtown-school-schooting/1775469/



Evil people will do evil things. Like over in China where they seem to have a knife stabbing problem. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...bings/1770395/ A stabbing spree killed 20 and injured over 50 into 2010 , and now once again another stabbing takes place this time only injuring some students.

So basically, what I'm trying to get at is if you take away the guns. Disturbed people will find other ways to commit these acts of violence.

People will try to find ways of committing acts of violence, that I don't disagree with. However, you're suggestion is, "don't blame the guns!" when the guns make it much easier for them to carry out those acts of violence? A person is not going to kill 20 people with a knife unless they are in a vegetative state, but even doing so it takes time and obvious skill with killing in order to do that. A person would have to be within striking distance and the attack must strike the target's vital organs in order to have a "successful" kill.

I don't want to see the conversation dissipate within a month and people just forget like Aurora, Colorado, and talk about "politicizing" the issue when bringing it up.

More kids are dying. 100+ died (under 11) in 2010 from firearms. They may not have all been shot at once, but over time the amount of deaths add up and if you brought that fact up, you'd be demonized for it as if you were the one killing those children.
 
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  • #216
"Our son had so much love to give to this world," Mark Barden said. "He was supposed to have a whole lifetime of bringing that light to the world."

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/sandy-hook-elementary-victim-7-old-daniel-barden-230240146--abc-news-topstories.html
 
  • #217


Seriously, this thread isn't about gun control. Please leave discussions pro or con guns out. The NRA plans to make some "major statement" as they call it next week, perhaps that will be something that gives enough new reasons to restart yet another gun thread. The talk of new bans on assault rifles is increasing in the media, so I'm also considering moving some of the "gun posts" to another thread, but it's always the same thing, flamewars start, thread gets closed. Wash, rinse, repeat.

I am still in the process of finding and cleaning up recent posts, but it's going to require editing which I don't have time for right this minute. So please save the "you deleted my post, but left his" for tomorrow, it is always possible that I will miss posts.

Thank you.
 
  • #218


Evo said:
Seriously, this thread isn't about gun control. Please leave discussions pro or con guns out. The NRA plans to make some "major statement" as they call it next week, perhaps that will be something that gives enough new reasons to restart yet another gun thread. The talk of new bans on assault rifles is increasing in the media, so I'm also considering moving some of the "gun posts" to another thread, but it's always the same thing, flamewars start, thread gets closed. Wash, rinse, repeat.

I am still in the process of finding and cleaning up recent posts, but it's going to require editing which I don't have time for right this minute. So please save the "you deleted my post, but left his" for tomorrow, it is always possible that I will miss posts.

Thank you.

My apologies; edited my post.
 
  • #219


Evo said:
Seriously, this thread isn't about gun control. Please leave discussions pro or con guns out. The NRA plans to make some "major statement" as they call it next week, perhaps that will be something that gives enough new reasons to restart yet another gun thread.

The National Rifle Association on Tuesday broke its silence on last Friday's mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., denouncing the "horrific and senseless murders" and vowing to "help make sure this never happens again."

. . . .
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/...ess-newtown-massacre-214755738--politics.html
 
  • #220


Yes, the NRA plans to make a statement Friday.
 
  • #221
Six-year-old Arielle Pozner was in a classroom at Sandy Hook school when Adam Lanza burst into the school with his rifle and handguns. Her twin brother, Noah, was in a classroom down the hall.
http://gma.yahoo.com/siblings-sandy-hook-victims-face-survivors-guilt-182040434--abc-news-topstories.html
 
  • #222


NEWTOWN, Conn. – The gunman who slaughtered 20 children and six adults at a Connecticut elementary school may have snapped because his mother was planning to commit him to a psychiatric facility, according to a lifelong resident of the area who was familiar with the killer’s family and several of the victims’ families.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/1...sed-connecticut-madman-to-snap/#ixzz2FSZQnUvC
 
  • #223


IMP said:
At least some people are thinking about this logically:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25z;_ylv=3

That is logical thinking? It does not have logical basis, so I don't get how you can assert that it is logical for teachers to carry guns. That seems more like a mess than something that would avert crisis.

Reading some of the comments made it ever more laughable. "Well trained"

Just because you're well trained with a gun does not mean you are well trained under such situations liken to what happened in Aurora, Colorado or Newtown. In addition, here is a scenario:

Violence breaks, gun shots heard, perpetuator runs into the gym, whilst one teacher standing over kids on the ground. A math teacher runs out with his gun, assumes the other teacher has snapped, and begins shooting. Now all the teachers are shooting whilst the perpetuator is in the gymnasium slaughtering more people.

In other words, these teachers are trained to be teachers not police officers or swat team members. Their emotional stability and awareness in such situations is just the emotional knee-jerk reaction any common-day person would have. Bad idea, and I would never allow my children to go to a school with teachers carrying guns (if I had kids).

How about paying more taxes for police or security personnel? How about more safety precautions in case incidents like these happen?
 
  • #224


Mentalist said:
That is logical thinking? It does not have logical basis, so I don't get how you can assert that it is logical for teachers to carry guns. That seems more like a mess than something that would avert crisis.

Careful, logic is not set in stone, it is very much dependent on what a person thinks should be done and how.

Just because you're well trained with a gun does not mean you are well trained under such situations liken to what happened in Aurora, Colorado or Newtown. In addition, here is a scenario:

Violence breaks, gun shots heard, perpetuator runs into the gym, whilst one teacher standing over kids on the ground. A math teacher runs out with his gun, assumes the other teacher has snapped, and begins shooting. Now all the teachers are shooting whilst the perpetuator is in the gymnasium slaughtering more people.

You bring up a valid point. Allowing teachers to carry guns is not guaranteed to actually be any safer. Would more people end up injured or killed due to accidental discharges or shootings? Will there be teachers who threaten students at gunpoint when they get get out of line because they don't know how else to handle them? I'm sure there are plenty of others.

In other words, these teachers are trained to be teachers not police officers or swat team members. Their emotional stability and awareness in such situations is just the emotional knee-jerk reaction any common-day person would have. Bad idea, and I would never allow my children to go to a school with teachers carrying guns (if I had kids).

I think you may underestimate their ability to handle the situation, but I do agree that there are likely to be "friendly fire" situations pop up.

How about paying more taxes for police or security personnel? How about more safety precautions in case incidents like these happen?

How about realizing this is an extremely unlikely incident and not wasting the money? I believe the other thread on this incident ballparked an estimate for replacing the doors in schools with bulletproof ones at like 2 billions dollars or something. And I think that's just the door cost! Labor costs would probably be at least as much if not more. (I've seen some of these installed. They aren't always easy)

Plus you not only have to figure out what would be effective, but also whether you want your children to go to school everyday and deal with whatever new safeguards are put in place. I say this because some people advocate checkpoints and other things that would make schools more like prisons...or airports.

It's very easy to fall into the "my/our children's lives are worth any price" realm. It's much more difficult to take a step back and look at the bigger picture and figure out what works and is also feasible compared to what is just a waste of time and money.
 
  • #225


One of my associates grew up in the Newtown area. Her niece attends the middle school and was in class when it happened. She confirmed it's a very small and close community where everyone either knows each other or are related and every family is affected. I asked if her sister planned to relocate out of the area and was surprised by the response. She said if this could happen in Newtown, where could they go that would be safer?

I had no response.
 
  • #226


enosis_ said:
She said if this could happen in Newtown, where could they go that would be safer?

I had no response.

Big city schools with real police and physical security measures.
http://www.laspd.com/about.html
 
  • #227


Reuters on Yahoo said:
The family of Principal Dawn Hochsprung invited mourners to visit at a local funeral home on Wednesday afternoon, though the burial was due to be private at an undisclosed time.

Another of the teachers, Victoria Soto, was among those to be buried at a funeral on Wednesday.

Funerals were also scheduled for 6-year-old Charlotte Bacon, 7-year-old Daniel Barden and 6-year-old Caroline Previdi, while the family of 7-year-old Chase Kowalski invited mourners to a public visitation and prayer vigil.

The surviving children from Sandy Hook Elementary faced another day at home as school authorities and parents made plans for an eventual return to a different location - the unused Chalk Hill School in nearby Monroe, where a sign across the street read, "Welcome Sandy Hook Elementary!"

. . . .
http://news.yahoo.com/schools-reopen-newtown-washington-talks-gun-control-002828916.html
 
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  • #230


Thomas Jefferson on The Constitution:

"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."
 
  • #231


gravenewworld said:
Thomas Jefferson on The Constitution:
"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."

This must be part of the reason Texas doesn't like including Thomas Jefferson in their curriculum. (But it is important for Texas school children to learn about the NRA.)
 
  • #232


Demonize the entire state of Texas over some idiot like Barton? That's important to the topic. :rolleyes:
 
  • #233


WABC-TV Ch 7 said:
James Mattioli especially loved recess and math, and his family described him as a "numbers guy" who came up with insights beyond his years to explain the relationship between numbers. He particularly loved the concept of googolplex, which a friend taught him. He was born four weeks before his due date, and his family often joked that he came into the world early because he was hungry. They wrote in his obituary that 6-year-old James, fondly called 'J,' loved hamburgers with ketchup, his Dad's omelets with bacon and his Mom's French toast. He often asked to stop at Subway and wanted to know how old he needed to be to order a footlong sandwich. He loved sports and wore shorts and T-shirts no matter the weather. He was a loud and enthusiastic singer and once asked, "How old do I have to be to sing on a stage?" His family recalled that he was an early-riser who was always ready to get up and go. He and his older sister were the best of friend. He was a thoughtful and considerate child, recently choosing to forgo a gift for himself and use the money to buy his grandfather a mug for Christmas.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/s480x480/9703_10151208603359091_1417850033_n.jpg


Profiles of the Newtown shooting victims
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/northern_suburbs&id=8921731
 
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  • #234


Too sweet.
 
  • #235
At least nine funerals and wakes were held Wednesday . . . .

On Thursday, five funerals and six wakes were planned, and more tributes were scheduled for Friday and Saturday.

"The first few days, all you heard were helicopters," said Dr. Joseph Young, an optometrist who attended one funeral and would go to several more. "Now at my office all I hear is the rumble of motorcycle escorts and funeral processions going back and forth throughout the day."

. . . .
http://news.yahoo.com/funerals-become-sad-routine-newtown-084830536.html
 
  • #236


jedishrfu said:
A possible motive for the rampage came out in the Huff Post article today. They believe his mother was in the process of committing him and that he became angry when he found out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/19/adam-lanza-motive_n_2329508.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

In the article is says, "It's unclear whether Adam's mother, Nancy Lanza, was really filing the paperwork, because court officials say that such records are sealed."

Why do such records remain sealed once a person is dead?
 
  • #237


SixNein said:
There is already an estimated 300 million guns in circulation. In a basic nutshell, the realistic answer is that making weapons less available is not an option.

We can however control the situation with bullets.
Australia's gun buyback appears to have gathered 20% (600K) of the existing weapons.
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/australia
 
  • #238
BobG said:
This must be part of the reason Texas doesn't like including Thomas Jefferson in their curriculum. (But it is important for Texas school children to learn about the NRA.)
That's a gross over generalization, not supported by that NYT link, which specifies in respect to Jefferson only a list of writers who inspired subsequent revolutions.

Edit:
Written in response to some earlier NYT reporting on the Tx SBE:

Gail Lowe said:
To say the State Board of Education has excluded Thomas Jefferson from the curriculum framework is irresponsible and untruthful.

Jefferson not only penned the words of the Declaration of Independence, served as the third President of the United States and was father of the University of Virginia, but his promotion of the ideals of states’ rights and a limited federal government have permeated our nation for centuries. No study of American history would be complete without his inclusion.
http://www.texasinsider.org/poor-reporting-by-news-media-thomas-jefferson-vs-texas-social-studies-standards/

Which does not sound like words of someone that would justify the NYT's claim about Jefferson, that he is "not well liked among conservatives on the board ..."
 
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  • #242


Hrmm... I've realized that I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the title of this thread, as it emphasizes the perpetrator over the victims.
 
  • #243


Pythagorean said:
Hrmm... I've realized that I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the title of this thread, as it emphasizes the perpetrator over the victims.
It was meant to be about the perpetrator.

Someone just decided to start adding news about the victims. That might have been best left out of this thread and to the news to keep them separate. But I'll allow it unless more people are against it.
 
  • #244


nitsuj said:
I've seen very well written posts by you in the past, with thoughtfulness & sensible logic. However you comment here...simply out of context.

This isn't about some third world country governed via violence & fear. It is not how things are done here.


If there was ever a "Good" reason for a public stoning...it's preventing this from ever happening again. (please America do not put armed guards in PS)
The justice argument works a little for me. I am not arguing against extreme penalties per se. Yes, my internal justice meter says that some miscreants deserve extreme punishment, maybe more than stoning. I do accept the justice argument. Punishments appropriate to a crime is good in theory. However, like gun control it is not a panacea.

Lanza anticipated you. He killed himself. By doing so, he avoided serious penalty. A lot of the mass murderers now are immediately killing themselves.

Extreme penalties (death, torture) aren't really a deterrent for people who are willing to kill themselves anyway. This type of suicide-murder has been going on for some time. This type of suicide-murder may be becoming more common because of the Islamo-fascist suicide bombers. People see that most of them avoided society's anger. Extreme penalties don't work very effectively as a deterrent when people think they can escape the consequences of their actions.

Extreme penalties may help innocent people a little. It probably deters the professional killer a little bit. Of course, a true professional stands very little chance of getting caught. However, it may stop some from starting out. Extreme penalties may make some of the families feel better. I think this is an important consideration. Some families will feel worse. However, you may be partly right.

I wouldn't be so set against stoning and hanging if I didn't see how our Middle Eastern "friends" use it. They do manage to eliminate most crime in their countries. They hang young girls for sarcasm. They hang women for adultery. I am not even sure most of those women are guilty of adultery. They think that capital punishment applied in such a arbitrary way reduces crime. It probably does. I am not sure that capital punishment would reduce crime if it wasn't used in such a arbitrary way.

Society gets really upset when it turns out that an innocent person gets an extreme penalty. It is impossible to eliminate the chance of a false conviction without letting a lot of evil people free. When one tries to be so careful that no one innocent is convicted, then the deterrence goes away. The murderer knows that he has a good chance of escaping when the laws are too careful. I don't know what the balance is between saving people with deterrence.

Note that there are many psychopaths who are good at shifting the blame to other people. They get an innocent part to either take the blame, or even just share the blame. The extra damage done on the innocent person is part of the turn on by the psychopath. The more pain the innocent person gets, the more thrill the psychopath gets. So an extreme penalty can also be an incentive to some pyscho's. It adds to the thrill.


People who kill themselves have escaped punishment. We could see a dozen happenings like what happened in that school, and not catch a single one of them alive. On the occasion that we do catch one, the very publicity associated with his punishment highlights the fact that the others got away with it "completely".

Some one who does something not nearly as bad could be stoned because a law was set up while people were still mad at Lanza. If he later turns out to be innocent, there will be this big hue and cry to remove capital punishment altogether.

So I would be really careful about setting up extreme penalties while everyone is angry. I am not against capital punishment. However, gut reactions on such a matter are as dangerous as people like Lanza.
 
  • #245
Evo said:
It was meant to be about the perpetrator.

Someone just decided to start adding news about the victims. That might have been best left out of this thread and to the news to keep them separate. But I'll allow it unless more people are against it.

I just mean that I don't think the perp should get so much attention.
 

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