8.9 earthquake in Japan: tsunami warnings

[caffenta]

From the Reuters page:

Nevertheless, France recommended its citizens leave the Tokyo region, citing the risk of further earthquakes and uncertainty about the nuclear plants.

Talk about overreacting. Why would there be any more risk of earthquakes now than at any time? Even if I were French, I wouldn't leave. How about helping with the recovery efforts instead? Stupid frogs. Good riddance.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

From the Reuters page:


Talk about overreacting. Why would there be any more risk of earthquakes now than at any time? Even if I were French, I wouldn't leave. How about helping with the recovery efforts instead? Stupid frogs. Good riddance.

Could you please stop act like an expert when you are not – It is MOST LIKELY that there will be another M7.9 quake in the coming days.

According to expertise this will create more damage than the M8.9 quake.

 

[caffenta]

It is MOST LIKELY that there will be another M7.9 quake in the coming days.

And you got this information from where exactly? You may want to let these guys know: http://www.jma.go.jp. Apparently, you know much more than they do.

FYI, I happen to live in Tokyo. In which prefecture of Japan do you live? I'd like to know.

Anyway, I am out of this thread. Forever. Ban me from PF.

 

[Astronuc]

From the Reuters page:


Talk about overreacting. Why would there be any more risk of earthquakes now than at any time? Even if I were French, I wouldn't leave. How about helping with the recovery efforts instead? Stupid frogs. Good riddance.

That would be more of a CYA reaction. The government doesn't want to be in a position of "you told us . . . , and/but . . . ."

 

[Astronuc]

Unit 3 at the Fukushima plant is one of the three reactors that had automatically shut down and lost cooling functions necessary to keep fuel rods working properly due to power outage from the quake. The facility's Unit 1 is also in trouble, but Unit 2 has been less affected.

On Saturday, an explosion destroyed the walls of Unit 1 as operators desperately tried to prevent it from overheating and melting down.

Without power, and with its pipes and pumps destroyed, authorities resorted to drawing seawater mixed with boron in an attempt to cool the unit's overheated uranium fuel rods. Boron disrupts nuclear chain reactions.

The move likely renders the 40-year-old reactor unusable, said a foreign ministry official briefing reporters. Officials said the seawater will remain inside the unit, possibly for several months.

Robert Alvarez, senior scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies and former senior policy adviser to the U.S. secretary of energy, told reporters that the seawater was a desperate measure.

"It's a Hail Mary pass," he said.

See other comments here:

ANS has put out a brief which describes events at Unit 1:

• The plant was immediately shut down (scrammed) when the earthquake first hit. The automatic power system worked.
• All external power to the station was lost when the sea water swept away the power lines.
• Diesel generators started to provide backup electrical power to the plant’s backup cooling system. The backup worked.
• The diesel generators ceased functioning after approximately one hour due to tsunami induced damage, reportedly to their fuel supply.
• An Isolation condenser was used to remove the decay heat from the shutdown reactor.
• Apparently the plant then experienced a small loss of coolant from the reactor.
• Reactor Core Isolation Cooling (RCIC) pumps, which operate on steam from the reactor, were used to replace reactor core water inventory, however, the battery-supplied control valves lost DC power after the prolonged use.
• DC power from batteries was consumed after approximately 8 hours.
• At that point, the plant experienced a complete blackout (no electric power at all).
• Hours passed as primary water inventory was lost and core degradation occurred (through some combination of zirconium oxidation and clad failure).
• Portable diesel generators were delivered to the plant site.
• AC power was restored allowing for a different backup pumping system to replace inventory inreactor pressure vessel (RPV).
• Pressure in the containment drywell rose as wet well became hotter.
• The Drywell containment was vented to outside reactor building which surrounds the containment.
• Hydrogen produced from zirconium oxidation was vented from the containment into the reactor building.
• Hydrogen in reactor building exploded causing it to collapse around the containment.
• The containment around the reactor and RPV were reported to be intact.
• The decision was made to inject seawater into the RPV to continue to the cooling process, another backup system that was designed into the plant from inception.
• Radioactivity releases from operator initiated venting appear to be decreasing.

Since they can't see into the core, they cannot confirm the state of the core. The list is subject to revision/correction as more is learned. They could monitor the air and water for certain isotopes to get an idea if there is fuel release from the fuel.

Basically TEPCO and the licensing authorities overlooked the vulnerability of the EDGs, and their backup plans weren't properly developed.

The situation is considerered INES 4, or a local problem.

I find the media want to sensationalize the matter, while some in the industry want to minimize it.

 

[nismaratwork]

it sounds like they just don't know for sure. they're simply waiting to see what happens with the cores.

Which means they're probably stonewalling, until they know for sure... that sounds about right. A disaster doesn't change rampant corruption in the ranks of Japan's political system, but maybe this can be impetus for change. I don't mean a disaster, but the need for a strong leader to help rebuild, and one who can inspire some element of trust, and not fall to old patterns of graft through construction-yakuza connections.

@Astronuc: The one person I've seen accurately say what you've essentially done, is Fareed Zakaria, and... god help me, some Fox News anchor I don't recognize interviewing Bolton.

Lets be honest... I don't think that many of the people running the show at news outlets know enough to be LESS than sensational, and a natural reaction to that is to minimize. You also have internal forces in Japan which have always been far more complex than they appear on the surface... and disasters like this tend to expose the hand of corruption. The only thing to do is calmly talk to people and explain the reality of the situation, as you do, to the best of your ability and without overreaching.

What else can be done?

@DA: Relax... truly relax buddy. More died and more lives have been altered by the tsunami in the first hour, than will be changed or ended by anything happening at the Fukishima plant in the coming days. You're scared, and the antidote to fear is information and understanding; this is bad for Japan... terrible even, but a 7.9 out of nowhere?

 

[nismaratwork]

From the Reuters page:


Talk about overreacting. Why would there be any more risk of earthquakes now than at any time? Even if I were French, I wouldn't leave. How about helping with the recovery efforts instead? Stupid frogs. Good riddance.

Whoa... easy on the insults (no I'm not French, nor ever likely to be), but yeah, that's absurd. Still, they're responding to political pressure like any other group, from and at home. It's stupid, I'd agree, and a... bull hockey... reason to withdraw your citizens, but as you imply I hope many French people won't heed this advice.

 

[rhody]

For everyone worried about nuclear meltdown, read this:

http://morgsatlarge.wordpress.com/2011/03/13/why-i-am-not-worried-about-japans-nuclear-reactors/

Astro,

Any inaccuracies in the link provided by Jessie above, excerpts below:

This post is by Dr Josef Oehmen, a research scientist at MIT, in Boston.

He is a PhD Scientist, whose father has extensive experience in Germany’s nuclear industry. I asked him to write this information to my family in Australia, who were being made sick with worry by the media reports coming from Japan. I am republishing it with his permission.

and

The plants at Fukushima are so called Boiling Water Reactors, or BWR for short. Boiling Water Reactors are similar to a pressure cooker. The nuclear fuel heats water, the water boils and creates steam, the steam then drives turbines that create the electricity, and the steam is then cooled and condensed back to water, and the water send back to be heated by the nuclear fuel. The pressure cooker operates at about 250 °C.

The nuclear fuel is uranium oxide. Uranium oxide is a ceramic with a very high melting point of about 3000 °C. The fuel is manufactured in pellets (think little cylinders the size of Lego bricks). Those pieces are then put into a long tube made of Zircaloy with a melting point of 2200 °C, and sealed tight. The assembly is called a fuel rod. These fuel rods are then put together to form larger packages, and a number of these packages are then put into the reactor. All these packages together are referred to as “the core”.

The Zircaloy casing is the first containment. It separates the radioactive fuel from the rest of the world.

The core is then placed in the “pressure vessels”. That is the pressure cooker we talked about before. The pressure vessels is the second containment. This is one sturdy piece of a pot, designed to safely contain the core for temperatures several hundred °C. That covers the scenarios where cooling can be restored at some point.

The entire “hardware” of the nuclear reactor – the pressure vessel and all pipes, pumps, coolant (water) reserves, are then encased in the third containment. The third containment is a hermetically (air tight) sealed, very thick bubble of the strongest steel. The third containment is designed, built and tested for one single purpose: To contain, indefinitely, a complete core meltdown. For that purpose, a large and thick concrete basin is cast under the pressure vessel (the second containment), which is filled with graphite, all inside the third containment. This is the so-called “core catcher”. If the core melts and the pressure vessel bursts (and eventually melts), it will catch the molten fuel and everything else. It is built in such a way that the nuclear fuel will be spread out, so it can cool down.

This third containment is then surrounded by the reactor building. The reactor building is an outer shell that is supposed to keep the weather out, but nothing in. (this is the part that was damaged in the explosion, but more to that later).

finally at the end of the piece...

The plant came close to a core meltdown. Here is the worst-case scenario that was avoided: If the seawater could not have been used for treatment, the operators would have continued to vent the water steam to avoid pressure buildup. The third containment would then have been completely sealed to allow the core meltdown to happen without releasing radioactive material. After the meltdown, there would have been a waiting period for the intermediate radioactive materials to decay inside the reactor, and all radioactive particles to settle on a surface inside the containment. The cooling system would have been restored eventually, and the molten core cooled to a manageable temperature. The containment would have been cleaned up on the inside. Then a messy job of removing the molten core from the containment would have begun, packing the (now solid again) fuel bit by bit into transportation containers to be shipped to processing plants. Depending on the damage, the block of the plant would then either be repaired or dismantled.

Now, where does that leave us?

* The plant is safe now and will stay safe.

and, an assessment of the amount of power producing capability lost...

I believe the most significant problem will be a prolonged power shortage. About half of Japan’s nuclear reactors will probably have to be inspected, reducing the nation’s power generating capacity by 15%. This will probably be covered by running gas power plants that are usually only used for peak loads to cover some of the base load as well. That will increase your electricity bill, as well as lead to potential power shortages during peak demand, in Japan.

I feel a bit better after reading this, if accurate.

Rhody...

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

If I read this correctly, it would not be at all surprising to get a magnitude 7.9 aftershock and one of magnitude 7.7 could almost be expected. It seems there already have been magnitude 7.4 aftershocks

Bigger earthquakes have more and larger aftershocks. The bigger the main shock the bigger the largest aftershock will be, on average. The difference in magnitude between the main shock and largest aftershock ranges from 0.1 to 3 or more, but averages 1.2 (a M5.5 aftershock to a M6.7 main shock for example).

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/step/explain.php"

This site reports a magnitude 7.4 aftershock.
http://earthquake-report.com/2011/03/11/massive-earthquake-out-of-the-honshu-coast-japan/"
15:24 JST 11 Mar 2011 15:15 JST 11 Mar 2011 Ibaraki-ken Oki M7.4 6-

 

[Astronuc]

Rhody, the technical information is somewhat correct.

A BWR typically operates with a saturated (boiling) coolant at core exit temperature of about 284-286ºC. The melting point of the UO2 fuel is about 2800ºC, and the melting point of Zircaloy is about 1850ºC (3,362ºF). In normal operation, we want to keep the outer surface temperature of the Zircaloy at about 300ºC (or below) in order to minimize corrosion over the service life (6-8 years). In an accident, one would accept a short term - minutes or seconds depending on the temperature - an elevation of temperature. As temperature increases the corrosion rate increases according to an Arrhenius function.

In the case where the cladding gets to temperatures like about 1200ºC (2200ºF), it corrodes rapidly as well as balloon - large strain, and may rupture. In many safety analyses, we assume those temperatures occur over a period of seconds or minutes, but not hours. The higher the temperature or the longer the time, the more severe the damage to the fuel. Damage means that the fuel deviates from is nominal operating design parameters. Failure means that the cladding no longer retains the fission products.

I'm not sure about the description of the containment system as it applies to the Mark I containment of the FK-I, Unit 1. That's a first generation BWR containment system. It however should contain the core and PV if the PV should fail. However, at this time, I don't expect the PV to fail - assuming the PV and containment are flooded.

I expect that Unit 1 is history, and if Unit 3 is also flooded directly with seawater, this it is likely history also. The seawater contains chlorine (NaCl), which would increase the likelihood of intergranual stress corrosion of the stainless steels used in the reactor internals. In addition, boron in a BWR is an extraordinary step. If they were to reuse the reactor, they would have to flush the boron out. Given current events though, I would expect Unit 1 and probably Unit 3 to be permanently shutdown and decommissioned.

The loss of two units affects 460 and 784 MWe, or 1.244 GWe, could be replaced by other units or purchased from other utilities.

This is blackeye for TEPCO and the safety authorities.

The bottom line is that what has happened should not have happened. The General Design Criteria and responsibility of ensure the safe operation of a plant are quite clear. In the case of Fukushima, they failed.

 

[nismaratwork]

Rhody, the technical information is somewhat correct.

A BWR typically operates with a saturated (boiling) coolant at core exit temperature of about 284-286ºC. The melting point of the UO2 fuel is about 2800ºC, and the melting point of Zircaloy is about 1850ºC (3,362ºF). In normal operation, we want to keep the outer surface temperature of the Zircaloy at about 300ºC (or below) in order to minimize corrosion over the service life (6-8 years). In an accident, one would accept a short term - minutes or seconds depending on the temperature - an elevation of temperature. As temperature increases the corrosion rate increases according to an Arrhenius function.

In the case where the cladding gets to temperatures like about 1200ºC (2200ºF), it corrodes rapidly as well as balloon - large strain, and may rupture. In many safety analyses, we assume those temperatures occur over a period of seconds or minutes, but not hours. The higher the temperature or the longer the time, the more severe the damage to the fuel. Damage means that the fuel deviates from is nominal operating design parameters. Failure means that the cladding no longer retains the fission products.

I'm not sure about the description of the containment system as it applies to the Mark I containment of the FK-I, Unit 1. That's a first generation BWR containment system. It however should contain the core and PV if the PV should fail. However, at this time, I don't expect the PV to fail - assuming the PV and containment are flooded.

I expect that Unit 1 is history, and if Unit 3 is also flooded directly with seawater, this it is likely history also. The seawater contains chlorine (NaCl), which would increase the likelihood of intergranual stress corrosion of the stainless steels used in the reactor internals. In addition, boron in a BWR is an extraordinary step. If they were to reuse the reactor, they would have to flush the boron out. Given current events though, I would expect Unit 1 and probably Unit 3 to be permanently shutdown and decommissioned.

The loss of two units affects 460 and 784 MWe, or 1.244 GWe, could be replaced by other units or purchased from other utilities.

This is blackeye for TEPCO and the safety authorities.

The bottom line is that what has happened should not have happened. The General Design Criteria and responsibility of ensure the safe operation of a plant are quite clear. In the case of Fukushima, they failed.

Do you have any idea why they failed to meet those criteria? Could it have been oversight, corruption, or just an accumulation of errors? I desperately want this to be something the USA learns from, not as a deterrant to nuclear power, but a lesson in how to properly implement it.

If we can expect this kind of failure to plan however... I guess... is this universal, or a local issue in terms of how this plant has failed (not catastrophically at least)?

 

[rhody]

nismara,

From what I have read/seen this last week, my guess is the knock out blow that came from the tsunami was what put the whole reactor at risk, a cost benefit analysis would have to weigh the risks of this happening, and at what cost would steps to prevent it be. I am guessing it would be cost prohibitive to protect if the the huge wave, but I may be wrong.

Rhody...

 

[nismaratwork]

nismara,

From what I have read/seen this last week, my guess is the knock out blow that came from the tsunami was what put the whole reactor at risk, a cost benefit analysis would have to weigh the risks of this happening, and at what cost would steps to prevent it be. I am guessing it would be cost prohibitive to protect if the the huge wave, but I may be wrong.

Rhody...

Hmmm... gotcha... I'm not sure there is any protecting against this kind of event... especially had it been closer.

I'm still unclear why this plant was built in such a generally unstable region... this isn't their first quake.

 

[Astronuc]

Do you have any idea why they failed to meet those criteria? Could it have been oversight, corruption, or just an accumulation of errors? I desperately want this to be something the USA learns from, not as a deterrant to nuclear power, but a lesson in how to properly implement it.

If we can expect this kind of failure to plan however... I guess... is this universal, or a local issue in terms of how this plant has failed (not catastrophically at least)?

I'm not sure why the EDGs or their fuel system was left so vulnerable, but the site is on the coast in a region that is expected to get tsunamis and big earthquakes.

In 2007, the Kashiwazaki-Kariwa site got hit by a big earthquake. The units there survived, but there was some unexpected damage to various buildings. That alone should have prompted a review of all sites.

The problems at FK could be due to oversight. There will certainly be an investigation.

Be sure that the NRC is going to look at US industry. However, there is already a program in the US to look at EDGs in order to ensure their integrity. In addition to NRC, we have INPO, and you can bet they will scrutinize the industry with respect to the ECCS reliability. We already do.

The EDGs and their fuel supply should have been put in a location, and housed, such that they were not vulnerable to tsunami. That is a fundamental requirement for a site like FK.

 

[nismaratwork]

I'm not sure why the EDGs or their fuel system was left so vulnerable, but the site is on the coast in a region that is expected to get tsunamis and big earthquakes.

In 2007, the Kashiwazaki-Kariwa site got hit by a big earthquake. The units there survived, but there was some unexpected damage to various buildings. That alone should have prompted a review of all sites.

The problems at FK could be due to oversight. There will certainly be an investigation.

Be sure that the NRC is going to look at US industry. However, there is already a program in the US to look at EDGs in order to ensure their integrity. In addition to NRC, we have INPO, and you can bet they will scrutinize the industry with respect to the ECCS reliability. We already do.

The EDGs and their fuel supply should have been put in a location, and housed, such that they were not vulnerable to tsunami. That is a fundamental requirement for a site like FK.

Thanks Astronuc... it's... well... trippy to have someone so knowledge to be here answering these questions.

I'm glad to hear that the USA isn't making the same errors, and I'm saddened, but not surprised to hear that it's likely corruption that led to this in Japan. I love Japan, but the political realities there would make Machiavelli sweat bood.

So, they really knew this could come, and above all banked that it wouldn't happen during their lifetimes? Sad... I can only hope this is a way to progress, not a setback... now is the time for the NRC and DoE to push for new plant designs and enough NIMBY. Now... if there would just be a senator with testicular fortitude to help... oy.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

And you got this information from where exactly?

[URL]http://www.geofys.uu.se/rb/reynir.JPG[/URL]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynir_B%C3%B6dvarsson"
Seismologist
Uppsala University in Sweden

After the tsunami disaster in Asia is expected thousands of aftershocks to follow, said SVT text. Even on Saturday morning, several tremors occurred and several measuring over 6.0 on the Richter scale and some of them up to 7, 0.

According seismologist Reynir Bödvarsson, at Uppsala University, says that after such a big earthquake aftershocks are both numerous and large.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aftershock

Impact of aftershocks

Aftershocks are dangerous because they are usually unpredictable, can be of a large magnitude, and can collapse buildings that are damaged from the main shock.

All the data is out there, for laymen like you and me, if you just look for it:

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_big.php"

------------------------------------------------------------------
MAG   UTC DATE-TIME          REGION
------------------------------------------------------------------
5.1   2011/03/13 15:08:52    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/13 14:48:00    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/13 14:41:22    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/13 14:40:32    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 14:31:58    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/13 13:16:32    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 12:42:33    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.0   2011/03/13 11:37:32    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/13 11:01:23    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 10:59:00    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 10:04:04    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/13 09:52:31    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/13 09:25:08    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 09:13:00    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 08:43:24    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/13 08:26:21    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.9   2011/03/13 07:56:45    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/13 07:04:36    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 06:37:50    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/13 04:40:29    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 04:36:14    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/13 04:23:24    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 04:12:56    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/13 02:57:15    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/13 02:51:25    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/13 02:48:20    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/13 02:42:29    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 02:39:25    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.2   2011/03/13 02:23:37    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/13 01:42:54    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.2   2011/03/13 01:26:07    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/13 00:47:05    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 00:43:17    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 23:51:24    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 23:40:49    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 23:37:24    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.1   2011/03/12 23:24:50    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/12 23:20:42    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/12 22:31:27    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.3   2011/03/12 22:12:46    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/12 21:58:17    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/12 21:48:09    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 21:40:58    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 21:38:35    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 20:09:55    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 20:08:25    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 19:11:59    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.0   2011/03/12 17:19:24    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 17:11:09    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 17:01:22    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 16:38:45    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 16:22:15    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.7   2011/03/12 14:43:09    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/12 14:35:00    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/12 14:03:30    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 13:57:12    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/12 13:26:56    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.4   2011/03/12 13:15:42    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/12 12:53:50    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.7   2011/03/12 11:46:01    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.1   2011/03/12 10:53:31    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 10:39:12    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/12 10:34:49    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/12 10:20:22    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 10:00:26    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 09:40:44    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 09:27:12    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/12 09:18:56    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 09:00:03    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 08:52:50    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 08:13:42    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 07:54:10    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 07:18:53    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 07:13:35    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 07:07:32    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 06:36:00    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/12 06:18:43    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/12 06:10:44    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 06:10:23    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 06:00:25    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 05:58:59    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 05:14:51    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/12 04:52:58    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 04:47:19    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 04:43:04    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 04:06:09    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 03:54:48    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/12 03:34:46    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/12 03:29:28    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.7   2011/03/12 03:11:59    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/12 03:01:49    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/12 02:47:36    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 02:43:11    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 02:34:05    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 01:59:44    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.8   2011/03/12 01:47:16    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.2   2011/03/12 01:46:21    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 01:43:20    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.0   2011/03/12 01:34:10    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 01:25:04    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/12 01:17:02    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 01:03:59    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/12 00:45:10    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 00:39:37    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 00:25:08    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 00:21:25    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 23:59:21    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 23:58:04    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 23:53:29    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 23:40:12    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 23:26:51    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 23:21:22    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 22:54:28    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/11 22:51:18    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 22:42:59    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 22:36:57    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 21:41:58    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 21:00:46    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 20:41:24    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 20:36:10    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 20:34:40    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 20:23:44    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.3   2011/03/11 20:11:23    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.6   2011/03/11 19:46:49    NEAR THE WEST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 19:45:24    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 19:24:29    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.1   2011/03/11 19:02:59    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.2   2011/03/11 18:59:15    NEAR THE WEST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 18:44:06    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.9   2011/03/11 18:17:06    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.7   2011/03/11 18:11:24    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 17:50:01    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 17:32:14    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 17:30:48    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 17:23:57    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 17:17:00    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 17:12:41    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 16:55:53    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 16:34:22    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 16:20:52    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 16:11:27    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 16:04:53    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 15:55:23    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 15:50:59    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 15:46:02    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 15:42:05    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 15:32:34    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/11 15:19:38    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.2   2011/03/11 15:13:15    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 15:01:39    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/11 14:56:16    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 14:54:04    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 14:44:08    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 14:26:31    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 14:20:20    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 14:10:39    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 14:00:38    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 13:55:28    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 13:48:38    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/11 13:43:10    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/11 13:34:36    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 13:31:55    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/11 13:16:50    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 13:15:45    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 13:02:43    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 12:59:21    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 12:54:52    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/11 12:49:01    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 12:34:22    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 12:33:19    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 12:28:45    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 12:24:37    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.9   2011/03/11 12:12:53    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 12:04:16    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 11:56:16    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 11:54:02    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/11 11:46:47    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/11 11:44:28    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.5   2011/03/11 11:36:39    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.7   2011/03/11 11:21:02    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 11:16:51    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 11:13:12    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 11:10:58    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/11 11:00:51    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 10:58:06    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 10:52:08    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 10:45:46    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 10:35:36    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.9   2011/03/11 10:28:44    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/11 10:20:27    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.0   2011/03/11 10:10:35    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 09:59:57    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 09:47:02    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 09:42:22    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 09:37:08    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 09:09:15    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 09:04:10    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 09:00:20    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 08:52:26    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 08:46:48    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.9   2011/03/11 08:40:56    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.1   2011/03/11 08:31:08    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.5   2011/03/11 08:19:24    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.2   2011/03/11 08:15:41    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.2   2011/03/11 08:12:05    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 08:10:31    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.9   2011/03/11 08:01:59    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/11 07:56:16    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.7   2011/03/11 07:54:45    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/11 07:42:55    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.9   2011/03/11 07:38:27    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.1   2011/03/11 07:28:12    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.1   2011/03/11 07:25:33    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.3   2011/03/11 07:14:59    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.9   2011/03/11 07:13:47    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/11 07:11:00    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.3   2011/03/11 06:57:15    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.3   2011/03/11 06:48:47    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
7.1   2011/03/11 06:25:51    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.8   2011/03/11 06:15:40    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.4   2011/03/11 06:07:22    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.4   2011/03/11 06:06:11    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
8.9   2011/03/11 05:46:24    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN
------------------------------------------------------------------

= 222 Earthquakes M5.0+ near Honshu, after the M8.9 quake.

You say you live in Tokyo? And you didn’t feel one of these?? Not even the M7.1?

Amazing...

Anyway, I am out of this thread. Forever. Ban me from PF.

Relax, there’s no need to be melodramatic.

There is also no need to call people "Stupid frogs" when there’s a big catastrophe with maybe 10,000+ killed, and there is no need for name-calling on CNN etc, when acting in the same "manner", but in opposite direction...

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I read somewhere, but can't back it up, that the Fukushima site was designed to withstand a Magnitude 8.2 earthquake. I don't know how to apply that to the current situation. The earthquake was Magnitude 8.9, but the plant was not at the epicenter, so how do you compare? You could say that my house here in the People's Republic withstood a magnitude 8.9 earthquake as well. I think they tried to shut down after the earthquake, but before the tsunami. In the sense that the control rods were correctly positioned, the shut down was a success. However, the cooling systems failed. I can't get a sense of why they failed. Was it because of the earthquake, the tsunami, or human error?

 

[nismaratwork]

[URL]http://www.geofys.uu.se/rb/reynir.JPG[/URL]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynir_B%C3%B6dvarsson"
Seismologist
Uppsala University in Sweden





All the data is out there, for laymen like you and me, if you just look for it:

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_big.php"

------------------------------------------------------------------
MAG   UTC DATE-TIME          REGION
------------------------------------------------------------------
5.1   2011/03/13 15:08:52    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/13 14:48:00    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/13 14:41:22    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/13 14:40:32    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 14:31:58    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/13 13:16:32    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 12:42:33    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.0   2011/03/13 11:37:32    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/13 11:01:23    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 10:59:00    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 10:04:04    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/13 09:52:31    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/13 09:25:08    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 09:13:00    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 08:43:24    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/13 08:26:21    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.9   2011/03/13 07:56:45    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/13 07:04:36    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 06:37:50    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/13 04:40:29    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 04:36:14    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/13 04:23:24    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 04:12:56    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/13 02:57:15    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/13 02:51:25    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/13 02:48:20    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/13 02:42:29    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 02:39:25    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.2   2011/03/13 02:23:37    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/13 01:42:54    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.2   2011/03/13 01:26:07    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/13 00:47:05    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/13 00:43:17    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 23:51:24    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 23:40:49    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 23:37:24    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.1   2011/03/12 23:24:50    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/12 23:20:42    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/12 22:31:27    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.3   2011/03/12 22:12:46    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/12 21:58:17    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/12 21:48:09    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 21:40:58    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 21:38:35    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 20:09:55    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 20:08:25    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 19:11:59    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.0   2011/03/12 17:19:24    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 17:11:09    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 17:01:22    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 16:38:45    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 16:22:15    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.7   2011/03/12 14:43:09    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/12 14:35:00    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/12 14:03:30    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 13:57:12    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/12 13:26:56    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.4   2011/03/12 13:15:42    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/12 12:53:50    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.7   2011/03/12 11:46:01    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.1   2011/03/12 10:53:31    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 10:39:12    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/12 10:34:49    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/12 10:20:22    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 10:00:26    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 09:40:44    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 09:27:12    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/12 09:18:56    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 09:00:03    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 08:52:50    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 08:13:42    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 07:54:10    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 07:18:53    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 07:13:35    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 07:07:32    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 06:36:00    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/12 06:18:43    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/12 06:10:44    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 06:10:23    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 06:00:25    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 05:58:59    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 05:14:51    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/12 04:52:58    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 04:47:19    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 04:43:04    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 04:06:09    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 03:54:48    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/12 03:34:46    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/12 03:29:28    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.7   2011/03/12 03:11:59    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/12 03:01:49    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/12 02:47:36    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 02:43:11    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 02:34:05    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 01:59:44    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.8   2011/03/12 01:47:16    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.2   2011/03/12 01:46:21    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/12 01:43:20    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.0   2011/03/12 01:34:10    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 01:25:04    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/12 01:17:02    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/12 01:03:59    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/12 00:45:10    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 00:39:37    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 00:25:08    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/12 00:21:25    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 23:59:21    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 23:58:04    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 23:53:29    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 23:40:12    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 23:26:51    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 23:21:22    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 22:54:28    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/11 22:51:18    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 22:42:59    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 22:36:57    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 21:41:58    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 21:00:46    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 20:41:24    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 20:36:10    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 20:34:40    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 20:23:44    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.3   2011/03/11 20:11:23    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.6   2011/03/11 19:46:49    NEAR THE WEST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 19:45:24    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 19:24:29    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.1   2011/03/11 19:02:59    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.2   2011/03/11 18:59:15    NEAR THE WEST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 18:44:06    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.9   2011/03/11 18:17:06    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.7   2011/03/11 18:11:24    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 17:50:01    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 17:32:14    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 17:30:48    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 17:23:57    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 17:17:00    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 17:12:41    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 16:55:53    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 16:34:22    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 16:20:52    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 16:11:27    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 16:04:53    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 15:55:23    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 15:50:59    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 15:46:02    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 15:42:05    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 15:32:34    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/11 15:19:38    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.2   2011/03/11 15:13:15    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 15:01:39    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/11 14:56:16    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 14:54:04    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 14:44:08    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 14:26:31    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 14:20:20    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 14:10:39    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 14:00:38    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 13:55:28    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 13:48:38    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/11 13:43:10    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/11 13:34:36    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 13:31:55    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/11 13:16:50    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 13:15:45    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 13:02:43    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 12:59:21    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 12:54:52    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/11 12:49:01    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 12:34:22    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 12:33:19    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 12:28:45    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 12:24:37    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.9   2011/03/11 12:12:53    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 12:04:16    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 11:56:16    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 11:54:02    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/11 11:46:47    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/11 11:44:28    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.5   2011/03/11 11:36:39    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.7   2011/03/11 11:21:02    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 11:16:51    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 11:13:12    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 11:10:58    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/11 11:00:51    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.1   2011/03/11 10:58:06    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.0   2011/03/11 10:52:08    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 10:45:46    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.3   2011/03/11 10:35:36    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.9   2011/03/11 10:28:44    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/11 10:20:27    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.0   2011/03/11 10:10:35    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 09:59:57    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 09:47:02    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 09:42:22    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 09:37:08    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 09:09:15    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 09:04:10    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.2   2011/03/11 09:00:20    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.4   2011/03/11 08:52:26    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 08:46:48    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.9   2011/03/11 08:40:56    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.1   2011/03/11 08:31:08    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.5   2011/03/11 08:19:24    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.2   2011/03/11 08:15:41    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.2   2011/03/11 08:12:05    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.5   2011/03/11 08:10:31    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.9   2011/03/11 08:01:59    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.6   2011/03/11 07:56:16    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.7   2011/03/11 07:54:45    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/11 07:42:55    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.9   2011/03/11 07:38:27    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.1   2011/03/11 07:28:12    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.1   2011/03/11 07:25:33    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.3   2011/03/11 07:14:59    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.9   2011/03/11 07:13:47    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
5.8   2011/03/11 07:11:00    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.3   2011/03/11 06:57:15    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.3   2011/03/11 06:48:47    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
7.1   2011/03/11 06:25:51    OFF THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.8   2011/03/11 06:15:40    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.4   2011/03/11 06:07:22    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
6.4   2011/03/11 06:06:11    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 
8.9   2011/03/11 05:46:24    NEAR THE EAST COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN
------------------------------------------------------------------

= 222 Earthquakes M5.0+ near Honshu, after the M8.9 quake.

You say you live in Tokyo? And you didn’t feel one of these?? Not even the M7.1?

Amazing...



Relax, there’s no need to be melodramatic.

There is also no need to call people "Stupid frogs" when there’s a big catastrophe with maybe 10,000+ killed, and there is no need for name-calling on CNN etc, when acting in the same "manner", but in opposite direction...

Ahhh data and sweet reason; this is the DA I know and love.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

 

[Astronuc]

I'm glad to hear that the USA isn't making the same errors, and I'm saddened, but not surprised to hear that it's likely corruption that led to this in Japan. I love Japan, but the political realities there would make Machiavelli sweat bood.

So, they really knew this could come, and above all banked that it wouldn't happen during their lifetimes? Sad... I can only hope this is a way to progress, not a setback... now is the time for the NRC and DoE to push for new plant designs and enough NIMBY. Now... if there would just be a senator with testicular fortitude to help... oy.

The Japanese industry and authorities have had a reputation for being more conservative than the US or Europe. I would not claim corruption, but at least oversight.

The new plants are designed for passive cooling system. All will probably be re-evaluated in light of the current situation.

We already do extensive seismic analysis on plant design. In addition, we'll look at each site individually with respect to it's seismic history, and we intentionally avoid building in areas of known seismic activity or too near faults. We can also design the systems with stringent criteria regarding accelerations of critical systems.

 

[Astronuc]

I read somewhere, but can't back it up, that the Fukushima site was designed to withstand a Magnitude 8.2 earthquake. I don't know how to apply that to the current situation. The earthquake was Magnitude 8.9, but the plant was not at the epicenter, so how do you compare? You could say that my house here in the People's Republic withstood a magnitude 8.9 earthquake as well. I think they tried to shut down after the earthquake, but before the tsunami. In the sense that the control rods were correctly positioned, the shut down was a success. However, the cooling systems failed. I can't get a sense of why they failed. Was it because of the earthquake, the tsunami, or human error?

One designs a system based on accelerations (forces) applied to each system - fuel, core, control systems, pressure vessel and cooling systems, emergency core cooling systems, . . . The emergency diesel generators (EDGs) are there to supply power if the side loses contact with off-site power and is isolated, as well as losing the local power distribution (station blackout). The EDGs worked for about one hour, but it appears that the tsunami damaged them or their fuel supply. The EDGs should not have been put in a location where this would happen - this is the oversight.

Someone long ago should have asked - what if we have a tsunami?

It is an absolute and fundamental requirement to design all safety systems to function. If one is building a plant on the coast where large earthquakes and tsunamis are expected, then is absolutely necessary to put the emergency systems away from the shoreline, or provide protection against tsunami.

I would expect a future investigation to look at this particular issue.

 

[nismaratwork]

Thanks for the info Astronuc, I have a lot to think about.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Thanks Astronuc.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

IAEA Director General's Update on Tsunami and Earthquake Emergency Response

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g82a36LWtcU

http://www.iaea.org/"

 

[turbo]

I have a question. How is it possible to site the EDGs and their fuel systems AND the tie lines to the plant so that they won't be affected by "the big one"? It's one thing to site those generating systems remotely, but intuitively, such separation could enhance the risk of damage to the electrical tie lines in the event of an earthquake, making emergency back-up power unavailable. If the lines are buried, a quake could sever them, and if they are overhead on pylons, they could suffer physical damage, as well.

 

[Astronuc]

I have a question. How is it possible to site the EDGs and their fuel systems AND the tie lines to the plant so that they won't be affected by "the big one"? It's one thing to site those generating systems remotely, but intuitively, such separation could enhance the risk of damage to the electrical tie lines in the event of an earthquake, making emergency back-up power unavailable. If the lines are buried, a quake could sever them, and if they are overhead on pylons, they could suffer physical damage, as well.

The issue of the vulnerablity of the EDGs will have to be addressed in time. Either they and their fuel supply is placed away from the shoreline, e.g. on the backside of containment, or they are hardened appropriately to withstand a tsunami. I'm wondering if the fuel tanks were placed where they could be knocked out by a BIG wave. If that's the case, that is an oversight.

The design bases of the Fukushima site must be re-evaluated, and remedial actions taken to prevent future failures.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I'm wondering if the fuel tanks were placed where they could be knocked out by a BIG wave. If that's the case, that is an oversight.

The design bases of the Fukushima site must be re-evaluated, and remedial actions taken to prevent future failures.

It is a little late for remedial action to regain confidence. Such a pedestrian oversight is unforgivable!

The Japanese invented the word tsunami. It's not like they didn't know it could happen. Nor was it unlikely. Another case of irresponsiblity from the nuclear industry that defies reason.

Sorry Astro, I know this is your dream and your bread and butter, and I would love to think we could just start building reactors as fast as possible and still sleep at night, but I can't help but think, "I told you so!". [that's a generic you, not a you you.]

 

[russ_watters]

Sorry Astro, I know this is your dream and your bread and butter, and I would love to think we could just start building reactors as fast as possible and still sleep at night, but I can't help but think, "I told you so!".

Told who what? You say that as if you think is a nail in the coffin of nuclear power - a reason its deployment should be abandoned. This meltdown sucks, but at the moment, it isn't even the biggest piece of this particular disaster! And it's a pretty far cry from Chernobyl...and as people have pointed out many times in other threads, we could have a Chernobyl every few years and nuclear power would still be less dangerous than coal!

It, on its own, doesn't mean we shouldn't become like, say, France and get the vast majority of our power from nuclear. I remain happy to have a nuclear plant 5 miles from my house (caveat - there is virtually no earthquake or tsunami danger where I live).

The Japanese invented the word tsunami. It's not like they didn't know it could happen. Nor was it unlikely. Another case of irresponsiblity from the nuclear industry that defies reason.

It doesn't defy reason. It's a combination of the same human flaws that causes most human-caused disasters: greed and complacency. Fighting them is a struggle that will never end.

 

[rootX]

Not only there are bigger challenges for Japan than the nuclear crisis but there isn't even sufficient information to come up with any conclusions yet.

There are far more important things that haven't been determined yet
- human loss

A huge rescue and relief operation is under way in the region after the earthquake and subsequent tsunami, which are thought to have killed more than 1,000 people.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12720219

- economic loss

Sony, Toyota, Nissan and Honda are among firms to have closed plants.

Economists say the earthquake and tsunami could have a "profound" impact on Japan's economy - the world's third largest - although it is too early to make any judgements.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/business-12717260

 

[Astronuc]

It is a little late for remedial action to regain confidence. Such a pedestrian oversight is unforgivable!

The Japanese invented the word tsunami. It's not like they didn't know it could happen. Nor was it unlikely. Another case of irresponsiblity from the nuclear industry that defies reason.

Sorry Astro, I know this is your dream and your bread and butter, and I would love to think we could just start building reactors as fast as possible and still sleep at night, but I can't help but think, "I told you so!". [that's a generic you, not a you you.]

My bread and butter is working to ensure that this kind of failure doesn't happen, but more from the standpoint of the core and internals. The outside is more or less civil/structural engineering, and we have others for that.

I and others sitting in the US are wondering WT*! How could they have allowed this to happen? And I'm sure the Japanese regulators and TEPCO are wondering the same. The people I know in Japan are very conscientious - but I have to wonder about the institutional thinking.

Unfortunately, this will be another textbook case of failure in various areas.

I'm sure Admiral Rickover is rolling in his grave. He would be livid!

 

[OmCheeto]

My bread and butter is working to ensure that this kind of failure doesn't happen, but more from the standpoint of the core and internals. The outside is more or less civil/structural engineering, and we have others for that.

I and others sitting in the US are wondering WT*! How could they have allowed this to happen? And I'm sure the Japanese regulators and TEPCO are wondering the same. The people I know in Japan are very conscientious - but I have to wonder about the institutional thinking.

Unfortunately, this will be another textbook case of failure in various areas.

I'm sure Admiral Rickover is rolling in his grave. He would be livid!

I'll second that, for what it's worth.

Somehow, I think he could see the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_swan_theory" , 50 years before the term was invented.

Or perhaps we should go back even further, and find archaeological evidence of the first occurrence of the term; "**** happens."

 

[Astronuc]

The Navy does drills for those operating aircraft, ships and nuclear reactors. They are based on 'what if'. There are aircraft simulators and nuclear reactor/plant simulators. We'll have to add loss of onsite power, although I would think that has been done.

However, we have to wait until they get the situation in hand and into recovery before we can start getting answers as to what happened and why.

 

[turbo]

The Navy does drills for those operating aircraft, ships and nuclear reactors. They are based on 'what if'. There are aircraft simulators and nuclear reactor/plant simulators. We'll have to add loss of onsite power, although I would think that has been done.

However, we have to wait until they get the situation in hand and into recovery before we can start getting answers as to what happened and why.

The senior engineers and managers at General Physics were almost exclusively ex-Navy off nuclear-powered ships, including lots of sub engineers. Those guys were the most buttoned-down, detail oriented engineers I have ever known. When the DOE's problems at Savannah River became evident, our top guys were on-site in no time. Many of these guys wrote safety rules for the NRC and they were NOT impressed by the DOE - too sloppy.

I would be very comfortable with the Japanese hiring those guys to do forensic investigations on the incidents and re-evaluate their risk-assessment guidelines.

 

[hypatia]

Looks like they are keeping a eye on Shinmoedake as well. Eruptions are common in the area, but this volcano erupted in January 2011, the first major seismic activity on the mountain in 52 years.

 

[Proton Soup]

Tsunami Before and After photos

http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm


the EDG failure makes me wonder if the real issue is one of inadequate maintenance.