COVID-19 Coronavirus Containment Efforts

[StevieTNZ]

Surely that many beds aren't needed (for so long) if they are young, healthy people filling them. My inductive logic indicates they should over come Covid-19 in 15 or so mins. Barron Trump did, according to Trump.

 

[Keith_McClary]

Physicist Sabine Hossenfelder interviews astrophysicist Niayesh Afshordi about his new pandemic model.

http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2020/10/a-new-model-for-covid-pandemic.html

 

[mfb]

U.S. reports record 99,321 new Coronavirus cases as scientists warn latest surge just beginning

“We’re at a point where the epidemic is accelerating across the country. We’re right at the beginning of the steep part of the epidemic curve,”
[...]
As of Friday, 18 states reached record-high hospitalizations based on a seven-day average, particularly in the West and Midwest — Iowa, Idaho, Indiana, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, Utah, Wisconsin and Wyoming all hit records, according to the Covid Tracking Project.

Meanwhile Europe's second wave has also ramped up in Scandinavia. Norway, Sweden, Finland.

Peru reports losing over 0.1% of its population, Belgium will cross that ratio very soon, Spain and several South American countries are close to 0.08%. Mexico, the US, the UK and Argentina are at 0.07%, Italy and Sweden report 0.06%.

 

[Vanadium 50]

There is a surgical ICU that has a capacity of 12, and a cardiovascular ICU with a capacity of 20, but the Covid ICU is a separate facility apparently.

Apparently also with 12.

The 134 number makes more sense with the "99%". As I understand it they have 20 ICU beds, 12 surgical beds, 12 Covid beds and 90 "general" or "other" beds. Where there are statistics, they seem to want to be at around 75% full. Applying that across the board, that means they would like to keep 30-35 beds free.

The sources of patients are a) non-Covid, b) local Covid, and c) Covid imports.

UofU has about 1/8 of the state's beds, so its fair share of patients is about 40. That's the problem - they can take a, and most of b (probably all of b with the elimination of "non-essential" surguries) but none of c). (And in fact, they have stopped taking in c)

I can see the problem, but it is not at all well-captured by the 99% number.

 

[Astronuc]

Skynews - Prime Minister Boris Johnson has announced a month-long 'lockdown' across England at a Downing Street news conference with chief medical officer Professor Chris Whitty and chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

Very little if anything, there is no actual improved treatment in the full sense of the word, just a better use of corticoids and little more.

There have been published reports from hospital systems showing that the mortality patients hospitalized with COVID-19 has decreased since the start of the pandemic. For example:

The study, which was of a single health system, finds that mortality has dropped among hospitalized patients by 18 percentage points since the pandemic began. Patients in the study had a 25.6% chance of dying at the start of the pandemic; they now have a 7.6% chance.

(source)

Part of the decrease comes from the changing demographics of the hospitalized patients as patients later in the pandemic have tended to be younger and have fewer underlying health problems. However, the death rates appear to be decreasing even when correcting for these factors:

Horwitz and her colleagues looked at more than 5,000 hospitalizations in the NYU Langone Health system between March and August. They adjusted for factors including age and other diseases, such as diabetes, to rule out the possibility that the numbers had dropped only because younger, healthier people were getting diagnosed. They found that death rates dropped for all groups, even older patients by 18 percentage points on average.

The research, an earlier version of which was shared online as a preprint in August, appears in the Journal of Hospital Medicine.

Doctors interviewed in the article attribute the decreased mortality to better clinical practices:

Doctors have gotten better at quickly recognizing when COVID-19 patients are at risk of experiencing blood clots or debilitating "cytokine storms," where the body's immune system turns on itself, says Amesh Adalja, an infectious disease, critical care and emergency medicine physician who works at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security.

He says that doctors have developed standardized treatments that have been promulgated by groups such as the Infectious Diseases Society of America.

"We know that when people are getting standardized treatment, it makes it much easier to deal with the complications that occur because you already have protocols in place," Adalja says. "And that's definitely what's happened in many hospitals around the country."

Another good example has been adoption of the practice of proning patients -- placing patients on supplemental oxygen in a face-down, prone position -- which has been shown to reduce the need for intubation and mechanical ventilation. So, while only one pharmaceutical treatment has been shown to reduce COVID-19 mortality (the corticosteroid dexamethosone), it does not take a magic pill to reduce mortality from a new disease, just better practices and protocols.

Doctors also speculate that other factors could be reducing mortality, such as greater mask wearing by the public:

But Horwitz and Mateen say that factors outside of doctors' control are also playing a role in driving down mortality. Horwitz believes that mask-wearing may be helping by reducing the initial dose of virus a person receives, thereby lessening the overall severity of illness for many patients.

 

[Astronuc]

AP News, Nov 2 -

The seven-day rolling average of the positivity rate in Iowa has risen over the past two weeks from 25.5% on Oct. 18 to 36.4% on Sunday, according to researchers at Johns Hopkins University. Iowa’s rate is now third in the nation behind South Dakota and Wyoming. All 99 Iowa counties have a positivity rate above 7.5% and 46 are above 15%, an indication that the virus is aggressively spreading statewide.

https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-public-health-health-iowa-edaa01995141c434d19fb8f4b2ba542c

Kansas had a rolling average of 1,507 new confirmed and probable cases a day for the seven days ending Monday, based on state Department of Health and Environment data. That’s nearly 18% higher than the previous high of 1,279 cases a day for the seven days ending Friday. The agency added more than 4,000 confirmed and probable cases to the state’s count since only Friday.

https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-kansas-topeka-92816431aa5bcc3cc7b29da39576ed21

The Illinois Department of Public Health on Sunday reported 6,890 new confirmed cases of COVID-19, with 35 additional deaths.
https://apnews.com/article/virus-ou...lth-illinois-869884e2bed9784002adc835dc10b165

Dr. James Lawler, a director at the University of Nebraska Medical Center’s Global Center for Health Security in Omaha, said Friday that the state could have more than 2,500 COVID-19-related deaths by January if current trends continue without more stringent public health measures or better compliance with the measures already in place. The state has so far reported 652 deaths linked to the virus.

https://apnews.com/article/virus-ou...aha-nebraska-6968f5489c4de612512e91b035132cfd
We'll see in two months.

BOSTON (AP) — Here is a look at pandemic-related developments around New England
https://apnews.com/article/virus-ou...usetts-maine-f0df09812fa0b65b268c2e03c197a76a

An eighth grade Missouri boy died over the weekend of Covid-19 complications, becoming the state's, and one of the nation's, youngest deaths from the coronavirus.

In a statement, Dr. Lori VanLeer, superintendent of Missouri's Washington School District, said that the Baumgarth family confirmed their 13-year-old son Peyton had passed away from complications of the virus.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/13-year-old-missouri-boy-dies-covid-19-complications-n1245739
The Missouri teen is the first person under the age of 18 to die of COVID-19 in the state.

 

[StevieTNZ]

Donald Trump's Chief of Staff has tested positive for, what he calls it, Chinese Virus.

 

[Astronuc]

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...records-this-week-and-hospitalizations-surged
From https://covidtracking.com/data

    Date        Cumulative    New Cases  New Hospit.  New Fatal.
Nov 7, 2020      9,761,481     128,396      2,304       1,097
Nov 6, 2020      9,633,085     125,252      3,054       1,186
Nov 5, 2020      9,507,833     116,153      3,735       1,124
Nov 4, 2020      9,391,680     103,067      2,802       1,116

At the current rate, the US would experience more than 50,000 fatalities before the end of the year.

In the nuclear industry, we would say this indicates a lack of containment.

Update:

North Dakota reported that 309 people died from COVID-19 in the past 30 days, more than all other periods combined. The state shot to the top of the nation in deaths per capita in the last 30 days, with roughly 41 deaths per 100,000 people, according to data from Johns Hopkins. On Saturday, North Dakota reported 15 additional deaths and 1,615 new cases across the state.

South Dakota reported 252 deaths, a 98% increase in the last 30 days. It had a death rate of roughly 29 people per 100,000 over the last 30 days, according to the Johns Hopkins data. The state on Saturday recorded thirteen more deaths in addition to 1,337 new cases of COVID-19.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/doctors-fear-more-death-dakotas-175126618.html

 

[mfb]

Hospitalizations in the US peaked at almost 60,000 both in April and July. The latest update is 55800 and growing at over 1000/day, that's closely mimicking the July curve. The April curve was rising much faster.

Something is wrong with their "Currently on ventilator/Now on ventilator" data. The number exceeds the total!

 

[OmCheeto]

...
Something is wrong with their "Currently on ventilator/Now on ventilator" data. The number exceeds the total!

They should probably leave those blank for the nation.
I went through all 56 states and territories, and only 4 list numbers for "ventilator" "ever", and 29 for "now".

Actually, only one number is valid for the national "Hospitalization" section: "hospitalized now" is missing data from only 3 of the territories: AS, MP, and VI.
Everything else is filled with holes.

Only Kansas lists data for all 6 categories.
American Samoa and the US Virgin Islands list no data.

	state or	hospitalized​	hospitalized​	ICU​	ICU	ventilator	ventilator
	territory	ever​	now​	ever​	now​	ever​	now​
	…
	IN	18,273​	2,036​	3,527​	559​		195​
	IA		901​		194​		72​
	KS	4,067​	693​	1,122​	183​	337​	62​
	KY	7,844​	1,153​	1,989​	299​
	LA		644​				81​
	…
COUNT	56​	37​	53​	12​	39​	4​	29​
SUM	n/a	492,773​	55,817​	25,721​	11,078​	2,898​	2,943​

 

[mfb]

Okay, so only the current hospitalizations are meaningful in that table. Well, that's bad.

 

[Astronuc]

Nursing home COVID-19 cases rise four-fold in surge states
https://apnews.com/article/virus-ou...ursing-homes-596ef4bfe18313ae72368e2c86e85f27

An analysis of federal data from 20 states for The Associated Press finds that new weekly cases among residents rose nearly four-fold from the end of May to late October, from 1,083 to 4,274. Resident deaths more than doubled, from 318 a week to 699, according to the study by University of Chicago health researchers Rebecca Gorges and Tamara Konetzka.

Equally concerning, weekly cases among nursing home staff in surge states more than quadrupled, from 855 the week ending May 31, to 4,050 the week ending Oct. 25.

“Trying to protect nursing home residents without controlling community spread is a losing battle,” said Konetzka, a nationally recognized expert on long-term care. “Someone has to care for vulnerable nursing home residents, and those caregivers move in and out of the nursing home daily, providing an easy pathway for the virus to enter.”

The 20 states analyzed in the study were Alaska, Arkansas, Iowa, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Utah, Wisconsin, West Virginia, and Wyoming. They were selected because they’re now seeing their highest hospitalization rates for COVID-19.

Update: A mutated Coronavirus strain causes most new COVID-19 infections in Europe and was spread within the continent by tourists, scientists say (I haven't verified)
https://www.yahoo.com/news/mutated-strain-covid-19-causes-104602982.html

• The Coronavirus variant was first identified in northeastern Spain in June and was carried abroad by tourists and other travelers, the scientists said.
• There isn't enough data to suggest this variant, known as 20A.EU1, is more deadly, the team from the University of Basel, ETH Zürich in Basel, and SeqCOVID in Spain said.
• The variant has been identified in 12 countries across the continent, as well as Hong Kong and New Zealand.

It gets around.

 

[mfb]

WHO: https://www.who.int/csr/don/06-november-2020-mink-associated-sars-cov2-denmark/en/

Most humans infected from minks just got the usual virus again, but a "cluster 5" variant seems to have a "moderately decreased" sensitivity to antibodies - which might make vaccines less effective.

Denmark is culling all of its minks in farms while trying to contain the spread of the cluster 5 variant (12 confirmed cases so far).

 

[OmCheeto]

It appears we have two counties that are in the "herd immunity" range.
Gove county Kansas reported 7 deaths in the last 7 days, pushing their interpolated infection rate to over 70%.
Normally, it would have taken 3½ months for that many people to have perished.

The video in the following article makes it sound like nearly everyone in town had it. Which, if I did my maths correctly, they did.
Small town spike: Gove County, KS hit hard by Coronavirus cases

 

[mfb]

Covid-19 vaccine candidate is 90% effective, says Pfizer
This is "only" a press release for now, but given the high profile of the news I expect that we get a detailed analysis soon.

Demonstrating the safety based on the defined thresholds will take until the third week of November. As far as I understand there has been no serious side effect in their trials. By early December they expect to reach 164 cases in total, the planned end of the study. The recent upwards trend in cases in the US sped up data-taking. It is possible that the vaccine gets approved before the end of the year. Pfizer&co expect to have 50 million doses by the end of the year and 1.3 billion in mid-2021. Everyone needs two doses three weeks apart so the number of vaccinated people will be half of that. It needs extremely cold temperatures to be stored, so wider distribution might be limited to highly developed countries for a while.

90% will make it easy to reach herd immunity with vaccinations even if many people are skeptical and don't get it. It is still unknown for how long the vaccine protects people, of course.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNT162

 

[mfb]

More discussion of the press release

Some key points of the article:
It demonstrates that COVID-19 vaccines can work. The question is no longer "if", the question is when, how many, and which method in particular. It's not surprising, but it's good to finally have an experimental confirmation. And of course 90% is an excellent number. All the relevant vaccine candidates target the spike protein and all of them produced antibodies in phase I trials: If one of them works, it's likely they all work.
It looks like the immunity will last at least a year, which is great news as well.

 

[Keith_McClary]

Infectious-Disease Expert Urges For Caution Over Pfizer's Vaccine. Here's Why

 

[Astronuc]

Infectious-Disease Expert Urges For Caution Over Pfizer's Vaccine. Here's Why

I heard another caveat last night. Pfizer's vaccine requires cryogenic storage to remain viable. It deteriorates (becomes denatured) at ambient (room) temperature. That seems to be confirmed by other sources.

According to one Fierce Pharma article, the vaccines proposed by Moderna and by the Pfizer/BioNTech partnership will need subzero storage and shipping conditions, possibly as low at -70°C (roughly the lower limit for using dry ice as a source of cold). These vaccines are based on messenger-RNA (mRNA) technology—essentially a free-floating snippet of RNA that can elicit an immune response in the body. Other vaccine candidates, including those from Johnson & Johnson, Sanofi/Novavax and others, use a viral vector (adenovirus) to carry a “protein subunit” into the body; that subunit then confers the immune response. The virus-based vaccines (which is also typically the method used to deliver flu vaccine), generally speaking, are stored and shipped at 2-8°C.

https://www.pharmaceuticalcommerce.com/clinical-operations/covid-19-vaccines-chilled-frozen-or-cryogenic/

https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/pfizer-moderna-s-covid-19-shot-rollouts-could-be-ice-as-analysts-question-cold

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-...eep-freezers-into-a-hot-commodity-11599217201

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/m...estions-about-storage-distribution-2020-08-27

I haven't verified the independence sources of the articles.

One of the most advanced US Coronavirus vaccines, created by Pfizer in partnership with BioNTech, has to be stored at -70° Celsius (-94° Fahrenheit), or around 30°C colder than the North Pole in winter.

https://qz.com/1904638/covid-19-vaccine-states-are-hunting-for-medical-deep-freezers/

 

[mfb]

Infectious-Disease Expert Urges For Caution Over Pfizer's Vaccine. Here's Why

"We need to see the data". Sure, we do - but does anyone expect the upcoming data release to not back the 90% result? Of course not.

That may mean vaccinated people could still become asymptomatic carriers and unknowingly spread the virus to others.

Possible, but we know people are at least 10 times less likely to show symptoms. That means less coughing, and it almost certainly means lower viral loads in general. It will certainly help.

Haseltine also raised the question of if the vaccine reduces serious disease and ultimately affects the number of hospitalizations and deaths.

Is it really plausible that people are at least 10 times less likely to feel sick - but still need to be hospitalized at the same rate? A vaccine that only avoids infections that would have ended up mild but has no impact otherwise?

Finally, Pfizer's news release made no mention of if the vaccine appeared as effective in different subgroups, such as older people, who are more susceptible to the worst outcomes of the virus.

It couldn't achieve 90% reduction if it wouldn't work in older people, but 96 infected people in total lead to low statistics once you split this into subgroups. It makes sense to not give numbers for subgroups at this point.

 

[Astronuc]

Some sites (and media healdines) have State of Texas passing 1 million COVID-19 cases. Officially, the state's dashboard reports 974,230 positive cases as of November 10, 4:50 pm EST. Covidtracking.com reports this number. ncov2019.live reports a higher number 1,042,439, which apparently includes some probable or uncertainty estimate. Certainly, fatalities in Texas are reported at 18,863 while ncov2019.live reports 19,453 fatalities. Texas and California are both approaching 1 million cases, with Florida in third place.

The city of El Paso has brought in mobile morgues (cold storage trucks).
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/10/us/el-paso-covid-mobile-morgues/index.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/us/coronavirus-hospitalizations-el-paso-texas.html

 

[mfb]

Overall confirmed cases in the US reached 10 million this week (the day depends on who you ask).
Hospitalizations have been going up faster than in the July wave and reached a new record of 62,000.
Numbers seem to go up almost everywhere, even in New York.

Looks like new cases in Germany reached their peak and began to drop again in the last week. France might be beyond its peak, too.
Belgium's new case numbers have dropped from a ridiculous value to a still high value. Compared to Germany (with 7.5 times the population) they have almost as many confirmed cases and more deaths.
Sweden's daily new cases (upwards trend) are now as large as Belgium's daily new cases (downwards trend).

https://reuters.com/article/us-heal...as-testing-struggles-to-keep-up-idUSKBN27Q1U5

 

[Astronuc]

Numbers seem to go up almost everywhere, even in New York.

New York reported 4820 new cases today. They haven't seen a number like that since May 1 when they reported 4663 cases, and then the cases were trending down. Interestingly, the case rate is increasing, but the mortality rate is not increasing concurrently.

Washington state reported the first confirmed case (January 21), but the cases didn't take off until late February. New York reported the first case at the end of February, but then it took off within 3 days, initially in the NY City metropolitan area (including Westchester County), then spread to the rest of the state as folks traveled to and from NY City from other parts of the state, or in some cases, traveled out of state.

Meanwhile in the US

                Cumulative   New
   Date         Pos Cases    Cases
Nov 11, 2020    10,267,081  144,270
Nov 10, 2020    10,122,811  130,989

 

[nsaspook]

Get ready and stock up on supplies early.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/11/bid...ould-control-pandemic-and-revive-economy.html

HEALTH AND SCIENCE
U.S. lockdown of 4 to 6 weeks could control pandemic and revive economy

A nationwide lockdown would drive the number of new cases and hospitalizations down to manageable levels while the world awaits a vaccine, he told Yahoo Finance on Wednesday.

“We could pay for a package right now to cover all of the wages, lost wages for individual workers for losses to small companies to medium-sized companies or city, state, county governments. We could do all of that,” he said. “If we did that, then we could lockdown for four-to-six weeks.”

We had to destroy the village to save it.

 

[mfb]

These plans could evolve a lot until January.

A 4 week lockdown wouldn't destroy the village, and it would reduce cases dramatically. All the essential shops would stay open, obviously.

 

[nsaspook]

These plans could evolve a lot until January.

A 4 week lockdown wouldn't destroy the village, and it would reduce cases dramatically. All the essential shops would stay open, obviously.

I think it must be longer to be effective as a until vaccine measure and must target what's really causing the spread today. Community transmission is so widespread (even in places with strict mask and distancing enforcement) only strict, near isolation with direct family will reduce cases dramatically quickly.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/at-dinner-parties-and-game-nights-casual-american-life-is-fueling-the-coronavirus-surge/ar-BB1aWRBU

Many earlier Coronavirus clusters were linked to nursing homes and crowded nightclubs. But public health officials nationwide say case investigations are increasingly leading them to small, private social gatherings. This behind-doors transmission trend reflects pandemic fatigue and widening social bubbles, experts say — and is particularly insidious because it is so difficult to police and likely to increase as temperatures drop and holidays approach.

Even with a 'light' approach it's not going to be 'nice' or easy.
https://www.dw.com/en/how-are-people-in-berlin-handling-lockdown-light/av-55539448

 

[DennisN]

Chris Stapleton musically describes his Covid cointainment efforts and experience here. (at 10:03) (I just had to share it ).

 

[mfb]

I think it must be longer to be effective as a until vaccine measure and must target what's really causing the spread today.

4 weeks of R=0.7 "cover" 8 weeks of R=1.14, for example. If you have these in sequence you end up with as many daily infections as before but three months later. 6 weeks would cover 12 weeks, for a total of 4.5 months. That's a long time to ramp up vaccine production.

 

[atehundel]

Get ready and stock up on supplies early.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/11/bid...ould-control-pandemic-and-revive-economy.html

We had to destroy the village to save it.

Ridiculous fearmongering sentiment.

Aside from the fact that the above both verges on political territory and also asserts a baseless and largely contested scenario (movement restrictions/closures=total lockdown=total economic devestation...not at all a given), the commentary also seems to suggest that it is more favorable to let the wildfire burn out of control, and if it destroys the village, well, it is the fire's fault, not the firefighters who stood by with their fingers crossed.

I don't know how much more clear it needs to be. Losing thousands of wage earners with decades of productivity ahead of them to death or permanent health impacts WILL hurt the economy. Losing thousands of mortgage paying individuals, product and service consumers, business owners WILL hurt the economy. Stop acting like it is a binary choice here. It is ignorant and deceptive.

EDIT:

I think it must be longer to be effective

It's probably worth noting that had the US actually imposed some meaningful degree of restriction earlier there may not be the prospect of a long-term closure on the table now. It has always been disingenuous to call any measure in this country a lockdown as none have resembled anything of the sort. Business and movement have continued largely unfettered for many, many months, even in the face of orders to shelter in place. It is almost as if you believe that we have already taken drastic measures, and since they seem to have failed you trot out the boogeyman of people welded into their apartments and police on streetcorners (that would never happen here).

The truth is, any reasonable attemt to tamp an outbreak down early on has been met with politically charged fury along the lines of "BUT THE ECONOMY! MY FREEDOMS! ITS NOT EVEN A BIG DEAL!". Now that it's so far gone the only real solution just might be an actual, enforced measure similar to a lockdown, those rejecting the reality staring them right in the face are railing against the same strawman once again without appreciating how that approach got us where we are in the first place. It's time to stop letting deluded people interefere with the management of this crisis.

 

[stefan r]

I'm feeling pretty pessimistic. The case rate is starting to look like a hockey stick graph again. Thanksgiving is coming up. If the trend persists Christmas is going to be a massacre.

 

[russ_watters]

Ridiculous fearmongering sentiment...

also asserts a baseless and largely contested scenario (movement restrictions/closures=total lockdown=total economic devestation...not at all a given)...

Since we've already done a pretty hard lockdown, we know exactly what the economic fallout was and will be again if we repeat (at a minimum -- doing it a second time would almost certainly be worse). The first one caused a 31% drop in GDP; the worst economic quarter in history.

I don't know how much more clear it needs to be. Losing thousands of wage earners with decades of productivity ahead of them to death or permanent health impacts WILL hurt the economy. Losing thousands of mortgage paying individuals, product and service consumers, business owners WILL hurt the economy.

We know those numbers too; we know that the vast majority of those who died were consumers only, not producers; Old people. 79% were age 65+.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do a lockdown, but just like we shouldn't downplay the number of lives at stake, we shouldn't downplay the economic damage of the choice either.

 

[jack action]

the commentary also seems to suggest that it is more favorable to let the wildfire burn out of control, and if it destroys the village, well, it is the fire's fault, not the firefighters who stood by with their fingers crossed.

Why must there always be someone to blame when something happens?

Stop acting like it is a binary choice here.

[...]

Now that it's so far gone the only real solution just might be an actual, enforced measure similar to a lockdown, those rejecting the reality staring them right in the face are railing against the same strawman once again without appreciating how that approach got us where we are in the first place. It's time to stop letting deluded people interefere with the management of this crisis.

I wish my life was so easy, having only one binary choice: either I'm deluded or I'm not. If people don't agree with me, just 'force' them to do as I think. Life is so simple.

Considering everything happening (including how people react to this crisis), I personally chose to stay home and I let others choose what is best for their life. I would've like to help protect the more vulnerable people, but apparently it is better to disrupt everyone's life equally rather than only investing efforts on a few. Even though it is not working because nobody takes into account the fact that not everyone have the same needs/priorities at the same time. It is so sad that people don't trust others to do the right thing; What's the point of being part of a society when you don't trust its members?

Winter is coming, I'll wait inside until the snowstorm is over. Wake me up when the vaccine cured everyone's fear. No needs to fight windmills for me.

 

[russ_watters]

I'm feeling pretty pessimistic. The case rate is starting to look like a hockey stick graph again. Thanksgiving is coming up. If the trend persists Christmas is going to be a massacre.

Here's where I'm at with the current situation:

I think more aggressive containment efforts are necessary right now. But what, exactly, that means/should be, I'm not sure.

I keep hearing from government/news media that the current outbreak escalation is caused primarily by small family/friend gatherings, not schools, restaurants and businesses. If that's true, then another lockdown might not just be futile, it could make the situation worse.

But I'm not sure I believe the media/government, and I haven't seen the data myself, if it is even public. My thought is that they seem to be basing their judgement on contact tracing. But contact tracing only works on small, clear infection trails. It doesn't work on community spread, where you don't know the person who infected you, or it could have been anyone of a large number of people. And it is disastrously overwhelmed/ineffective. So it is possible that they believe small family/friend gatherings are the problem because that's all they can detect.

Bottom line, I agree with you; we're in for a rough holiday season.

 

[russ_watters]

Considering everything happening (including how people react to this crisis), I personally chose to stay home and I let others choose what is best for their life. I would've like to help protect the more vulnerable people, but apparently it is better to disrupt everyone's life equally rather than only investing efforts on a few. Even though it is not working because nobody takes into account the fact that not everyone have the same needs/priorities at the same time. It is so sad that people don't trust others to do the right thing; What's the point of being part of a society when you don't trust its members?

The news quoted a poll just now that said 50% of people would ignore increased restrictions due to "covid fatigue". I don't see a path forward here that would result in a substantial improvement in the situation -- at least not a path forward people are willing to consider. Of course, if people were willing to consider such a path forward, we wouldn't need it.

 

[bhobba]

After the total stuff up by the Victorian government, with terrible loss of life and economic havoc, Australia has got the pandemic under control again - only 2 locally acquired in the last 7 days. So it is still there, but well suppressed at the moment. But bring on the vaccine I say. We have 10 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine on the way, but, to the embarrassment of our government, they forgot to tell the electorate it has not been tested on the group that needs it most - the elderly and vulnerable - rather embarrassing when it came out. The UQ vaccine is on track to be rolled by end 2021 - but they are hoping mid 2021. Already 50 million doses are in the works just waiting for the go ahead and results are, at least so far, it is most effective in the high risk group:
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/university-of-queensland-coronavirus-vaccine-trials-prove-successful-on-elderly/news-story/414925bd8710ceef76a1fcdf9c2d7b02

Personally, and I only do it because it is harmless so there is no downside, I take the Quercetin prophylaxis of Dr Zev Zelenco:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1i7C_6H1Yq0u8lrzmnzt5N1JHg-b5Hb0E3nLixedgwpQ/edit

Whether it works or not is another matter. But his treatment has recently been published in a peer reviewed journal (even though the link I will give is from the preprint server):
https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202007.0025/v1

This HCQ thing refuses to go away one way or another - but the latest protocol of 400mg HCQ, 50mg Zinc and 200mg of Doxycycline for 5 days, I have been assured by my GP and Rheumatologist, is perfectly safe - just with 200mg Doxycycline watch the diarrhea.

Still that is just one study, others have different outcomes. Nothing has been settled.

Thanks
Bill