COVID-19 Coronavirus Containment Efforts

[mfb]

Do you have a reliable source for this?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-Donald-Trumps-hand-POSITIVE-coronavirus.html

Dailymail is a tabloid and the exact opposite of a reliable source.

 

[kadiot]

Today March 14, the last day before the lockdown. There are even greater lineups at the bus terminals for those escaping the lockdown. I even know some rushing to get out of the city. The fear is lack of food as the groceries are near empty now. The rich or those who can afford are stocking up. The poor can't stock anything. So there may be trouble in days ahead.

https://news.mb.com.ph/2020/03/13/p...ces-or-back-to-manila-before-lockdown-starts/

Also during the lockdown itself. People or workers from provinces can still get in and out of the lockdown daily, if they have company identification cards to show to police checkpoints (they enter lockdown at morning, get out at night, then back daily). I don't know what would happen if the people getting out of the lockdown has virus. They can spread it to other cities outside the zone.

https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1096493

Note the above is about workers getting in and out of the lockdown zone daily.

In Italy. I heard it was now so spread with over 10,000 positives because before the lockdown of the north. There was leak of it, and people ran to the south, and spread the virus to the entire country. Now Italy is suffering. Hope the outcome here is better. The hope is that those in exodus outside the lockdown yesterday and today don't carry the virus.

Key points from President Duterte's press conference:

1. Provincial quarantine if more than 2 positive COVID-19 cases

2. Work in executive dept. is suspended, except for skeletal staff

3. Flexble work arrangement encouraged in private sector. Manufacturing and retail businesses encouraged to stay open with social distancing and minimal work force

4. Mass public transport shall continue operation with social distancing

5. Domestic air, sea and land transport suspended from March 15, 2020 (12 midnight) to April 14, 2020, subject to the review of inter-agency task force.

6. Code alert is now raised to Sublevel 2, highest level

7. Stringent social distancing measures in NCR for 30 days

8. Suspension of classes in all levels in Metro Manila until April 12, 2020. Stay at home and study

9. Mass gatherings, either planned or spontaneous,...shall be prohibited during this period. If social distancing is no longer obeyed, if rules are disobeyed, this is punishable under the penal code and can be arrested by military and police

10. Community quarantine is hereby imposed in the entire of Metro Manila

11. In other areas, LGUs can impose localized quarantine

12. Baranggay-wide quarantine is advised if there are 2 or more COVID-19 cases

13. Municipality or city wide quarantine advised if 2 positive COVID-19 cases or more

14. Not enough military and police to cover the whole country. Barangay Captain is the police. Bgy. Captain can also go to prison if they don't enforce these regulations.

15. Close monitoring and reassessment of these regulations after 7 days from today

16. LGUs outside NCR advised to exercise sound discretion to suspend classes, but does not allow you to suspend classes for trivial reasons

17. PNP and AFP shall be called upon for effective and orderly implementation of above measures. This is not martial law. Do not be afraid of the PNP and AFP. They are there to help you.

18. Daily meetings of Inter Agency Task Force (IATF) and all relevant agencies

19. In social disturbance, military will keep order

20. OFWs allowed to travel to Mainland China except to Hubei

21. If things detrioriate, we may have to ask for China's help

22. Entry travel restriction imposed to all countries with COVID-19 cases, exept for Filipinos and their families, permanent visa holders and diplomats

23. Purpose of this is to protect and defend you from COVID-19

24. AFP and PNP will maintain peace and order. Just follow.

25. Our COVID-19 cases relatively low but fast to rise. You will be asked to go to the hospital and seek treatment.

26. COVID-19 tests are free

27. I ask for your patience. Help each other. Everything is placed in jeopardy.

 

[kadiot]

Sorry this is taken from a tabloid again. Fact-check, please.

---

The lack of widespread testing for the Coronavirus is “a failing” of the U.S. public health system, the government’s top infectious disease scientists told lawmakers, even as the nation’s surgeon general said separately that not everyone needs to get tested. “The system is not really geared to what we need right now -- what you’re asking for -- that is a failing,” said Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases. “It is a failing. Let’s admit it.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-is-unable-to-handle-large-volume-virus-tests

 

[kadiot]

Scientists have now shown that the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (#ACE2) receptor serves as the binding site for SARSCoV2, the Coronavirus implicated in the current #COVID19 outbreak.

The outbreak only began late December / early January but within a short period of time, scientist have come up with information that traditionally takes much longer. ScienceMatters

Since this landmark study was published, some have suggested that angiotensin receptor blockers (ARBs) like Losartan can prevent COVID-2019 infection. It’s important to remember that ACE inhibitors and ARBs DO NOT ACT on this receptor directly, so they are not going to affect the activity of the #virus for these cells. The proposed interactions of ACE inhibitors and ARBs with the virus is purely HYPOTHETICAL with no reliable data to justify any deviation from current practice guidelines.

This practice, besides being useless to prevent COVID-2019 infection, may be harmful, leading to inappropriate drug treatments and risk of adverse events, or may instill dangerous over-confidence against the infection risk.

Patients should continue to receive these medications if indicated for their cardiovascular condition. There is no evidence for extra benefit or extra harm in these patients.

 

[mfb]

22. Entry travel restriction imposed to all countries with COVID-19 cases, exept for Filipinos and their families, permanent visa holders and diplomats

Do you have an article about this? Would be useful for Wikipedia's list.

 

[kadiot]

Do you have an article about this? Would be useful for Wikipedia's list.

Here is the Memorandum from the Executive Secretary

 

[kadiot]

When Canada’s leader Trudeau was asked if he would seal the border between Canada and US, he answered;
“NOT YET TIME...”

Italy’s leader, Conte, also said a similar response... until... 1,000 died of Covid-19 and now he has now finally declared the lockdown of the entire country...

Lessons to be learned by other leaders? Maybe ...

 

[bhobba]

A chart explaining why the number of confirmed cases in the US likely greatly underestimates the actual number of cases (and how countries like South Korea have been more effective in managing the outbreak and keeping death rates low)

This is what gets me. We know what works:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/opinion/coronavirus-best-response.html

Just do it. First - new breakthrough:
https://kdvr.com/news/coronavirus/e...an-get-covid-19-test-results-in-2-10-minutes/

A complete lock-down of the country like NZ has done will likely work:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/he...prime-minister-updates-nz-on-covid19-outbreak

Australia where I live could do the same. But will it work any better than test, test, then test some more? Test everyone coming in, have roving teams going around testing everyone on the streets - ensure people that need to quarantine actually do. Trace infected individuals thoroughly. Do social distancing measures - great, wash your hand s etc - well really you should do that anyway just to reduce the cases of flu and the common cold - reinforce it - yes - but a complete lock down?

Thanks
Bill

 

[bhobba]

If I'm not mistaken, calling 911 for am ambulance can cost thousands?

That depends on where you live. In Australia, its free in many (but not all) states, paid for in various ways depending on the state you live in by a levy on something eg electricity bills. Otherwise its always part of any medical insurance you have. But in places that do not have that its reached farcical proportions. Everyone is told in an emergency you ring 000 (I think 911 works here as well). You are then asked - police, fire or ambulance. Woe is you if you say ambulance, because you have to pay the bill which here, just to get them out, not including anything else they might do, costs about $1000.00. One good Samaritan is still being chased by debt collectors for calling the ambulance when he saw a car accident. Amazing.

But as to your question - ring emergency and say police - they should get you to hospital without cost - this is your life we are talking about.

Thanks
Bill

 

[wukunlin]

A complete lock-down of the country like NZ has done will likely work:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/he...prime-minister-updates-nz-on-covid19-outbreak

Australia where I live could do the same. But will it work any better than test, test, then test some more? Test everyone coming in, have roving teams going around testing everyone on the streets - ensure people that need to quarantine actually do. Trace infected individuals thoroughly. Do social distancing measures - great, wash your hand s etc - well really you should do that anyway just to reduce the cases of flu and the common cold - reinforce it - yes - but a complete lock down?

Thanks
Bill

NZ is just having people quarantined, unlike how in China where some cities are disallowing everyone from entering or leaving, except for supply runs and medical teams. I'm not sure how the quarentine will be implemented in NZ. During SARS, people from danger zones just had to stay at home for 14 days with no way to tell if they actually did that.

China had to be draconian because a lot of people in surburban regions are still lacking that public health awareness. It was difficult to make them understand just how serious this is, especially when visiting relatives during the Chinese New Year was a very important practice. Some were successful through hefty bonuses to village council leaders if they can keep their regions disease free, which lead to loud speakers telling people to stay at home and even trenches and roadblocks sealing up these villages.

 

[hagopbul]

Yes, I have a primary care doctor.

I am also self-iso-ing.

I also do not have work for at least a couple of weeks. So, this is all-aroudn good.

My main thing I'm trying to figure out is if I feel really ill, but still lucid and able to drive, would it be better to drive myself to an E.R. if things get bad over calling an ambulance?

If I'm not mistaken, calling 911 for am ambulance can cost thousands?

Please do not panic

But why on Earth an ambulance will cost you money , if you don't have money or you are not insured they won't come take you .

Seriously they ask money from you or from some the insurance company ?!?

I don't live in the US so I don't know how your medical system work

But just do not panic and take care of yourself

 

[bhobba]

But why on Earth an ambulance will cost you money , if you don't have money or you are not insured they won't come take you .

Of course do not panic - that's the worst thing you can do.

I do not know how it is in other countries, but here in Aus, you ring the ambulance (or rather emergency and ask for an ambulance) then they come. They will if necessary chase you for money later. Until recently most people in Aus had some form of medical insurance, and in some places its free so was not a big issue - but still an issue. Recently people have been deciding they are sick and tired of insurance due to its very fast rising cost, and the sneaky tricks insurance companies/private hospitals use so you keep getting bills that trickle in for months after. You go to a public hospital - no charge at all. So people are leaving in droves. Basic actuarial science - less people to spread risk - up goes your premiums, which causes more to leave and you have a death spiral. Anyway we now have a lot less insured and the chasing of ambulance bills is fast becoming a big issue.

All this is of course solvable, but the exact method depends on your philosophical inclination, those more on the personal responsibility spectrum will want a different resolution than those more on the collectivist spectrum, so it gets grid locked in politics.

Thanks
Bill

 

[pinball1970]

A study as to whether it's air borne. Pre print

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v2

 

[atyy]

Doctor called Corona helps Indonesia battle coronavirus
https://www.thestar.com.my/news/reg...led-corona-helps-indonesia-battle-coronavirus

 

[kyphysics]

But as to your question - ring emergency and say police - they should get you to hospital without cost - this is your life we are talking about.

Possibly, but they could also call for an ambulance to take me, esp. if they think I have coronavirus, lol. They wouldn't want to come to my house and get infected.

I will definitely get to an E.R. one way or another. For sure, not playing around with my life or LUNGS:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/people-fully-recover-coronavirus-left-103917303.html
People who fully recover from the Coronavirus can be left with '20 to 30%' less lung function, and gasping for breath when they walk quickly, Hong Kong doctors find

 

[kyphysics]

Call your doctor and ask. If you can't reach them, call your nearest hospital and ask. Do not just show up in the emergency room.

When you say "an ambulance can cost thousands", I assume that means you are uninsured (also as per a previous thread)? If you can still drive, the hospital may direct you to an outside-the-hospital triage area or just meet you in the parking lot.

Also, while it hasn't been decided yet, it is possible if not likely that the US government will be reimbursing uninsured people for Coronavirus related medical costs:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/p...edical-bills-for-coronavirus-tests-2020-03-10

Yeah, I've heard the worry was a healthy person GETTING COVID19 going to a doctor and waiting to be seen. Calling is a better idea.

I have disaster insurance (super high deductible) and covers nothing (except for disaster).

I did see something about that - Trump asking health providers to waive medical debt for COVID19. Not in stone yet, but could be soon and would make sense.

I do have the following:

-cough (with slight feeling phlegm in the back of throat)
-more strained breathing (when I take breaths, it's as if I have to "struggle" slightly)
-major body fatigue

ALL of the above can also possibly be explained from very, very little sleep the past few days, as I stayed up 20-hours or so for 3 or 4 days straight every day (i.e., 4-ish hours sleep/night). Lots of panic stockpiling as well, because I had been so busy before and lazy about it. When I got to Costo, Walmart, Target, etc., lines were crazy and stuff was out. Made trips all over town to stock up on TWO months worth of stuff.

I figure there will be a "less informed" class of U.S. citizens who still don't get it and will be out and about the next 30-days. Add to that the growth case rate of this disease (exponential) and April is when I think we possibly get all out craziness. I actually think U.S. lockdown could be in full affect even from April to May (at least, in a worst case scenario).

Hence, my past few days of major stockpiling. Fatigue could easily have come from that. Shortness of breath is the MAIN thing I'll be self-monitoring the next few days. Could be from being exhausted too.

 

[atyy]

I do have the following:

-cough (with slight feeling phlegm in the back of throat)
-more strained breathing (when I take breaths, it's as if I have to "struggle" slightly)
-major body fatigue

Why not call your doctor immediately?

In Singapore, many people had to consult a general practitioner twice (or more times) before being tested for COVID-19. This is because the first time the symptoms may be quite mild, and the doctor can't distinguish it from something less serious,. It's only when the symptoms don't improve that the doctors can suspect it's something else, then they get sent for testing. Here is information which was given in the Singapore context. It will be different in different health systems.

https://nusmedicine.nus.edu.sg/medias/news-info/2233-the-covid-19-chronicles

 

[DennisN]

I'm in a self-imposed isolation due to a cold with fever

I'm personally feeling better, I 've had no fever today and I have no runny nose anymore. But I will of course continue to be in isolation.

We're in this together.

I just had a realization about how incredibly connected we all are on this planet at this moment in time, and this time it's definitely not a cliché;

Anyone of us could potentially cause harm to anyone else of us without knowing it.

If I was infected with Covid-19 and was careless, I could infect others nearby who then can infect others nearby and so on, and this could eventually end up anywhere in the world.

 

[kyphysics]

Something I'm not seeing much of is how people in the gig economy (I worked a gig economy job part-time and so does another family member of mine) would benefit from any government relief programs.

If there is sick leave, an Uber driver, for example, would not qualify as an independent contractor. Similarly, unemployment would not apply to ICs.

By some professional economist metrics, a full 25% of all American workers are gig economy workers:
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...economy-us-trump-uber-california-robert-reich

Add to that 40% of Americans don't have $400 in emergency money:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/10-americ...0-emergency-expense-federal/story?id=63253846

I wonder how this plays out if we get the economy grinding to a halt? Seems like there could be a big pocket of the country not addressed (so far) by government emergency intervention plans.

With so many Americans without health insurance (or inadequate), 40% living paycheck-to-paycheck, and 25% in gig economy work not covered by traditional unemployment, if we get a few months of halted production in the U.S., that could be tough.

Hoping we don't see things like desperation crime.

 

[DennisN]

-cough (with slight feeling phlegm in the back of throat)
-more strained breathing (when I take breaths, it's as if I have to "struggle" slightly)
-major body fatigue

ALL of the above can also possibly be explained from very, very little sleep the past few days, as I stayed up 20-hours or so for 3 or 4 days straight every day (i.e., 4-ish hours sleep/night). Lots of panic stockpiling as well, because I had been so busy before and lazy about it. When I got to Costo, Walmart, Target, etc., lines were crazy and stuff was out. Made trips all over town to stock up on TWO months worth of stuff.

I have been told it is important to get rest and enough sleep when you are feeling ill. Too much worry and anxiety is not good either, but I of course don't blame anyone feeling this at the moment considering the circumstances. I am feeling worried myself.

Due to this, I have personally drastically cut down watching the news. I will only watch the news to get basic updates of the development, and mainly in my area.

Instead of the news, I've started to listen to music and watching comedy instead.

EDIT:
It's also good to make sure you drink enough water. I also bought lemons and oranges which I squeeze the juice from, mix the juce with water and drink it for vitamins. Personally I already have been taking food supplements (multisupplements with vitamins and minerals) for a couple of years for other health reasons.

 

[mfb]

Here is the Memorandum from the Executive Secretary

I just see that foreigners from Iran and Italy have to get tested within 48 hours (last page). That's very different from your bullet points before.

People who fully recover from the Coronavirus can be left with '20 to 30%' less lung function, and gasping for breath when they walk quickly, Hong Kong doctors find

How is that a full recovery?

Doctor called Corona helps Indonesia battle coronavirus

Saves tests, we are sure his patients have Corona.

 

[DennisN]

You think so? In Aus toilet paper hoarding has reached insane levels. You want to buy toilet paper - forget it.

Some comedy to lighten things up a bit :
(a friend of mine posted this pic yesterday on facebook)

 

[fresh_42]

Here is an interesting article about the current outbreak focused on rigorous data versus public opinion:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11538-019-00684-z

During an epidemic, the interplay of disease and opinion dynamics can lead to outcomes that are different from those predicted based on disease dynamics alone. Opinions and the behaviours they elicit are complex, so modelling them requires a measure of abstraction and simplification. Here, we develop a differential equation model that couples SIR-type disease dynamics with opinion dynamics. We assume a spectrum of opinions that change based on current levels of infection as well as interactions that to some extent amplify the opinions of like-minded individuals. Susceptibility to infection is based on the level of prophylaxis (disease avoidance) that an opinion engenders. In this setting, we observe how the severity of an epidemic is influenced by the distribution of opinions at disease introduction, the relative rates of opinion and disease dynamics, and the amount of opinion amplification. Some insight is gained by considering how the effective reproduction number is influenced by the combination of opinion and disease dynamics.

 

[Vanadium 50]

@kyphysics , you said yesterday you were having tyrouble breathing. We told you to see a doctor.
Today you still have trouble breathing. See a doctor.

Seriously, how many days do you think you can make it without breathing?

 

[Haorong Wu]

When Canada’s leader Trudeau was asked if he would seal the border between Canada and US, he answered;
“NOT YET TIME...”

Italy’s leader, Conte, also said a similar response... until... 1,000 died of Covid-19 and now he has now finally declared the lockdown of the entire country...

Lessons to be learned by other leaders? Maybe ...

What human have learned is that human never learn.

 

[DennisN]

I do have the following:

-cough (with slight feeling phlegm in the back of throat)
-more strained breathing (when I take breaths, it's as if I have to "struggle" slightly)
-major body fatigue

If I were you, I would call a medical doctor immediately. Please take care!

 

[Vanadium 50]

Sorry this is taken from a tabloid again. Fact-check, please.

If you want to post something, it is your responsibility to check it is true, not everybody else's. Doing so in normal times is bad enough. Doing so in the midst of a pandemic is reprehensible. We all have to make our choices as to whether we want to be part of the solution or part of the problem.

 

[kadiot]

If you want to post something, it is your responsibility to check it is true, not everybody else's. Doing so in normal times is bad enough. Doing so in the midst of a pandemic is reprehensible. We all have to make our choices as to whether we want to be part of the solution or part of the problem.

Noted. My apology.

 

[nsaspook]

Things people don't buy during a pandemic.

.

 

[chirhone]

Here is the Memorandum from the Executive Secretary

3 hours before lockdown. We have 47 positive new cases in just one day in addition to existing 64 cases. Total is now 111 and 8 deaths.

Do you think Enhanced Community Quarantine is required now, based on other countries experiences? At present we can still freely move in the lockdown capital.

 

[wukunlin]

3 hours before lockdown. We have 47 positive new cases in just one day in addition to existing 64 cases. Total is now 111 and 8 deaths.

Do you think Enhanced Community Quarantine is required now, based on other countries experiences? At present we can still freely move in the lockdown capital.

Hubei cities and Wenzhou ended up doing that. Seems to have worked for Wenzhou, the cities of Hubei blew up anyway, probably because it was too late.

 

[kadiot]

3 hours before lockdown. We have 47 positive new cases in just one day in addition to existing 64 cases. Total is now 111 and 8 deaths.

Do you think Enhanced Community Quarantine is required now, based on other countries experiences? At present we can still freely move in the lockdown capital.

View attachment 258693

That’s what Dr. Leachon proposed last Tuesday.

8 and counting. We are registering one of the highest death rates in the world. People must comply with government directives.

 

[kyphysics]

If I were you, I would call a medical doctor immediately. Please take care!

Cough still there - getting worse.

Shortness of breath and fatigue gone today. As I said, all my symptoms could also have been from freaking exhaustion the past few days!

Definitely not taking it lightly - don't want lung damage. Also, appreciate the "love" from your side greatly! Your warning is well heeded! Just going to wait another day or two. I figured there was a decent chance it was exhaustion, so if I feel better and better, I think I'm fine.

 

[DennisN]

Definitely not taking it lightly - don't want lung damage. Also, appreciate the "love" from your side greatly! Your warning is well heeded!

Great! By the way, I noticed your avatar is from Cities Skylines. I played that game quite a lot a couple of years ago. I love that game.

 

[Haorong Wu]

Cough still there - getting worse.

Shortness of breath and fatigue gone today. As I said, all my symptoms could also have been from freaking exhaustion the past few days!

Definitely not taking it lightly - don't want lung damage. Also, appreciate the "love" from your side greatly! Your warning is well heeded! Just going to wait another day or two. I figured there was a decent chance it was exhaustion, so if I feel better and better, I think I'm fine.

I strongly recommend you seek medical help. Not only the virus can damage lungs which may not be recoverable, but also there is evidence that the virus may cause damage to reproductive system as well as to immune system.
Hoping I am just worried too much. Best luck!