Is Offshore Oil Drilling Truly Safe?

[mheslep]

Our government was not put in place to insure people 'do the right thing'. Societal institutions and norms have that job. The government is in place to secure a minimum of basic rights 'among men', with a great deal of restrictions on the government, knowing that government always and everywhere tends to gather more power to itself, consisting only of the same people, i.e. corruptible and fallible, that make up the rest of the nation. In this case the Interior Department is a good example of those foibles.

 

[magpies]

I saw something I can't find it now about how some of the crew on ships working the cleanup efforts are getting sick :( Man this blows :(

 

[Mech_Engineer]

It appears that the "top-kill" has worked in stopping the well, at least according to the Coast Guard:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-oil-spill-top-kill-20100528,0,5782115.story

Engineers have stopped the flow of oil and gas into the Gulf of Mexico from a gushing BP well, the federal government's top oil-spill commander, U.S. Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen, said Thursday morning.

The "top kill" effort, launched Wednesday afternoon by industry and government engineers, had pumped enough drilling fluid to block oil and gas spewing from the well, Allen said. The pressure from the well was very low, he said, but persisting.

Once engineers had reduced the well pressure to zero, they were to begin pumping cement into the hole to entomb the well. To help in that effort, he said, engineers also were pumping some debris into the blowout preventer at the top of the well.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It appears that the "top-kill" has worked in stopping the well, at least according to the Coast Guard:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-oil-spill-top-kill-20100528,0,5782115.story

Now BP admits that they stopped pumping mud at midnight, last night. Apparently the pumping was stopped twice and resumed only a short time ago. In an interview with BP CEO a little bit ago, mention was made of bridging material, which alludes to the next logical step, a "junk shot". Not encouraging. They say it will take another 24 to 48 hours before we know if the top kill worked.


Unrelated

Louisiana Congressman Charlie Melancon broke down during a House Energy subcommittee meeting Thursday morning talking about the BP Oil spill and the coastal damage the spill has caused. (May 27) (The Associated Press)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2010/05/27/VI2010052704905.html
Note that there is a cool video of a missile launch from a B-52, after the video of the Congressman.

 

[edward]

It appears that a BP official cut some corners.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/DN-oilspill_27tex.ART.State.Edition2.9bf5a9e.html

NEW ORLEANS – Company executives and top drill hands on the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig argued for hours before a BP official decided to remove heavy drilling fluid from the well and replace it with lighter-weight seawater that was unable to prevent gas from surging to the surface and exploding, according to testimony at a Coast Guard hearing Wednesday.

Edit:

At the Coast Guard hearing Wednesday, Doug Brown , chief rig mechanic aboard the platform, testified that the BP official, whom he identified only as the "company man," overruled the drillers, declaring, "This is how it's going to be." Brown said the top Transocean official on the rig grumbled, "Well, I guess that's what we have those pinchers for," which Brown took to be a reference to devices on the blowout preventer, the five-story piece of equipment designed to slam a well shut in an emergency.

In a handwritten statement to the Coast Guard, Transocean rig worker Truitt Crawford said: "I overheard upper management talking saying that BP was taking shortcuts by displacing the well with saltwater instead of mud without sealing the well with cement plugs, this is why it blew out."

BP declined to comment on his statement.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It appears that a BP official cut some corners.

James Carville is even more out of his mind than normal; and that's saying something. His wife, Mary Matalin, is all but in tears most of the time. They live in Louisianna. Carville was all but personally threatening the CEO of BP, a little bit ago; suggesting that they have a prison just perfect for him, or something close to that.

Anyway, I don't know how seriously Carville can be taken right now as he is highly emotional, but he says lawyers in La. believe they have solid grounds for criminal prosecution.

 

[turbo]

Carville and Matalin are less marketable in these times. He's ramping it up to increase their exposure and get them some face-time on TV. Do you think that a millionaire is in an incoherent rage (we'll be killed!) because hundreds of thousands of Gulf residents are going to lose their livings for an undetermined amount of time? Nope.

Carville knows what sells, and he's selling it right now.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Carville and Matalin are less marketable in these times. He's ramping it up to increase their exposure and get them some face-time on TV. Do you think that a millionaire is in an incoherent rage (we'll be killed!) because hundreds of thousands of Gulf residents are going to lose their livings for an undetermined amount of time? Nope.

Carville knows what sells, and he's selling it right now.

I don't think so. He is naturaly hot-headed, so that is normal. But anyone can tell, imo, that they are both personally devestated. This is their home. Why wouldn't they be affected? He has nothing to gain by hyping this less helping to spotlight the problem. Naturally, he is well positioned to get a lot of air time. They both are. And given that they represent opposite sides of the fence, by appearing together, they send a strong political message.

Anyway, I've been watching Carville for twenty years. I believe he is sincere. Hell, he's been bashing Obama for days now. What more evidence do you need that this isn't politically motivated? That is completely out of character for Carville. If he is anything, he is the definition of a loyal Democrat.

 

[turbo]

I don't think so. He is naturaly hot-headed, so that is normal. But anyone can tell, imo, that they are both personally devestated. This is their home. Why wouldn't they be affected? He has nothing to gain by hyping this less helping to spotlight the problem. Naturally, he is well positioned to get a lot of air time. They both are. And given that they represent opposite sides of the fence, by appearing together, they send a strong political message.

Anyway, I've been watching Carville for twenty years. I believe he is sincere. Hell, he's been bashing Obama for days now. What more evidence do you need that this isn't politically motivated? That is completely out of character for Carville. If he is anything, he is the definition of a loyal Democrat.

I believe that Carville and Matalin will do anything to pump their prospects to headline on weekend news shows. That's what they do.

Carville has high-placed sources all through Obama's administration, and the fiction of acting like a liberal/progressive outsider who is "not in the loop" just doesn't hold any water. He can bash Obama all he wants, but it is silly to think that this well-connected commentator is not acting in his own self-interest.

 

[WhoWee]

I don't think so. He is naturaly hot-headed, so that is normal. But anyone can tell, imo, that they are both personally devestated. This is their home. Why wouldn't they be affected? He has nothing to gain by hyping this less helping to spotlight the problem. Naturally, he is well positioned to get a lot of air time. They both are. And given that they represent opposite sides of the fence, by appearing together, they send a strong political message.

Anyway, I've been watching Carville for twenty years. I believe he is sincere. Hell, he's been bashing Obama for days now. What more evidence do you need that this isn't politically motivated? That is completely out of character for Carville. If he is anything, he is the definition of a loyal Democrat.

Obama has taken responsibility for this event. Carville might prove more productive if he supported him?

 

[turbo]

Obama has taken responsibility for this event. Carville might prove more productive if he supported him?

That would be productive and (dare I say?) adult.

 

[Proton Soup]

Obama has taken responsibility for this event. Carville might prove more productive if he supported him?

if they don't make some noise down in LA, there may not be much left. they'll end up ignored by the rest of the country just like after Katrina. it's really the only way to assure that Obama does do anything, make him look like Bush if he doesn't.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The newest BP commercial is too much.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=2734843#post2734843

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Obama has taken responsibility for this event. Carville might prove more productive if he supported him?

He gave Obama an out: He allows that Obama has not been appropriately informed about the degree of damage to the breeding wetlands, of Louisiana. This is a huge issue as a majority of the life found in the gulf is apparently tied to these wetlands - I think the number cited once was 80 or 90%? I'm not sure of the number but it was surprisingly high.

Carville has stated publically that after Obama visits tomorrow, he had better take action to save the wetlands, immediately. Well, not in so many words. More along the lines of, "Obama is too smart to not understand this". From what I have heard about these wetlands, it sounds like Carville is dead on target. These wetlands must be saved. I do know that today, tentative approval to start construction of some levies was given. These are intended to protect some of the most sensitive areas.

Part of the problem seems to be that State officials have one set of plans, but the Army Corp of Engineers may have another. If the two sets of plans don't agree, tempers flare. However, based on what some local officials are saying, there are critical breeding grounds taking huge hits, with more every day, that have been ignored.

The oil is just starting to hit. Imagine, there is already another 35 days of oil on its way! According to a PBS newshour report, tonight, there is a 20 mile long oil slick below the surface, on its way to Alabama.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I still think the best idea so far is the one suggested by the former CEO of Shell. Get every available tanker [and every ship with significant pump and storage capacity, for that matter] to start vacuuming the oil and water. Separate the oil and water later. And quit using the dispersant. It been done sucessfully before. In that case, they actually surrounded the leak with tankers.

 

[Proton Soup]

The newest BP commercial is too much.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=2734843#post2734843

 

[Proton Soup]

Carville has stated publically that after Obama visits tomorrow, he had better take action to save the wetlands, immediately. Well, not in so many words. More along the lines of, "Obama is too smart to not understand this". From what I have heard about these wetlands, it sounds like Carville is dead on target. These wetlands must be saved. I do know that today, tentative approval to start construction of some levies was given. These are intended to protect some of the most sensitive areas.
.

methinks ol' snakehead is having the time of his life

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/526/u0i3z.jpg

 

[mheslep]

I still think the best idea so far is the one suggested by the former CEO of Shell. Get every available tanker [and every ship with significant pump and storage capacity, for that matter] to start vacuuming the oil and water. Separate the oil and water later. And quit using the dispersant. It been done sucessfully before. In that case, they actually surrounded the leak with tankers.

Yes, I would like to know why that wasn't done weeks ago, or if not have a very good technical reason provided.

 

[Geigerclick]

Yes, I would like to know why that wasn't done weeks ago, or if not a very good technical reason provided.

Our government is too cheap and incompetent to take this action?

 

[pallidin]

Our government is too cheap and incompetent to take this action?

Incompetent? Sort of. Obama stated yesterday that BP and other oil companies have superior technology.
Too cheap? No. BP will be paying all costs, not the government. However, the problem with that is that I suspect oil prices will rise to compensate BP expenditure, effectively costing them nothing. Seems so unfair and no real incentive to correct poor practices.

 

[turbo]

Offshore drilling can be made safer (not safe) with some common-sense regulations. Every oil rig should have BOP with a shearing device that can cut the high-tensile steels used in modern piping, AND the cut-off device must be tested and certified before the BOP can be deployed. Every BOP must be tested regularly - probably on the order of once a week - to ensure that it can isolate the well-head from the pipes leading to the rig.

Now if someone can come up with a way of staging and employing adequate resources to minimize the effects of any spill... It's evident that BP was grossly under-prepared for a spill of this magnitude, and their containment measures have been "oops" moments. The use of dispersants should be studied and perhaps more tightly regulated, as well. Anything that makes the oil harder to recover from sea-water makes pumping/mechanical separation efforts just that much more expensive and ineffective.

Edit: The BOPs must also be redesigned so the valves are held open by signal/power from the rig, and on the loss of signal/power, they fail to the closed position. This is a last line of safety, should a rig be damaged, as in this case. The current lack of such elementary safety engineering is quite troubling. I worked for many years in the pulp and paper industry, with concentration on the operation of very dangerous Kraft chemical-recovery boilers. The boiler systems had to be designed to prevent catastrophic failure (boom!) and a critical, basic part of that design was specifying failure positions (closed, open, last position, etc) for critical valves. Those systems were required to be tested periodically, and if they failed, the operator could lose insurance coverage and operating license until the system was repaired and recertified.

 

[Geigerclick]

Incompetent? Sort of. Obama stated yesterday that BP and other oil companies have superior technology.
Too cheap? No. BP will be paying all costs, not the government. However, the problem with that is that I suspect oil prices will rise to compensate BP expenditure, effectively costing them nothing. Seems so unfair and no real incentive to correct poor practices.

I'll believe that BP will pay AFTER they have paid, or not as the case may be. The Exxon Valdez certainly doesn't inspire confidence that we can get the necessary funding, or that our government will use them as intended.

 

[turbo]

Apparently, BP hired a bunch of temporary workers to work on cleaning the beaches in Grand Isle, then bussed them right back out as soon as Obama's entourage left. Locals are pretty ticked off at the deception, with good reason.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts2320

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Even BP now admits the worst

BP has already tried junk shots. The latest is that it will be another 48 hours before they know if the top kill, and now, junk shots, work. Note that in the beginning, it was suggested that we would know in about four hours; after four hours, they said 24 hours; after 24 hours, they said 24-48 hours; and now, 24 hours later, they say it will be another 48 hours.

Chief Executive Officer Tony Hayward called an “environmental catastrophe"...

The well has been spewing an estimated 12,000 to 19,000 barrels of oil a day into the Gulf, a U.S. government panel said yesterday. The midpoint of that estimate would make it the nation’s largest oil spill on record and more than twice as big as the Exxon Valdez disaster in 1989.

“This is clearly an environmental catastrophe,” Hayward said today in a CNN television interview. He also called the situation “a very significant environmental crisis”...

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-28/bp-uses-junk-shot-calls-oil-spill-a-catastrophe-update1-.html

 

[mheslep]

Apparently, BP hired a bunch of temporary workers to work on cleaning the beaches in Grand Isle, then bussed them right back out as soon as Obama's entourage left. Locals are pretty ticked off at the deception, with good reason.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts2320

Maybe more than BP had a hand in

News of 11th-hour spruce-up brigade spread rapidly Friday afternoon and infuriated locals. One popular radio host, WWL's Spud McConnell, suggested that the Coast Guard and the White House may have been involved in setting up the "perfect photo op."

 

[magpies]

What I ment to say was you ya obama should have to clean up the oil himself with a shovel.

 

[turbo]

Spud McConnell is a right-wing radio host, so he's not much of a source absent some investigation or inside sources - just wishful speculation hoping for a scandal. I'm surprised Limbaugh didn't beat him to it.

 

[mheslep]

Spud McConnell is a right-wing radio host, so he's not much of a source absent some investigation or inside sources - just wishful speculation hoping for a scandal. I'm surprised Limbaugh didn't beat him to it.

There are only two sources in the article: McConnell and that Councilman. Pick your poison.

 

[Geigerclick]

What I ment to say was you ya obama should have to clean up the oil himself with a shovel.

Seriously, what do people expect him to do? I understand outrage at mistakes which led to this, but it's not as though we can send the man down 5000' with a giant cork. Some people really worry me.

 

[magpies]

Hey by his own words it's his responsiblity.

 

[Geigerclick]

Hey by his own words it's his responsiblity.

Yes, it is, but that doesn't mean that he can warp reality to his whim and plug the leak, or clean the oceans. He's just a politician, like any other.

 

[magpies]

Yes, it is, but that doesn't mean that he can warp reality to his whim

Careful he might hear you say that.

 

[jreelawg]

"Revolving door with industry
The Project On Government Oversight (POGO) alleges that MMS has suffered from a systemic revolving door problem between the Department of Interior and the oil and gas industries. Thirteen months after departing as MMS director, Bush appointee Randall Luthi became president of the National Oceans Industries Association (NOIA) whose mission is to "to secure reliable access and a favorable regulatory and economic environment for the companies that develop the nation's valuable offshore energy resources in an environmentally responsible manner."[36] Luthi succeeded Tom Fry, who was MMS director under the Clinton administration. Luthi and Fry represented precisely the industries their agency was tasked with being a watchdog over.[37] Lower level administrators influencing MMS have also gone on to work for the companies they once regulated:[38]
Paul Stang served as Regional Supervisor for Leasing and Environment for MMS[39], then went to work for Shell Oil Company in 2007 on its Arctic Ocean programs.[40]
Greg Smith served as the Deputy Program Manager of the Royalities in Kind (RIK) program between 2001 and 2004. Thereafter until 2007 he was director of RIK.[13] POGO's report states that when he was working on the RIK program, Smith received $30,000 from Geomatrix, an oil industry consulting firm. After leaving government, Smith went to work for Tenaska Marketing Ventures, described on their website as a "leading marketer of natural gas in North America".
Jimmy Mayberry served as Special Assistant to the Associate Director of Minerals Revenue Management (MRM), managed by MMS, from 2000 to January 2003. After he left, he created an energy consulting company that was awarded an MMS contract via a rigged bid. He was convicted along with a former MMS coworker Milton Dial who also came to work at the company. Both were found guilty of felony violation of conflict of interest law.[41][42][43]
L. Poe Leggette served as Assistant Solicitor for DOI for over a decade, advising the MMS on their onshore and offshore energy programs, as well as royalty valuation issues. He now heads the Western Lands and Energy Practice at Fulbright & Jaworski whose clients are the oil and gas industries.[44]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minerals_Management_Service#Revolving_door_with_industry


Here is one of the problems.

I have had the idea before that the revolving door scam should be made illegal after the Bovin growth Hormone scam involving Monsanto and the FDA. This type of thing is all too common. People regulate an industry, and then suspiciously work for the people they were supposed to regulate making millions of dollars. It is a convenient way to bribe your way into controlling the government and regulations.

 

[jreelawg]

Sex drugs and oil

"In his report, the inspector general said some MMS workers in the royalty-in-kind program took cocaine and marijuana and had "illicit sexual encounters."

Government workers also got drunk at social events with employees of oil companies doing business with the agency and MMS workers had "brief sexual relationships" with industry contacts, the inspector general said."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1134230020080911

 

[magpies]

Reminds me of the storys I heard of one of the reps in my state... cocaine women on a boat galore.