Males vs. Females: Equality or Prejudice?

[Evo]

I always liked what Njorl had to say on the subject:

What happened to Njorl?

 

[Astronuc]

Ok, the Pf Sisterhood needs to go on a rescue mission to Iran to get Lisa!

MIH, have you perfected the Klingon "cloaking device"? We're going to need that.

How about we just upgrade the PF Sisterhood Supersonic RV to Hypersonic Stealth RV?

Just bring it by the PF Engineering Shops, and let Fred, brewnog, Danger, Artman and the other Engineering Gurus perfrom their magic, er art.

. . . , but men are superior to women

Um, nope. Generally, that is not the case. Different yes, superior no!

 

[Evo]

How about we just upgrade the PF Sisterhood Supersonic RV to Hypersonic Stealth RV?

Just bring it by the PF Engineering Shops, and let Fred, brewnog, Danger, Artman and the other Engineering Gurus perfrom their magic, er art.

Ooooh, let me put my list of options together. With that group, I think the RV could achieve interstellar travel.

Warp 9, Brewnog...make it so.

 

[Astronuc]

Ooooh, let me put my list of options together. With that group, I think the RV could achieve interstellar travel.

Warp 9, Brewnog...make it so.

Well, now that you mentioned it, I was thinking along those lines. This sounds like a project for . . .

Astronuc

But first I have to change into might PF tights.

We'll have to bring in the PF Physics and PF Cosmology Departments on that upgrade.

I am going to have to bring in the PF Spelling Deparment or have mind brain-finger circuits checked. My spelling has been problematic today.

 

[Moonbear]

Ooooh, let me put my list of options together. With that group, I think the RV could achieve interstellar travel.

Warp 9, Brewnog...make it so.

I think the sisterhood needs a men's auxilliary!

 

[Astronuc]

I think the sisterhood needs a men's auxilliary!

Danger can be your chauffer and Interstellar Hypersonic Stealth RV pilot.


With regard to this male/female debate, I also have a similar approach to management. I don't hire people to work for me - I hire people to work with me. As a manager, my function is to provide the resources and environment in which my staff to perform to the best of their abilities. A manager should be a mentor.

I can't stand top-down management and managers, especially when they behave in an arbitrary and capricious manner.

Anyway, I work with very cool people.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Ok, the Pf Sisterhood needs to go on a rescue mission to Iran to get Lisa!

MIH, have you perfected the Klingon "cloaking device"? We're going to need that.

Aye. It fits like a glove, Captain. And I'll be ready with the high-powered Zereshk Polo launcher in case we run into any trouble once we land.

 

[Moonbear]

Danger can be your chauffer and Interstellar Hypersonic Stealth RV pilot.

I don't think we could pry Tsu's hands off the steering wheel if we tried. Maybe when she needs a break, we could let Danger take the wheel for a bit...as long as he understands that he must ask for directions if he gets lost!

With regard to this male/female debate, I also have a similar approach to management. I don't hire people to work for me - I hire people to work with me. As a manager, my function is to provide the resources and environment in which my staff to perform to the best of their abilities. A manager should be a mentor.

Ah, you're definitely an academic at heart. That's one of the things I really like about working in academia. The whole point is to train people, so I don't have to find people who are already polished and perfectly trained to do a job, but instead can look for people to bring into the lab whose personalities fit well with the group, and who have a good attitude about learning new stuff, and of course show enough aptitude to learn what we teach them. Male or female doesn't factor into it at all. There is a bias toward hiring men among those in my field though, because we work with large animals. It's very physical work, and unfortunately, there are still a lot of male faculty who don't believe women can really do the work. I show them otherwise, and I've had plenty of petite women work for me...I forewarn them that they'll get thrown around and bruised a bit in the beginning until they develop the strength for the job, and I can show them a lot of little tricks that use the animal's natural behaviors to assist them instead of just brute force to get them to go where we want them. As long as they're willing to get dirty, they'll be able to do the job. Maybe I'll have to recommend they drink cherry juice after their first few days in the barns to help with those aching muscles.

 

[Astronuc]

Ah, you're definitely an academic at heart.

Actually, I am a hippie and recalcitrant heathen. Several universities have talked to me. I kind of busy at the moment with numerous projects, but academia does seem appealing.

 

[Math Is Hard]

If someone's (male or female, I don't care) going to get some kubideh, make sure that there's enough for everyone.

Yes, please. And can I get some of that rice with the sour cherries?

 

[Lisa!]

Evo, I really didn't expect you to say such a thing base on what a kiddie say. He just wants to draw attention by what he says! As far as I know our culture is a lot more modern than yours. Don't care what some dummie are thinking about women because of what they learned from Arabs. Our woemn were in authority long time ago when in most of countries people didn't consider women as human beings.
You think your culture is modeern and don't have that sort of problem anymore. So go read some of post of kiddies and adults in very this board. What they say about women is more backwarded of what some Iranian think. You people justfail to see my point, ok? No need to say bad thing 1 of the greatest culture of the world.
That's really awful when you misunderstand someone. Mots People in Iran are openminded enough not to believe whateverr their politicians and mediasay about the life and culture in western countries, but it seems that you american have some other sort of problem.
Well I guess I'm not going to have any other discussion with you guys, since it's sort of waste of time...

Regards

 

[Astronuc]

Most People in Iran are open-minded enough not to believe whateverr their politicians and media say about the life and culture in western countries, but it seems that you american have some other sort of problem.

Well, I think nationalism or chavinism is somewhat universal. There are many open-minded Americans, just as there are many open-minded Iranians, and there are those who suffer from a parochial myopia related to ignorance from lack of experience.

The everyday experiences of people around the world are more or less the same - the language and culture are different.

So why is that men and women never grow up to stop being sexist and opposing each other? I mean they're always making bad jokes about each other and try to prove their superiority. That's pretty annoying and childish.

Some men express this sentiment - not all.

I've to meet someone who really thinks men and women are equal.

Please read my posts, and those of Moonbear, and several others.

 

[fourier jr]

So why is that men and women never grow up to stop being sexist and opposing each other? I mean they're always making bad jokes about each other and try to prove their superiority. That's pretty annoying and childish.

Q: why are women such bad drivers?

A: because they're always told that this |------------------------------| is 10 inches

 

[Monochrome]

It just drives me nuts when I see men think they should take care of women and they're cleverer and stronger than women.

Ignoring the asinine and ironic use of "cleverer" let me try to answer your question in a rational manner:

The basic reason why men think that they are stronger and more clever than women is that they are. Merely look at the lists of prominent scientists through out the ages and one realizes that virtually all (bar three that I know of) are men. If you think that this is due to academic elitism I would like to point out that many had to overcome great social stigma to get their ideas across. While I think no one who is feminist will find this a convincing argument I present the next case. Physical fitness. At every event I can think of at the Olympics the men’s times are significantly lower than the women’s. So much so that gifted male athletes try to beat the women’s world record in their sports as early as high school.

So now that a pattern has been arguably drawn that individuals in the male population when matched to their equivocal percentile in the female population will excel at the given criteria by which the comparison is made one must ask why. The reason is simple and it is the women’s fault that men are better at traits that increase their overall fitness. Evolution. Women are far more picky than men when it comes to mates as such only strong healthy and (reasonably) intelligent males will have offspring. So one can easily understand why that on average each Y chromosome will be positively selected twice as often as each X chromosome. Therefore any negative traits in it will be removed twice as quickly as they are on its counterparts, the X chromosomes. The continued existence of these negative traits, even in different forms, is guaranteed by the continual random mutation of DNA.

So it is really simple, if women want men not to be stronger than them they just need to stop being to picky when it comes to mates and settle with the unfit, dumb and disease ridden. Thereby lowering the evolutionary pressure on the Y chromosome to induce such fitness in men.

 

[Moonbear]

Evo, I really didn't expect you to say such a thing base on what a kiddie say. He just wants to draw attention by what he says! As far as I know our culture is a lot more modern than yours. Don't care what some dummie are thinking about women because of what they learned from Arabs. Our woemn were in authority long time ago when in most of countries people didn't consider women as human beings.

Unless I missed something, I think Evo was just playing around (we're always looking for an excuse to take the Turbo RV out for a spin). I don't think either culture is more modern than the other, though, I've never been to Iran to experience it first hand. Then again, it's a bit hard to quantify modernness. Nationalism really is very similar to the male/female debate. There are a lot of differences, and it seems somewhat natural for people to feel that the traits they hold or their country holds are the ones that are the best or most important. I really think it comes down to self-confidence. If you're confident enough to know that you're not going to be less of a person if you openly admit that the other sex, or another country, or another culture, etc., also has great qualities, and is as good as you at them, then you see how much more enjoyable life is to stop wasting time on meaningless comparisons (not to mention how much less hostile it would be).

You think your culture is modeern and don't have that sort of problem anymore. So go read some of post of kiddies and adults in very this board. What they say about women is more backwarded of what some Iranian think. You people justfail to see my point, ok? No need to say bad thing 1 of the greatest culture of the world.

We definitely still have a problem with sexism in the US. I don't think Evo was suggesting otherwise. It has improved quite a lot in the past few decades, but it's still present, especially among the older generation. Though, what's noteworthy, and started to be presented earlier in the thread, but didn't get followed through on, is that as women are gaining a firm foothold in many male-dominated areas, there's a greater tendency of sexism toward men. In other words, if a man says a derogatory remark about women, he'll get cut off and corrected very quickly, but if a woman says a derogatory remark about men, it is very much tolerated still. I almost never hear a guy saying that a woman should do the cleaning anymore, but I still often hear women saying that men aren't any good at it, they can't see dirt, they just make a big mess, they just swish a mop around and think everything is clean, etc. You really can't have it both ways. You can't complain if men tell you cleaning is women's work and complain that men can't do the job. But somehow, people still get away with that. The reality is that there are just as many female slobs as there are male slobs, and just as many men as women who will notice even a speck out of place, or dust in the corners, or who would be disgusted at the idea of using a dirty rag to wipe down the kitchen countertops.

That's really awful when you misunderstand someone. Mots People in Iran are openminded enough not to believe whateverr their politicians and mediasay about the life and culture in western countries, but it seems that you american have some other sort of problem.
Well I guess I'm not going to have any other discussion with you guys, since it's sort of waste of time...

Regards

I really hope you don't still think it's a waste of time.

 

[Moonbear]

Ignoring the asinine and ironic use of "cleverer" let me try to answer your question in a rational manner:

...So one can easily understand why that on average each Y chromosome will be positively selected twice as often as each X chromosome. Therefore any negative traits in it will be removed twice as quickly as they are on its counterparts, the X chromosomes. The continued existence of these negative traits, even in different forms, is guaranteed by the continual random mutation of DNA.

Speaking of irony regarding "cleverer," I suggest you study biology, and specifically genetics and reproduction, a bit more carefully before you expound upon half-baked theories. Men are just as likely to pass their genes on to their daughters as to their sons. Most of the traits you're referring to are not sex-linked on the Y-chromosome, other than those for development of male gonads and thus increased testosterone production, which would relate to strength, but not intellectual abilities. By the way, before you make fun of Lisa!'s word-choice, how often do you converse in a foreign language on internet forums? You might take note that like many others here, English is not her native language. I could pick apart your grammar as well, if you'd like.

Your selective choice of prominent scientists throughout the ages is equally asinine. That you only know of three women scientists only speaks to your own ignorance of the subject. Again, rather ironic given your position on intellectual abilities.

Oh, and I should also point out the hilarity of your argument about evolution selecting for the "elite" athletes. The dirty little secret is that if there is any selection pressure, it is working against them...for both sexes. Infertility and subfertility are serious problems for the elite athlete who has minimal body fat. There's also selection at the other end of the spectrum against those who are morbidly obese in terms of fertility problems. It's the somewhat fit, but still slightly pudgy-in-the-middle people who don't have the diet- and exercise-induced infertility problems. Interestingly, males actually shut down sperm production much more quickly than females shut down ovulation when experiencing things like food deprivation or stress. Now, that makes more sense evolutionarily, because males produce sperm continuously, so if they are deprived of food for a day or two, it's no big loss to conserve the energy and lose a few days of sperm production; there are still a lot there, and they'll just have a few days a month down the road that they are a bit less fertile. On the other hand, females ovulate much less frequently (in rodent species that ovulate only once every 4 days, the females will miss an ovulation if food-deprived only a short time...just one day is enough, as it is with shutting down sperm production in males of those species), so missing an ovulation because of just one day's food shortage would be a huge waste of reproductive potential. The females need to be food deprived or stressed for a much longer period of time before they'll miss an ovulation.

I'd also like to know how running faster makes one a good protector? Again, in terms of evolutionary fitness, the male running away at the sight of a predator doesn't really help the pregnant female much. The female still has to be able to protect herself and her offspring when the male is nowhere to be found (not exactly an uncommon scenario in the animal kingdom).

 

[Monochrome]

Men are just as likely to pass their genes on to their daughters as to their sons.

And then you go ahead and talk about the Y chromosome which is only passed from father to son, I am the only one who thinks you just agreed with me despite saying you didn't? Also we are decades away from knowing how the different proteins coded on any gene affect specific areas of the body. So it is equally asinine to assume that the Y chromosome only codes for two things.

You might take note that like many others here, English is not her native language.

My native language is Bulgarian followed by Vlashki, then English and Spanish. Which just reflects on your worldview that everyone here is from the Anglo-Saxon world unless otherwise specified.

That you only know of three women scientists only speaks to your own ignorance of the subject.

You know, you would be completely correct if that is what I said rather than:

Merely look at the lists of prominent scientists

You said:

Oh, and I should also point out the hilarity of your argument about evolution selecting for the "elite" athletes.

Before that I said:

individuals in the male population when matched to their equivocal percentile in the female population will excel at the given criteria by which the comparison is made

I would like to add that this is the case for criteria that relate to competitiveness to attract mates, ie strength, health, brains in males.

Again, in terms of evolutionary fitness, the male running away at the sight of a predator doesn't really help the pregnant female much.

You say it yourself the male survives. He reproduces again, the most successful man in reproductive history (Genghis Khan) wasn't a protector. He was a warlord who was strong, healthy and cunning all positively selected traits. Nor would protectionism be a strategy which would spread genes very far as the protector is likely to die and his offspring along with him. And of course there is the nasty little statistic that one in ten children does not belong to the father who is looking after it.

But again you missed the point about female selection of mates. Until you debunk that any Y chromosome that gives an advantage over others in the population through sexually describable traits - strength, heath, intelligence - will spread while not giving the female any benefit whatsoever. While the reverse would cause an increase in the fitness of the woman's offspring regardless of their sex. Also my point about removing harmful mutations from the Y chromosome twice as fast stands.

 

[Cyrus]

Evo, I really didn't expect you to say such a thing base on what a kiddie say. He just wants to draw attention by what he says! As far as I know our culture is a lot more modern than yours.

Iran's culture is much older. (Ok, I'm just yanking your chain on that one ). Iran does have a long and old history and culture, that's certainly true. And women were a part of that culture.

Don't care what some dummie are thinking about women because of what they learned from Arabs.

Let's not blame the Arabs for Iran's own choice of actions.

Our woemn were in authority long time ago when in most of countries people didn't consider women as human beings.

Yes, long ago. But not anymore.

You think your culture is modeern and don't have that sort of problem anymore. So go read some of post of kiddies and adults in very this board. What they say about women is more backwarded of what some Iranian think.

Don't compare what some people say on a forum to the general society. Generally speaking, the status of women in Iran is no where near the same as that of women in western society.

Look, let's not kid ourselves, you live in a very repressed society. What do you honestly expect from people living in such conditions? The last time I was in Iran, everyone looked miserable. The cities are underdeveloped and there are a lot of poor people. If I didn’t have family there, I wouldn't visit. There's nothing to do there or see, it's a sad sight. (And too many people there are smoking drugs all the time ).

Why don't you look through this list and then tell me Iranian society is on the same level as the rest of the world...

http://www.wfafi.org/laws.pdf#search='women in iran'

http://www.wfafi.org/

They don't even let men and women enter through the same door Lisa... stop kidding yourself.

 

[scott1]

26.5 post a day so far this thread more then franzbear...

 

[Astronuc]

And then you go ahead and talk about the Y chromosome which is only passed from father to son, I am the only one who thinks you just agreed with me despite saying you didn't? Also we are decades away from knowing how the different proteins coded on any gene affect specific areas of the body. So it is equally asinine to assume that the Y chromosome only codes for two things.

Men also pass on an X chromosome to their daughters. And Moonbear isn't agreeing with you.

My native language is Bulgarian followed by Vlashki, then English and Spanish. Which just reflects on your worldview that everyone here is from the Anglo-Saxon world unless otherwise specified.

Then you should appreciate the sometime difficulty in translation and grammar.

You say it yourself the male survives. He reproduces again, the most successful man in reproductive history (Genghis Khan) wasn't a protector. He was a warlord who was strong, healthy and cunning all positively selected traits. Nor would protectionism be a strategy which would spread genes very far as the protector is likely to die and his offspring along with him. And of course there is the nasty little statistic that one in ten children does not belong to the father who is looking after it.

But look where his decendants are today. And then there is an Irish king who may have several million descendants.

Statistically one will find that single women live longer than single men and married men. It would appear that men 'need' women more than women need men.

Those who think they are superior, are not.

 

[scott1]

So why is that men and women never grow up to stop being sexist and opposing each other? I mean they're always making bad jokes about each other and try to prove their superiority. That's pretty annoying and childish. I've to meet someone who really thinks men and women are equal. It seems to me that most of them think "well, let women to have the same rights but at the end it's us guys who rule the world." It just drives me nuts when I see men think they should take care of women and they're cleverer and stronger than women.
Am I just roverrating things because of what happened to me today or the situation is really the way I experessed?

It started way before the extistance of humans. It probally with the first dinosaurs.

 

[Bladibla]

I think that women can be friendly, and are necessary, but not for 96.8% of the women population.

 

[Lisa!]

Unless I missed something, I think Evo was just playing around (we're always looking for an excuse to take the Turbo RV out for a spin).

Not a good excuse! Evo is a mentor and she shouldn't let a thread goes off topic especially if the OP doesn't want it. know she was just playing around, but that's not good to join a kiddie and do that. Just because I'm easy going about people's comments through my thread or on me, doesn't mean mentor should let them doing that!

I don't think either culture is more modern than the other, though, I've never been to Iran to experience it first hand. Then again, it's a bit hard to quantify modernness. Nationalism really is very similar to the male/female debate. There are a lot of differences, and it seems somewhat natural for people to feel that the traits they hold or their country holds are the ones that are the best or most important. I really think it comes down to self-confidence. If you're confident enough to know that you're not going to be less of a person if you openly admit that the other sex, or another country, or another culture, etc., also has great qualities, and is as good as you at them, then you see how much more enjoyable life is to stop wasting time on meaningless comparisons (not to mention how much less hostile it would be).

Well sorry I never like it whenIranians tend to send cardpostal to themselves and saying things like we had such a great culture we're smart we're ...so you can never blame me on thatsince I always say it's not that important where you used to be, it's important that where you are and where you're going to be. Si

What I meant was that our people have the potential to be a modern country as they used to be and you shouldn't accuse whole Iranian of being backwarded and narrowminded because of a few fanatics. The problem in all cases is that it's always fanactic's voices that's heard by the world:
1. Open minded people never bother to shut them up and they also never do silly actions in order to e heard.
2. well your media wants that voice to be heard by you.

We definitely still have a problem with sexism in the US. I don't think Evo was suggesting otherwise. It has improved quite a lot in the past few decades, but it's still present, especially among the older generation. Though, what's noteworthy, and started to be presented earlier in the thread, but didn't get followed through on, is that as women are gaining a firm foothold in many male-dominated areas, there's a greater tendency of sexism toward men. In other words, if a man says a derogatory remark about women, he'll get cut off and corrected very quickly, but if a woman says a derogatory remark about men, it is very much tolerated still. I almost never hear a guy saying that a woman should do the cleaning anymore, but I still often hear women saying that men aren't any good at it, they can't see dirt, they just make a big mess, they just swish a mop around and think everything is clean, etc. You really can't have it both ways. You can't complain if men tell you cleaning is women's work and complain that men can't do the job. But somehow, people still get away with that. The reality is that there are just as many female slobs as there are male slobs, and just as many men as women who will notice even a speck out of place, or dust in the corners, or who would be disgusted at the idea of using a dirty rag to wipe down the kitchen countertops.

I'm sure that problem exists in any country and you can simply get to know that by reading some of poss here. I'm not going to say all people in US must be the same as PFer, but I guess I can say that problem does exist because of some sexist comments. Maybe they're just joking but how on Earth they usually don't make jokes in favor of canibalism!

I really hope you don't still think it's a waste of time.

I do think that way as long as my threads go off topic here and people just try to make fun of everything all the time!
It's been for a long time that I've got that idea but I still bother posting here because there are some poster here that I find their comments very insightful and helpful. However I'm not going to waste mt time with some kiddies even because of them!

 

[Monochrome]

Men also pass on an X chromosome to their daughters. And Moonbear isn't agreeing with you.

Gah, I don't know why I can't seem to get this across it all works out nicely. The Y chromosome is only passed from male to male, while the X chromosome is passed randomly from male to male or female. As females are pickier than males when it comes to choosing mates Y chromosomes on average are specifically selected twice as frequently as their accompanying X chromosome for giving a man an advantage over other males when it comes to attracting mates, which in humans mean being stronger, smarter and healthier. The whole population would gain from a beneficial mutation occurs in X while only males would do so from a beneficial mutation in Y which are equally as like to happen. Actually more so since the Y chromosome lacks the ability to repair itself. Also because of this higher screening any negative mutation in Y is removed quicker due to mate selection by females and/or inability to reproduce.

But look where his decendants are today.

Everywhere from China to Hungary?

And then there is an Irish king who may have several million descendants.

Another prodigal reproducer, do you not think that he has influenced the gene pool to a much greater extent than one following the strategy of guarding ones children?

Those who think they are superior, are not.

Superior is a human concept, I am talking about a gene which by the way it is selected must give extra benefits to those who have it. It just happens that in a capitalist society those who possesses it are rewarded greatly. Much the same way as those who possessed the genes for blue eyes were rewarded by previous societies.

 

[Lisa!]

Well cyrus I just didn't want to reply to any of your posts, since I guess the only point of your posts is botheringsome of the people around and making jokes, but well I do it for the last time anyway. I mean if you're going to be that way, I'll just ignore you like all people who I just don't care about their comments and prefer to ignnore. 1st of all it's sort of narrowmindedness to think all things I'm cooncerned about is because of where I live and sometimes I find your comments as backwarded as uneducated people who I don't usually face them in real life but I know enough of them. I guess you just play thatrole deliberately but that doean't change anything. and no don't take what I said as an insult!

Iran's culture is much older. (Ok, I'm just yanking your chain on that one ). Iran does have a long and old history and culture, that's certainly true. And women were a part of that culture.

And they still can be...

Let's not blame the Arabs for Iran's own choice of actions.

Not going to blame anyone for others' actions, however you have to admit that that's been a very important role on our current situation.

Yes, long ago. But not anymore.

We're doing our best to take that greatness bac. Well I guess this kinda help and support of Iranian decade living in western country is very heartworming!

Don't compare what some people say on a forum to the general society. Generally speaking, the status of women in Iran is no where near the same as that of women in western society.

Ya, that's right. Since I have to put on skarf in public I'm missing alot. Well I guess when I travel to western country again I have to give uo my scraf since Muslims known as terrorists there! well I do admit lots of attempts have been done in western countries to support women's rights, but however I think they're falling from the other side of wall. I mean somehoe they're violating men's rights. I think women in Iran are going to have a better situation than before, but the problem in most cases is THEMSELVES. We shouldn't expect men to fight for our rights we should do it ourselves. Anyhow I grow up in a very bright family and sort of haven't experiensed the majority of problems an Iranian woman can have in Iran!

Look, let's not kid ourselves, you live in a very repressed society. What do you honestly expect from people living in such conditions?

The important thing is the way I consider the world's issues although I live in a repressed country and even a person who lives in a modern country might not have that view.

The last time I was in Iran, everyone looked miserable. The cities are underdeveloped and there are a lot of poor people. If I didn’t have family there, I wouldn't visit. There's nothing to do there or see, it's a sad sight. (And too many people there are smoking drugs all the time ).

Well I don't know how many years ago did you travel there.

Why don't you look through this list and then tell me Iranian society is on the same level as the rest of the world...

I never said that!

They don't even let men and women enter through the same door Lisa... stop kidding yourself.

And you stop going off topic. People here admit that sexism does exist in western even if it doesn't people here can help me know how to get rid of that. But the whole points of your posts seems to make me angry. what did you want to do if I hadn't told you about my nationality? And also I didn't want you to speak about my nationality in almost very thread since I know people would simply think the way you do! most of people don't bother thinking on a topic deeply they simply like to generalze, or judge people's not ideas. They've made up their mind before the discussion and that's what I call narrowmindedness!

 

[Evo]

Not a good excuse! Evo is a mentor and she shouldn't let a thread goes off topic especially if the OP doesn't want it. know she was just playing around, but that's not good to join a kiddie and do that. Just because I'm easy going about people's comments through my thread or on me, doesn't mean mentor should let them doing that!

I was just trying to cheer you up. kiddie=cyrus? You're mad at cyrus?

 

[Danger]

what did you want to do if I hadn't told you about my nationality?

I meant to ask you about that. You told me that it wasn't to be mentioned in public. When did you 'out' yourself?

 

[Math Is Hard]

I was just trying to cheer you up. kiddie=cyrus? You're mad at cyrus?

Me, too, Lisa! I was just trying to lighten things up. Sorry if I made you mad.
However, I don't think Cyrus was really off-topic when he suggested that your perspective is somewhat influenced by your environment. Isn't that the case for all of us?

 

[Cyrus]

I was just trying to cheer you up. kiddie=cyrus? You're mad at cyrus?

Iranians show their love through hate

 

[Lisa!]

I was just trying to cheer you up.

Thanks! I guess I was too hatsh on that but that's because I wanted to have serious discussion and no I wasn't depressed at all. I hope you don't get offended by what I said but that was very unexpected for me that somehow your post was sort of in agreement with cyrus. I mean we only try to save people from a bad situation.

kiddie=cyrus? You're mad at cyrus?

Not mad at him. I just don't like him posting through my threads and makees my threads off topic. I tried to ignore him this time and I expected other helping me not leeting thhis thread go off topic

I meant to ask you about that. You told me that it wasn't to be mentioned in public. When did you 'out' yourself?

I just let others know I speak persian long time ago! Well I knew I'd have this sort of problems through my threads by revealing that!

Me, too, Lisa! I was just trying to lighten things up. Sorry if I made you mad.

I apologize as well. Today I was too tired and too irritable. You know when I'm tired I just get angry at people for any silly reason like saying hello to me.

However, I don't think Cyrus was really off-topic when he suggested that your perspective is somewhat influenced by your environment. Isn't that the case for all of us?

That depends what you mean by environment. I told you I still have to know about the problem of women in Iran. Most of women's rights here are violated by their families and in some cases it depends on which city you live.
His post is off topic IMP, because I get from his tone that he just wants to annoy me.(he wasn't successful till the saving me from Iran case) Honestly I don't think he wanted to help here.

 

[darius]

When it comes to Math and Physics so far, men do rule, although women have made contributions. The question is not whether women can do Math and Physics, but rather do they want to? Perhaps they have other priorities than sitting around solving Math problems. There is always a man to do that. Who could blame them?

 

[Math Is Hard]

When it comes to Physics and Mathematics, men do rule, although women have made contributions. It is not that women cannot make great contributions, but rather do they really want to?

It hasn't been all that long that women have even been allowed to make contributions. For a very long time, universities were very resistant to the idea of admitting women. How could a woman gain the necessary knowledge and credentials to contribute without an education?

Perhaps they have better things to do. And what is wrong with being pampered?

Heck, nothing. I never met a man or a woman who didn't enjoy that!

I do not blame them for not wanting to sit around solving math problems when they have other priorities.

The women I work with are all programmers who spend most of their time developing financial systems. Essentially, they sit around solving math problems all day because it is their priority. And because they enjoy it.

 

[Aether]

what did you want to do if I hadn't told you about my nationality? And also I didn't want you to speak about my nationality in almost very thread since I know people would simply think the way you do!

I didn't know your nationality before this. I think that having you here at PF is even more special than before.

 

[SpaceTiger]

So why is that men and women never grow up to stop being sexist and opposing each other? I mean they're always making bad jokes about each other and try to prove their superiority.

In my experience, true sexism is usually not so overt. The male/female superiority jokes are usually just that, jokes. To see the real sexism inherent in our society, just watch the way men and women are portrayed on television. Alkatran noted:

TV tells me women are smarter, stronger, faster, and prettier. When was the last time you saw a commercial where a guy showed-up a girl?

There's truth to it, but why? Is it sexism favoring women? No, in fact, I think it's the opposite. On television, it's much more acceptable for the weak to beat up on the strong. For the same reason that you seldom see a human beating up on a dog or cat, you'll seldom see a man beating up (or even showing up) a woman.

I don't think this perception comes from television, I think it's already ingrained in our society. I see it every day at work. Even in science, most women I see are more submissive and soft-spoken in conversation (even if not in their publishing record) and I think this could make it difficult for them compete for some jobs. It seems like women are subconciously viewed as weaker and are cultured to reinforce this perception.

If true, is it a problem? After all, some of these traits that set women at a disadvantage in the workplace could be said to be more desirable. Empathy? Open-mindedness? Tact? Is it so bad to have those qualities? Do we really want a society full of people optimized to become CEOs?

I've to meet someone who really thinks men and women are equal. It seems to me that most of them think "well, let women to have the same rights but at the end it's us guys who rule the world."

It's not a gender that rules the world, but rather, I think, a set of personality types. It just happens that in politics and business, those qualities that are typically "male" (whether by culture or biology) are more advantageous. On the other hand, look at, say, pop music. The pop "diva" is a very powerful figurehead and has qualities that are very difficult to reproduce in a man.

 

[Moonbear]

Gah, I don't know why I can't seem to get this across it all works out nicely. The Y chromosome is only passed from male to male, while the X chromosome is passed randomly from male to male or female.

Uh...nope. The male's Y chromosome is passed to his sons, and his X chromosome to his daughters. Each woman has two X chromosomes, one from her mother and one from her father, and there's an equal chance of either being passed on to either daughters or sons. And then there are all the rest of the chromosomes that don't matter which gender you are. Since we all have brains and muscles, those aren't coded for on the Y chromosome.

As females are pickier than males when it comes to choosing mates Y chromosomes on average are specifically selected twice as frequently as their accompanying X chromosome for giving a man an advantage over other males when it comes to attracting mates, which in humans mean being stronger, smarter and healthier.

You're making no sense at all there.

The whole population would gain from a beneficial mutation occurs in X while only males would do so from a beneficial mutation in Y which are equally as like to happen.

Only if that particular X chromosome is passed to the next generation. If the mutation is on the father's X-chromosome and he only has sons, it's not passed to anyone.

Actually more so since the Y chromosome lacks the ability to repair itself.

Where do you get that notion from?

Also because of this higher screening any negative mutation in Y is removed quicker due to mate selection by females and/or inability to reproduce.

If it is something that affects reproduction and/or produces an obvious phenotype, maybe. But, there are Y-linked diseases that are passed along, so this is not fool-proof.

And in response to your earlier post, there are more than three PROMINENT female scientists throughout history. When people like you choose to ignore their contributions, it doesn't make their contributions any less important.