Males vs. Females: Equality or Prejudice?

[Moonbear]

Those who think they are superior, are not.

Generally, they are the ones who fail to see their own flaws. That, or they selectively weight their attributes as more important characteristics than those that are their weaknesses.

 

[Cyrus]

Ya, that's right. Since I have to put on skarf in public I'm missing alot. Well I guess when I travel to western country again I have to give uo my scraf since Muslims known as terrorists there!

That's not true, you are free to choose if you want to wear it or not in the west. (Except for schools in france, but then again their french what do you expect from them )

well I do admit lots of attempts have been done in western countries to support women's rights, but however I think they're falling from the other side of wall. I mean somehoe they're violating men's rights.

Nope. They are not attempts, they are successes that have given women equality. Hell, we have women CEO's, Actresses, politicians, doctors, lawyers, astronauts, airline pilots, generals, the list goes on and on lisa...

As a man, I can tell you that I still have all my rights and then some.

I think women in Iran are going to have a better situation than before, but the problem in most cases is THEMSELVES. We shouldn't expect men to fight for our rights we should do it ourselves. Anyhow I grow up in a very bright family and sort of haven't experiensed the majority of problems an Iranian woman can have in Iran!

And I think Iran has gone only backwards in the last 30 years, not forwards. How the hell does a country that is so rich in natural resources have such a poor population? Ans: Corruption. (Frankly, religious corruption.)...yes and the cost of a 10 year war, I recognize that. But you know what I'm saying.

The important thing is the way I consider the world's issues although I live in a repressed country and even a person who lives in a modern country might not have that view.

That's just it. I'm very doubtful you are getting the true world's view. I think you are getting spin by press controlled by the Mullahs.

stop going off topic. People here admit that sexism does exist in western even if it doesn't people here can help me know how to get rid of that.

Lisa, please be careful about what you say. If you want to get rid of sexism in Iran, you are playing with fire. In fact, I would caution you to be careful about what you do say online, because the government might be monitoring you. I remember when I was there it was illegal to have a satellite TV because they did not want the people to have access to media that was not controlled by the government.

But the whole points of your posts seems to make me angry.

Because it's a sad and angering truth that I'm telling you and deep down you know its true.

what did you want to do if I hadn't told you about my nationality? And also I didn't want you to speak about my nationality in almost very thread since I know people would simply think the way you do!

Sorry, you never told me that. If the give you a hard time let me know, I'll take care of em for you .

Sadly, I don't see Iran maturing politically. They are right back to 1979 with the new president. I mean honestly, do the people sit down and listen to this guy spout his mouth off and just nod their heads in approval?

Have they lost their common sense? Maybe they should go back to history and read up on Cyrus the great, the persian king that freed the jews...

I think the problem is more than just sexism, it's a culture too lazy to stand up and change things for the better in general.

 

[Tyris]

Another interesting point is history; his-story.

And that is why all folk etymologists should be shot on sight. The term history comes from the Greek "ιστορία" (historia), "an account of one's inquiries."

Since we all have brains and muscles, those aren't coded for on the Y chromosome.

You realize of course that we all have 23 pairs of chromosomes, and different parts of brains and muscles are likely to be coded for on more than one each.

Anyway, I don't think I'm superior to women. Or rather, I do... but I think I'm superior to men as well, by virtue of being me. Me>you, until proven otherwise.
Personally, I'm going to do away with the need for gender by growing a baby at the end of my arm, like a strawberry plant.

 

[Moonbear]

You realize of course that we all have 23 pairs of chromosomes, and different parts of brains and muscles are likely to be coded for on more than one each.

Yes, and that's precisely the point. Just the Y-chromosome isn't determining everything. Actually, there are a few forms of muscular dystrophy that are X-linked recessive traits, which just helps emphasize that the Y-chromosome isn't the source of all muscle and brain development that Monochrome seems to believe it is.

Anyway, I don't think I'm superior to women. Or rather, I do... but I think I'm superior to men as well, by virtue of being me. Me>you, until proven otherwise.

As long as you're not being sexist in your superiority complex.

Personally, I'm going to do away with the need for gender by growing a baby at the end of my arm, like a strawberry plant.

Sure, take all the fun out of it. But your joke makes a good point...that's the really silly thing about all the sexist stuff...reproducing still requires both sexes. One can argue superiority of one over the other all day long, but in the end, if they can't count on the other sex being around, they're not going to pass their genes to the next generation.

 

[Lisa!]

That's not true, you are free to choose if you want to wear it or not in the west. (Except for schools in france, but then again their french what do you expect from them )

I meant I can't waer scraf because I don't feel secure and I don't want to be considered as backwarded and opresses person!

Nope. They are not attempts, they are successes that have given women equality. Hell, we have women CEO's, Actresses, politicians, doctors, lawyers, astronauts, airline pilots, generals, the list goes on and on lisa...

Here we also have them other than singer, dancer and pilots! Anyway I also can move to a western country and proudly brag about other's sucesses just like you! well thatsounds fine to me since I just don't care about those facts like nationality that I've not chosen by myself!:zzz:

As a man, I can tell you that I still have all my rights and then some.

As a woman I can tell you men have more difficult situation in Iran than women!

And I think Iran has gone only backwards in the last 30 years, not forwards. How the hell does a country that is so rich in natural resources have such a poor population? Ans: Corruption. (Frankly, religious corruption.)...yes and the cost of a 10 year war, I recognize that. But you know what I'm saying.

somehow yes! But it wasn't going backwarded whole that 30 years and also I am still in doubt that the situation was any better before that revolution...

That's just it. I'm very doubtful you are getting the true world's view. I think you are getting spin by press controlled by the Mullahs.

How can I be brainwashed by them when I don't listen only to our media and most of the time get the news from net and BBC?
Go read some of your pots in P&WA forum and see how you get pissed off when you're discussing Islam with PF'ers, te riligion that I'm in doubt that you even follow its rules!

Lisa, please be careful about what you say. If you want to get rid of sexism in Iran, you are playing with fire. In fact, I would caution you to be careful about what you do say online, because the government might be monitoring you. I remember when I was there it was illegal to have a satellite TV because they did not want the people to have access to media that was not controlled by the government.

It's still illegal and many people have that! Well and most of those people just watch silly TV shows not News or science programs...
Thank you for your concerns anyway...

Because it's a sad and angering truth that I'm telling you and deep down you know its true.

Now let's listen to some of those deep down truth:
If you are not happy, I can arrange a marriage for you Lisa! Why are you not yet arranged to be wed? Something must be wrong with you. Are you really that ugly? You shuold have 7-10 kids by now.

Yes, being Iranian is a disease...damn Iranians



Honestly cyrus, I think you seem traped in this thread, since you didn't expect your silly jokes get such a reaction from me! See I agree wit some of your points but the problem is that you're just going on this discussion to prov you weren't ironic or just making silly jokes! And boy if you really wanted to make points in thsi thread I have to say there must be something wrong with you since no decent person won't make jokes or blame somone on not pleasing thing in her/his life that are out of that person's hand...

Sorry, you never told me that. If the give you a hard time let me know, I'll take care of em for you .

I just don't like you to draw attention of those narrowminded people to my nationality instadof the topic of my thread. Anyway decent people tend to keep what they're told in private, confidential!
Here I can address a number of threads full of sexist comments mabe by noniranian but then again you just want to narrow the problem of sexim to my country!

I think the problem is more than just sexism, it's a culture too lazy to stand up and change things for the better in general.

Yeah, they're too lazy. they think they should sit back and only crtisize and blame others. some of them prefer to move abroad and well most of the time they just try to disappoint the rest who're going to do something about that!
As why people just keep quiet right now? well simple! western countries' threats just make Iranians to support their centralgovrnment more than before since they're not going to experince another war and some foriegners in their country. True or fals thatbthe wat they feel it must be true. Sometimes I think the whole story of Nuclear Iran is a scenario written by some of powerful countries and mullahs to reinforce the cenral government of Iran!

 

[Lisa!]

I didn't know your nationality before this. I think that having you here at PF is even more special than before.

Very nice of you! You know I just wanted to be considered as a ordinary human beings not a opressed barinwashed Iranian girl...

 

[Astronuc]

Well and most of those people just watch silly TV shows not News or science programs...

Same problem in the west.

 

[Cyrus]

I meant I can't waer scraf because I don't feel secure and I don't want to be considered as backwarded and opresses person!

Ok, I can see your point on that one. Some people are still narrow minded and will give you bad looks, but that does not negate the fact that you have a choice to wear the scarf or not.

Here we also have them other than singer, dancer and pilots! Anyway I also can move to a western country and proudly brag about other's sucesses just like you! well thatsounds fine to me since I just don't care about those facts like nationality that I've not chosen by myself!:zzz:

Well, why can't women be a singer, dancer or pilot in Iran??

I never moved to a western country to brag about other's sucesses, I was born here Lisa.

As a woman I can tell you men have more difficult situation in Iran than women!

Maybe you do, but that's not true here in the States. So you can't apply the problem men face in Iran to the men in the US.

somehow yes! But it wasn't going backwarded whole that 30 years and also I am still in doubt that the situation was any better before that revolution...

At least there were no sanctions, the military was strong, and the country was not run by religious zealots.

How can I be brainwashed by them when I don't listen only to our media and most of the time get the news from net and BBC?
Go read some of your pots in P&WA forum and see how you get pissed off when you're discussing Islam with PF'ers, te riligion that I'm in doubt that you even follow its rules!

I discuss Islam because the media does a horrible job of getting their facts straight. For the most part, the United States is uneducated on Islam, but I can't blame them. All they get is misrepresentation from FOX news . But why should I follow Islams rules, I never said I was muslim.

Answer:

It's (satellite television) still illegal and many people have that! Well and most of those people just watch silly TV shows not News or science programs... Thank you for your concerns anyway...

You answered your own question Lisa.

Now let's listen to some of those deep down truth:
If you are not happy, I can arrange a marriage for you Lisa! Why are you not yet arranged to be wed? Something must be wrong with you. Are you really that ugly? You shuold have 7-10 kids by now.

Yes, being Iranian is a disease...damn Iranians

That was me teasing you Lisa

Still looking for a husband? I'll marry you !

I just don't like you to draw attention of those narrowminded people to my nationality instadof the topic of my thread. Anyway decent people tend to keep what they're told in private, confidential!
Here I can address a number of threads full of sexist comments mabe by noniranian but then again you just want to narrow the problem of sexim to my country!

Because, in your situtaion sexism is a MUCH bigger problem than in the west. If people do not know where you are coming from, they (like myself) would say what the heck are you talking about? I can honestly say that I hardly ever see people make a big deal about sex at either work or school. For the most part, people have learned to deal with it and move on.

Yeah, they're too lazy. they think they should sit back and only crtisize and blame others. some of them prefer to move abroad and well most of the time they just try to disappoint the rest who're going to do something about that!

Wrong, my family moved here before the revolution took place.

As why people just keep quiet right now? well simple! western countries' threats just make Iranians to support their centralgovrnment more than before since they're not going to experince another war and some foriegners in their country. True or fals thatbthe wat they feel it must be true. Sometimes I think the whole story of Nuclear Iran is a scenario written by some of powerful countries and mullahs to reinforce the cenral government of Iran!

That's lame. Come on lisa, all you have to do is listen to some of the stupid stuff that comes out of the president of Iran's mouth to realize why the west isn't too happy with him. That's no reason for them to rally behind the guy that's putting them into trouble in the first place!

 

[Lisa!]

Ok, I can see your point on that one. Some people are still narrow minded and will give you bad looks, but that does not negate the fact that you have a choice to wear the scarf or not.

Ya, but I still can't sayI have freewil there. See I am not supporting central government on forcing people to waer scraf... Reza Shah wanted to force women cover off and the're forcing them to cover, NON woul;d be successful so far. When they make such a big deal on personal freedom like cover, they cause more damage. Don't care to explain how...:zzz:

Well, why can't women be a singer, dancer or pilot in Iran??

I'm not sure about pilots perhaps we have. But we also don't have male dancer. The reason seem obvious on dancer and singer case...

I never moved to a western country to brag about other's sucesses, I was born here Lisa.

I don't care about your case! I meant I also can mov there and be in the same situation as yours. And you I know you were born there since you can't speak persian..

Maybe you do, but that's not true here in the States. So you can't apply the problem men face in Iran to the men in the US.

I was not applying that. I just wanted to say it's not true that pople always think women are the victims of sexism here...

At least there were no sanctions, the military was strong, and the country was not run by religious zealots.

Sorta seems naive to me. I still thinkthe situarion was as bad as now. I just can say well at least lots of people didn't die during a war and we could have the latest technoogy in the world... But still not enough and saticfying..

I discuss Islam because the media does a horrible job of getting their facts straight. For the most part, the United States is uneducated on Islam, but I can't blame them. All they get is misrepresentation from FOX news .

Aha! I usually don't get angry at poeple's comments here since I know they're brainwashed in some cases. BUT how can we make sure that's not the same about sexim problem in Iran and Iran situation?

But why should I follow Islams rules, I never said I was muslim.

And I guess you are not! But it's strang wehn you get pissed off coz of that. well I just don't insult people when people have a wrong view on things that I don't care about that much...

You answered your own question Lisa.

which question?

That was me teasing you Lisa

That's what you want to do even through this thread!

Still looking for a husband?

NOT looking for 1 sinc they're around if I want. I just prefer to decid instead of them and simply reject them since I don't want to tell them I'm sufferng MS. well that was my 20th birthday present!

I'll marry you !

I don't like kiddies since they're immature!

Because, in your situtaion sexism is a MUCH bigger problem than in the west. If people do not know where you are coming from, they (like myself) would say what the heck are you talking about?

Nobody say that since I was mostly talking about those awful joks and stuff like that. Seems to me you didn't read the OP..And from what I get of PF'ers those jokes and battle sexism Does exist, ok?

I can honestly say that I hardly ever see people make a big deal about sex at either work or school. For the most part, people have learned to deal with it and move on.

Well here's getting almost t same way. NOT quite like west , hehe boys are getting cuter and mor stylish than women...

Wrong, my family moved here before the revolution took place.

why do youthink it's only about you? It's not! and well anyway somehow you canreflect your families' views as well...

That's lame. Come on lisa, all you have to do is listen to some of the stupid stuff that comes out of the president of Iran's mouth to realize why the west isn't too happy with him. That's no reason for them to rally behind the guy that's putting them into trouble in the first place!

He only talks and isn't going to act base on that, don't you realize that? I still like my conspiracy theory.

 

[wolram]

Flirtation alert

 

[Astronuc]

. . . all you have to do is listen to some of the stupid stuff that comes out of the president of Iran's mouth to realize why the west isn't too happy with him. That's no reason for them to rally behind the guy that's putting them into trouble in the first place!

One could say the same thing about the current US president.

 

[Smurf]

Very nice of you! You know I just wanted to be considered as a ordinary human beings not a opressed barinwashed Iranian girl...

if its worth anything, I've always thought of you as opressed and brainwashed !

 

[Cyrus]

One could say the same thing about the current US president.

That's why his poll numbers are on the constant decline.

NOT looking for 1 sinc they're around if I want. I just prefer to decid instead of them and simply reject them since I don't want to tell them I'm sufferng MS. well that was my 20th birthday present!

I'm sorry to hear that Lisa

I don't like kiddies since they're immature!

Oh, I think you are in love with me, admit it woman!

 

[Irresistible_Force]

So why is that men and women never grow up to stop being sexist and opposing each other? I mean they're always making bad jokes about each other and try to prove their superiority. That's pretty annoying and childish. I've to meet someone who really thinks men and women are equal. It seems to me that most of them think "well, let women to have the same rights but at the end it's us guys who rule the world." It just drives me nuts when I see men think they should take care of women and they're cleverer and stronger than women.
Am I just roverrating things because of what happened to me today or the situation is really the way I experessed?

Will you buy your daughter blue jeans and war toys?
Will you buy your son tu-tus and baby dolls?
If you perpetuate the cultural norms then you can't help but imprint these
very qualities and differences on your own children. Thus being programmed
to behave as a boy, or a girl, they will grow up and always
be aware of this schizm.
The only cure then, would be to raise gender neutral
children, otherwise they would only grow up to try to ignore the
difference out of politeness, not really solving your problem.
Would you not feel uncomfortable with this not-normal child in front of
his/her (great or )grandmother/father or your peers?
Wouldn't it be unfair to the child, not giving them the opportunity
to be normal?

Don't you want normal children?

 

[Curious3141]

Here we also have them other than singer, dancer and pilots!

On the topic of doctors (male and female), I wonder if you could clarify something for me, Lisa. In Iran, is a doctor allowed to examine a patient of the opposite sex? (Male doctor/female patient and vice versa). Just something I've always been curious about.

 

[Astronuc]

Oh, I think you are in love with me, admit it woman!

Actually, Lisa!, you might be impressed with Cyrus if you met him. Having met him in person myself, he is quite intelligent, thoughtful, handsome and very polite - he has the makings of good man.

 

[Lisa!]

if its worth anything, I've always thought of you as opressed and brainwashed !

Oh dear God! THe numbrof kidies increase during the summer...
Anyway, you still ow me 1, remember?

On the topic of doctors (male and female), I wonder if you could clarify something for me, Lisa. In Iran, is a doctor allowed to examine a patient of the opposite sex? (Male doctor/female patient and vice versa). Just something I've always been curious about.

Of course they do! Most of our best doctors are males and most of people even religious 1 prefer to be visited by them. Right now it's mostly women who are preferred to study women diseases at universities but it's ok to visit a male doctor even for that stuff. The doctors feel free to act like docs in your contries. You know what I mean, patients need more attention. Crazy docs, some of them even pinch their patint cheek.

Oh, I think you are in love with me, admit it woman!

:zzz: :zzz:
I've heard that some Iranian guys tease the girl they love but I always thought that's a joke...

Actually, Lisa!, you might be impressed with Cyrus if you met him. Having met him in person myself, he is quite intelligent, thoughtful, handsome and very polite - he has the makings of good man.

That's nice of you to see him nice. I'm sure guys from Shiraz aren't handsome at all.

 

[Danger]

he is quite intelligent, thoughtful, handsome and very polite - he has the makings of good man.

And he likes Roadrunners, so he can't be all bad.

 

[wolram]

And he likes Roadrunners, so he can't be all bad.

And do not forget aeroplanes and motorbikes, he can not be all bad

 

[wolram]

Hey Lisa, how about visiting England, i have a spare room, so lodging will not cost you, and the best thing is i am hardly ever at home at night, and you could visit S on Avon, get a taste of us westerners, the only thing i ask in return for your board and lodgings is that you water my new flower boxes.

 

[Curious3141]

Of course they do! Most of our best doctors are males and most of people even religious 1 prefer to be visited by them. Right now it's mostly women who are preferred to study women diseases at universities but it's ok to visit a male doctor even for that stuff. The doctors feel free to act like docs in your contries. You know what I mean, patients need more attention.

Thanks for the clarification. Goes to show how we can make unfounded assumptions about a country, only to be proven wrong by a person with real experience.

Crazy docs, some of them even pinch their patint cheek.

Err.. depending on exactly which cheek you pinch, you can get into loads of trouble for that.

 

[Lisa!]

Thanks for the clarification. Goes to show how we can make unfounded assumptions about a country, only to be proven wrong by a person with real experience.

That's why I hang around here and want to know people here better. I admit that my opinions on western people have changed alot.

Err.. depending on exactly which cheek you pinch, you can get into loads of trouble for that.

 

[marlon]

So why is that men and women never grow up to stop being sexist and opposing each other? I mean they're always making bad jokes about each other and try to prove their superiority.

Ohh, what do you care about that. C'mon, there are much more interesting things to be explored you know. Go explore boys, in stead of sittin' behind some PC askin' questions like this.

That's pretty annoying and childish.

"CHILDISH" ? Well, maybe that's just what we are all about ? I mean if all males and females exhiobit this quality ? What is the problem here ?

No point in wondering about this...Just sit back, relax and enjoy...


marlon

 

[Evo]

Great article on the differences between genders.

Here's something to chew on.

"And it's not true for green spoon worms. This animal, which lives on the sea floor, has one of the largest known size differences between male and female: the male is 200,000 times smaller. He spends his whole life in her reproductive tract, fertilizing eggs by regurgitating sperm through his mouth. He's so different from his mate that when he was first discovered by science, he was not recognized as being a green spoon worm; instead, he was thought to be a parasite."

The magnificent difference between male and female green spoon worms, for example, has nothing to do with their having different genes: each green spoon worm larva could go either way. Which sex it becomes depends on whether it meets a female during its first three weeks of life. If it meets a female, it becomes male and prepares to regurgitate; if it doesn't, it becomes female and settles into a crack on the sea floor."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/23/o...=70bf9e1f375fce4c&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland

 

[Astronuc]

Something to consider:

The male praying mantis cannot copulate while its head is attached to its body. The female initiates sex by ripping the male's head off.

My daughter sent this to me.

 

[Moonbear]

Will you buy your daughter blue jeans and war toys?
Will you buy your son tu-tus and baby dolls?
If you perpetuate the cultural norms then you can't help but imprint these
very qualities and differences on your own children. Thus being programmed
to behave as a boy, or a girl, they will grow up and always
be aware of this schizm.
The only cure then, would be to raise gender neutral
children, otherwise they would only grow up to try to ignore the
difference out of politeness, not really solving your problem.
Would you not feel uncomfortable with this not-normal child in front of
his/her (great or )grandmother/father or your peers?
Wouldn't it be unfair to the child, not giving them the opportunity
to be normal?

Don't you want normal children?

War toys and tu-tus are required for having normal children?

Blue jeans are hardly for just one gender or the other anymore. So, yep, whether I have a boy or a girl, they'll probably wear them. If they wish to play with baby dolls, they can have those too, same with "war toys" (I guess you mean like toy soldiers and little tanks and stuff).

Why would you think it's not normal if a girl plays with "war toys"? I had toy guns as a kid, and balls and bats and all that fun stuff, and wore blue jeans, and helped my dad build stuff. I definitely did not wear tutus. Though, I did also play with dolls (and popped their arms and legs off and was the "surgeon" that fixed them again...not exactly "nurturing" but I did some of that too...my cousins and I even smeared pumpkin pie in a diaper and stuck it on another cousin's Cabbage Patch Doll and told her the diaper needed changing ). It's the attitude that this is somehow not normal that is the problem.