Palin pick an insult to our intelligence

[Jimmy Snyder]

Odd that you would know that and our own current VP conjures a different picture when it suits his convenience to avoid deposition.

You're ahead of me on this one. Did Cheney display ignorance of the constituents of the executive branch?

 

[deckart]

Wow, I just watched the interview and I'm impressed. Her answers were intelligent and detailed. She is a solid conservative, unlike McCain.

McCain did good by choosing her. Now the right has someone to vote for.

 

[LowlyPion]

You're ahead of me on this one. Did Cheney display ignorance of the constituents of the executive branch?

For your reading pleasure.
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jun/22/nation/na-cheney22

His understanding of the privilege is situational.

 

[Cyrus]

Holy Moly! Has anyone seen this clip of Palin trying to justify her statements about God and the Iraq war? Watch as out of nowhere she suddenly brings up her son! WTH? I'm sorry, listening to this just reminds me of that poor Miss USA contestant, I was waiting for Palin to suggest we give other countries maps.

She really does not do well in unrehearsed interviews. She hunched over and watch her hands. Perhaps I should not tip them off, eh?

Click on the third video clip down titled "Palin clarifies God and War Remarks" for the gist of her remarks.

http://abcnews.go.com/wn

Wow how pathetic. Using your own son as political points.

 

[LowlyPion]

Wow, I just watched the interview and I'm impressed. Her answers were intelligent and detailed. She is a solid conservative, unlike McCain.

McCain did good by choosing her. Now the right has someone to vote for.

Since you claim to own assault weapons I'd suspect you came to the interview with your rosy glasses already.

My personal opinion is that she is a shallow thinker easily swayed by religious dogma and not someone who could ever be trusted to make important policy. Her stands on such extreme belief as creationism and conception and stem cell research put her at odds with science and logic. The idea that such an extreme person could ever have command decision for nuclear weaponry is chilling.

 

[Evo]

Wow, I just watched the interview and I'm impressed. Her answers were intelligent and detailed.

Intelligent and detailed? Please quote those here, I'm serious. I've read the transcript and apparently missed them.

PALIN: I believe that there is a plan for this world and that plan for this world is for good. I believe that there is great hope and great potential for every country to be able to live and be protected with inalienable rights that I believe are God-given, Charlie, and I believe that those are the rights to life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That, in my world view, is a grand -- the grand plan.

And the, the Iraq, the South Africa, they don't have maps.

Transcript

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser/2008/09/the-palin-inter.html

 

[LowlyPion]

Intelligent and detailed? Please quote those here, I'm serious. I've read the transcript and apparently missed them.

If feels a bit like time warp to me and this Palin person feels more like she is running for High School Class Vice President or Cheerleader or something.

It's got that Romy and Michele's High School Reunion kind of surreal feel papiermâchéd on top of what should be actual serious policy discussions.

 

[Gokul43201]

You're ahead of me on this one. Did Cheney display ignorance of the constituents of the executive branch?

Here you go:

Civics Quiz: Is Cheney Part of the Executive Branch?

A quick civics quiz: Is the vice president part of the executive branch? You might think the answer is obvious, but apparently not to Vice President Dick Cheney.

The man a heartbeat away from the Oval Office asserts that some rules that apply to everyone else in the executive branch do not apply to him.

Cheney has refused to comply with a request from the National Archives to hand over classified documents. The vice president's office insists that, unlike every other employee of the executive branch, that rule does not include him and his staff.

At a White House briefing, deputy press secretary Dana Perino was asked if the president believes Cheney is part of the executive branch.

"I think that's an interesting constitutional question, and I think that lots of people can debate it," Perino said.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3316434&page=1

 

[LowlyPion]

Here are more complete excerpts of the transcript:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5782924&page=1

GIBSON: But this is not just reforming a government. This is also running a government on the huge international stage in a very dangerous world. When I asked John McCain about your national security credentials, he cited the fact that you have commanded the Alaskan National Guard and that Alaska is close to Russia. Are those sufficient credentials?

PALIN: But it is about reform of government and it's about putting government back on the side of the people, and that has much to do with foreign policy and national security issues Let me speak specifically about a credential that I do bring to this table, Charlie, and that's with the energy independence that I've been working on for these years as the governor of this state that produces nearly 20 percent of the U.S. domestic supply of energy, that I worked on as chairman of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, overseeing the oil and gas development in our state to produce more for the United States.

She completely didn't address the question. She wants to talk about energy independence in a state that she claims produces %20 of the energy consumed by the US, but has just about .2% of the population? This she offers up as experience suitable to run the country? Such answers not related to the questions asked?

I think her response is a bit bizarre, and demonstrates that she still doesn't know what the job is about.

 

[deckart]

She obviously is NOT A LIBERAL. To expect her to speak along liberal values is ludicrous. She speaks directly to the conservative base. It's very entertaining to see liberals act as if everything she says is "out there". It's typical conservative dogma. If you haven't heard it before, you need to get out more. What do you expect?

As a conservative myself, I think she is right on target.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Wow, I just watched the interview and I'm impressed. Her answers were intelligent and detailed. She is a solid conservative, unlike McCain.

McCain did good by choosing her. Now the right has someone to vote for.

Come one Deckart I'm sure that even you can hear just how terrible that interview went. The local conservative talk show hosts where I live have been tearing her a new one over this interview. They picked apart everything she said, pointed out all of the rehearsed bits, and figure she must have been told to bring up 'reform' and 'change' as much as possible. They even tore apart her belief that she's fully ready for the job, even to be president, and apparently didn't think once (let alone twice) about whether or not she's qualified.

Gibson's comment on 'hubris' was quite perfect and the way that she ignored him when he said it just illustrated the point further.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Here you go:

I think that's an interesting constitutional question, and I think that lots of people can debate it

Thanks Gokul43201. I agree that lots of people can debate it, but I don't agree that it would be interesting.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

For your reading pleasure.

Thanks LowlyPion. Like an amusement park ride, pleasure mixed with fear.

 

[castlegates]

From what I saw of the interview ... it was ugly.
Why she felt she needed to act as if she knew what she was talking about is beyond me. When you don't know the answer to something, just admit it, and move on, or say, I'll get back with you on that one. She set herself up, and got played like a fiddle.

I was waiting for Charlie to ask what the capital of Iowa was. He had an agenda, with a goal to make her come off exactly as she did. The Bush doctrine? How many know what that is? Who cares what Bush has to say. Even republicans don't listen what he has to say, so why would she know what the Bush doctrine is?

Rather than be something she is not, she should just be what she is, and let the cards fall where they may. She is after all ...
BUBBLY!

 

[Evo]

As a conservative myself, I think she is right on target.

This is my second request for you to back yourself up.

Please post these quotes of hers from this interview that were, as you put it, "intelligent and detailed".

 

[Astronuc]

She obviously is NOT A LIBERAL. To expect her to speak along liberal values is ludicrous.

Values like honesty and justice for all? I don't expect that from Palin, or Bush, or Cheney, or the right. So far they have proven me correct.

Contrary to Palin's comment during the interview with Gibson - she did make a presumptuous statement - or she simply utters false statements.

 

[LowlyPion]

She obviously is NOT A LIBERAL. To expect her to speak along liberal values is ludicrous. She speaks directly to the conservative base. It's very entertaining to see liberals act as if everything she says is "out there". It's typical conservative dogma. If you haven't heard it before, you need to get out more. What do you expect?

As a conservative myself, I think she is right on target.

And she is obviously not a clear or deep thinker.

The expectation is not that she would embrace Liberal values, so much as the expectation that she would be capable of intelligent analysis, and able to engage on the issues facing the country. For her to think that she is actually qualified, indicates how little she actually understands of the job, and how much she apparently overvalues her ability to do it.

 

[turbo]

Watching her back-pedal on her remarks on God's will and the Iraq war was painful in the extreme, especially when she invoked Lincoln. As a governor, she should be acutely aware of the existence of video cameras at public events, and should know that her remarks are recorded in context. She should know that when we watch her linking God to the war, then later try to spin the remarks into something they were not, at least some of us are thinking "liar". I have a couple of male relatives who are evangelicals and they believe in the end times preachings. When I think of having someone like them in positions of power, I cringe.

Even more so, when Palin was blithely talking about standing up for our allies. Saber-rattling is not the answer to every problem in the world, and it is disturbing to think that somebody with apocalyptic beliefs might be in a position to take this country into a "just" war. Bush/Cheney are bad. McCain-Palin promises to be much, much worse, continuing the neo-con policies, and putting us at greater risk for more wars and economic trouble.

 

[mheslep]

Watch what Matt Damon has to say on Palin.

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=C6urw_PWHYk

Why?

 

[asdfggfdsa]

After watching the Gibson interview and judging some of McCain's positions, I think my vote is sealed.

 

[LowlyPion]

Maybe this exchange exemplifies the level of understanding she possesses about matters.

GIBSON: What insight into Russian actions, particularly in the last couple of weeks, does the proximity of the state give you?

PALIN: They're our next door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/Story?id=5782924&page=2

Vapid, lame, evasive, irrelevant, simplistic, non-responsive. Perhaps qualities like this serve her well with Pentecostals, but taken within the context of her holding actual power is certainly frightening to me.

 

[asdfggfdsa]

Maybe this exchange exemplifies the level of understanding she possesses about matters.


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/Story?id=5782924&page=2

Vapid, lame, evasive, irrelevant, simplistic, non-responsive. Perhaps qualities like this serve her well with Pentecostals, but taken within the context of her holding actual power is certainly frightening to me.

I agree. I don't think McCain is talking to the realists like Scowcroft anymore.

 

[LowlyPion]

I agree. I don't think McCain is talking to the realists like Scowcroft anymore.

I'd be interested to get the inside story on McCain's thinking and what actual considerations and discussions led him to make this Faustian move. Undoubtedly it has more to do with electoral calculus than with any so called principles he would hold. The meanness and misrepresentations that he is engaging in, or he permits to be engaged in under his name, is a bit of a surprise as it holds his earlier statements about wanting to wage a higher discussion of the issues to rather stark ridicule.

 

[turbo]

I'd be interested to get the inside story on McCain's thinking and what actual considerations and discussions led him to make this Faustian move. Undoubtedly it has more to do with electoral calculus than with any so called principles he would hold. The meanness and misrepresentations that he is engaging in, or he permits to be engaged in under his name, is a bit of a surprise as it holds his earlier statements about wanting to wage a higher discussion of the issues to rather stark ridicule.

He's kind of stuck, though. He can't discuss issues intelligently because he's committed to continuing most of the Bush-Cheney policies that people are sick of. What does that leave? Character assassination, smears, lying about your opponents' positions - dirt. Dirt is McCain's only chance, and if the national polls are anywhere near accurate, it's working.

Will the electorate get tired of 50+ more days of dirt with no substance? That's a loaded question because most voters don't have the intelligence and/or the initiative to educate themselves on complex issues so they can tell when they're being lied to. With such people (who rely on party loyalty as opposed to reasoning and evaluation), dirt works, and substance bores them to tears because they don't understand the issues well enough to follow a discussion of them.

 

[BobG]

Watching her back-pedal on her remarks on God's will and the Iraq war was painful in the extreme, especially when she invoked Lincoln. As a governor, she should be acutely aware of the existence of video cameras at public events, and should know that her remarks are recorded in context. She should know that when we watch her linking God to the war, then later try to spin the remarks into something they were not, at least some of us are thinking "liar". I have a couple of male relatives who are evangelicals and they believe in the end times preachings. When I think of having someone like them in positions of power, I cringe.

Even more so, when Palin was blithely talking about standing up for our allies. Saber-rattling is not the answer to every problem in the world, and it is disturbing to think that somebody with apocalyptic beliefs might be in a position to take this country into a "just" war. Bush/Cheney are bad. McCain-Palin promises to be much, much worse, continuing the neo-con policies, and putting us at greater risk for more wars and economic trouble.

The quote in context from AP:

Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God," she said. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

The full quote:

“Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God,” she exhorted the congregants. “That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.”

Gibson's interview:

GIBSON: You said recently, in your old church, “Our national leaders are sending U.S. soldiers on a task that is from God.” Are we fighting a holy war?

PALIN: You know, I don’t know if that was my exact quote.

GIBSON: Exact words.

PALIN: But the reference there is a repeat of Abraham Lincoln’s words when he said — first, he suggested never presume to know what God’s will is, and I would never presume to know God’s will or to speak God’s words.

But what Abraham Lincoln had said, and that’s a repeat in my comments, was let us not pray that God is on our side in a war or any other time, but let us pray that we are on God’s side.

That’s what that comment was all about, Charlie.

GIBSON: I take your point about Lincoln’s words, but you went on and said, “There is a plan and it is God’s plan.”

I think she's telling the truth that that comment was somewhat borrowed from Lincoln's famous quote.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I think she's telling the truth that that comment was somewhat borrowed from Lincoln's famous quote.

Gibson twisted her words to the breaking point.

 

[turbo]

Gibson twisted her words to the breaking point.

Gibson did not twist her words. When you watch her video in context, she was claiming in no uncertain terms that God had set this task (Iraq war) for our soldiers. In the same speech, she said that God wanted a natural gas pipeline to be built, too. She indeed claims to know the will of God, despite her protestations, and the evidence is in her public speeches. I didn't hear her quoting Lincoln in this speech.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Gibson did not twist her words.

Palin's words.

That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.

Gibson's twist.

I take your point about Lincoln’s words, but you went on and said, “There is a plan and it is God’s plan.

Lincoln's words.

Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right.

 

[BobG]

I also have a problem with Gibson's question about "The Bush Doctrine". He definitely did have to spell out exactly what he meant because the Bush Doctrine has meant several things over the years:
Death of the Bush Doctrine

THE Bush Doctrine - born on Sept. 20, 2001, when President Bush bluntly warned the sponsors of violent jihad: "You are either with us, or you are with the terrorists" - is dead. Its demise was announced by Condoleezza Rice last Friday.

The Bush-Clinton-Obama Doctrine

Or, as President Bush has put it in enunciating what has come to be known as the Bush Doctrine: "For decades, free nations tolerated oppression in the Middle East for the sake of stability. In practice, this approach brought little stability and much oppression, so I have changed this policy." Or, as he put it again, "Some who call themselves realists question whether the spread of democracy in the Middle East should be any concern of ours. But the realists in this case have lost contact with a fundamental reality: America has always been less secure when freedom is in retreat; America is always more secure when freedom is on the march."

Gibson still mistated the Bush Doctrine of Fall 2002 unless you believe there was good evidence that Iraq had WMD. His definition fell far short of what the Bush administration actually did.

 

[turbo]

Palin's words.


Gibson's twist.


Lincoln's words.

Watch the video. She says that our national leaders are sending our troops to fight in Iraq and that it is God's plan. She can't deny she said that, and unless she was lying, she presumes to know what God intends. That's nothing short of scary, and no amount of "Lincoln said it" spin is going to make it go away. McCain's people prepped her with this excuse, however thin, and it does not hold up when you watch her earlier speech.

How does she know that God wants a natural-gas pipeline built? If Gibson hammered her on that, would she have claimed that Lincoln said the same thing? Let's be realistic. I have two evangelical cousins about my age who believe in end-times preaching, and whenever ANYTHING happens (someone dies, or their house burns flat, or they get a promotion, or their child is diagnosed with cancer, etc, etc) they always see it as God's will. Always. These people are creepy - causality, determinism, and rational thought disappear in the face of their blind faith.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

If you can't follow the logic, then you are probably a Democrat.

 

[LowlyPion]

I think she's telling the truth that that comment was somewhat borrowed from Lincoln's famous quote.

Come on. Lincoln's quote was said within the context of a Civil War. His was a mission that required that if victorious the South would need reassimilation. To claim that the North's cause was more just would have been hubris, especially within that context, and my reading of Lincoln suggests to me that he was generally pragmatic about the war and its prosecution, and its ultimate conclusion.

Palin's comment looks like thoughtless hubris insofar as I am fairly certain that she actually believes that God is on her side in some way against the interest of others that do not believe in the Pentecostal vision. Her God apparently plays favorites, and she would count herself among them and the Muslims not. She sounds to me like she thinks the war in Iraq is a just war - even though we came to the battle through cynical deception and misrepresentation by the current administration.

Frankly I think that reveals an egocentric perspective on her part without any glimmer of recognition that Muslims may have a valid point about US involvement in their affairs. And that as misguided as Osama Bin Laden may have been in his tactics, no matter how cowardly his method, we have behaved badly with our policies there.

 

[quadraphonics]

Twisting of words was hardly necessary: I'm more alarmed by the picture of electorate/executive interaction implicit in Palin's comments than any of the stuff about God or Lincoln. "Pray that there is a plan?" No, in a democracy, we have much more direct ways of ensuring that war planning gets done properly. For example, we can decline to vote for people that leave any doubt as to whether they will plan ahead before going to war. We can also directly demand to know what the plan is, who made it, and why it wasn't done differently. And we can pressure Congress to refuse to go along with said plans if we don't like them. When you get to the point of having to pray that a plan even exists in the first place, you're in serious trouble.

 

[turbo]

If you can't follow the logic, then you are probably a Democrat.

I am an independent and am far more fiscally conservative and far more protective of individual rights and far more conservative with regard to foreign affairs than the Republicans currently in power. If you want to use insults (stupid=Democrat) to further your discourse, you picked the wrong guy. Show me where in the video that I linked that Sarah Palin did NOT claim to know God's will.

The world is not black-and-white Jimmy, and though many Republican and Democratic candidates have enjoyed my support in the past, the current crop of neo-con-serving Republicans currently controlling our foreign affairs and economic policy deserve to be swept out of power. If you can't follow that logic...

 

[BobG]

Twisting of words was hardly necessary: I'm more alarmed by the picture of electorate/executive interaction implicit in Palin's comments than any of the stuff about God or Lincoln. "Pray that there is a plan?" No, in a democracy, we have much more direct ways of ensuring that war planning gets done properly. For example, we can decline to vote for people that leave any doubt as to whether they will plan ahead before going to war. We can also directly demand to know what the plan is, who made it, and why it wasn't done differently. And we can pressure Congress to refuse to go along with said plans if we don't like them. When you get to the point of having to pray that a plan even exists in the first place, you're in serious trouble.

When you get to the point of having to pray that there actually is a Bush Doctrine? Have you been out of the country for several years? Congress stand up to Bush? Even with public opinion polls showing that most of the country opposed invading Iraq without UN approval, Congress folded - Democrats included. They gave him a blank check while mumbling about how they hoped he didn't abuse it.

Edit: Completely irrelevant to the argument about Palin's comment, by the way, but I couldn't help myself.