Space Stuff and Launch Info

[mfb]

That song is about the helicopter gunships used in the Vietnam war.

The song is about growing up and getting older and has nothing to do with Vietnam, American troops used the existing song after it became popular.

A different Dawn - A spaceplane breaks barriers, reaching incredible heights and speeds
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/oth...ing-incredible-heights-and-speeds/ar-AA1pvkxu

Having a flying vehicle after spending just $10 million is incredible.

Meanwhile NASA will spend $2.7 billion on scaffolding on wheels, i.e. the mobile launch tower for SLS Block 1B.
For comparison, the whole Starship HLS contract is $2.9 billion for developing a new rocket, launching it repeatedly and landing it on the Moon twice, with and without crew.

SpaceX Starlink will provide emergency services access for mobile phones for people in distress for free.

This applies worldwide, subject to approval by country governments.

Tweet
This will close all gaps in emergency cell phone coverage, as long as you have a view of the sky (and government approval).

 

[Tom.G]

I'm assuming that the "Puff the Magic Dragon" reference is to the song by that name.

That song is about the helicopter gunships used in the Vietnam war.

The song is about growing up and getting older and has nothing to do with Vietnam, American troops used the existing song after it became popular.

Thanks for the clarification @mfb.

I first heard the song a few years after the minigun developement. The lyrics so well described the gunships and their usage that I was surprised the song was even written!

Guess I'll just chalk it up to parallel evolution. (or something)

 

[Astronuc]

The song is about growing up and getting older and has nothing to do with Vietnam, American troops used the existing song after it became popular.

Thanks for the clarification @mfb.

Indeed. The song was written by Peter Yarrow (in or before 1962) from a poem by Leonard Lipton (Lipton wrote a poem about a dragon in 1959) and sung by the trio Peter, Paul and Mary. It was recorded in 1962 and released January 1963. I remember the song since my parents were big fans of Peter, Paul and Mary, and I probably heard it in 1963.
Lipton cited in the article linked by mfb.

The AC-47 (modified C-47) aircraft started production in 1963 with first flight in 1964 and was deployed at the end of 1964. "Puff" was the call sign of one of the aircraft.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_AC-47_Spooky

 

[mfb]

The helium leak has been fixed but bad weather in a possible recovery area shifts the launch of Polaris Dawn by at least two more days.

 

[Filip Larsen]

That song is about the helicopter gunships used in the Vietnam war.

As I understand from Wikipedia the gunship was nicknamed after the song, not the other way around. Understandably, people who are familiar with the gunship may have unpleasant associations with that song title, but I doubt Musk who originally named the capsule "Magic Dragon" includes himself in that group. Rather he seem to have gone for the songs (speculative) association with drug use.

Strangely when I replied to Tom's post (just after browsing to the thread) there was no other replies until I pressed post, then several hours old showed up. Not sure what happened there.

 

[Borg]

And here I figured it was about smoking pot.

 

[Astronuc]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nasa-more-disappointing-news-stranded-183029020.html
Time magazines expose on the delay in returning 2 astronauts from ISS to earth.

NASA astronauts, Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams, won’t be coming home [from the ISS] anytime soon. During a press conference at the Kennedy Space Center on Saturday, Aug. 24, NASA administrator Bill Nelson announced that the space agency was giving up on the idea of bringing Wilmore and Williams home aboard their balky Boeing Starliner spacecraft—which has been experiencing thruster problems since its launch on June 5. Instead, the Starliner will be flown home uncrewed, and Wilmore and Williams will hitch a ride back to Earth aboard a SpaceX Crew Dragon spacecraft, which will launch to the ISS in September for a five-month station stay, returning in February. This extends what was supposed to be an eight-day ISS rotation for Wilmore and Williams to a whopping eight months.

“NASA has worked very hard with Boeing to reach this decision,” Nelson said. “The decision is a result of a commitment to safety.”

The ruling rested on what NASA calls a flight readiness review (FRR). As agency brass explained at an Aug. 14 news conference, FRR’s are typically held before launch, when officials gather for a final go or no-go on the planned mission.

“We bring in representatives from all of the related centers, the technical authorities, the NASA engineering, and safety center flight operations,” explained Ken Bowersox, a former astronaut and an associate administrator for NASA’s space operations mission directorate. “We listen to the status of the mission, go through some special topics, and then we poll everybody at the end on whether or not they think we're ready to undertake the mission.”

NASA administrator describes call with Boeing CEO regarding stranded astronauts
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/video/nasa-administrator-describes-call-boeing-180915676.html

 

[mfb]

A Falcon 9 booster tipped over when landing on a drone ship. The first landing failure after 267 successes in a row. In some sense it was the opposite to last month where the landing was successful but the main mission was not. This launch delivered the payload to the right orbit but the landing failed.

This was the 23rd flight of the booster, a new record. It previously launched Inspiration4 and also the first Axiom mission to the ISS.

Here at 14:15 stream time

News

This will likely delay Falcon 9 launches, although the delay might just be days, or even non-existent for important missions. They can always fly without landing hardware if needed.

 

[berkeman]

A Falcon 9 booster tipped over when landing on a drone ship.

So far the FAA is calling it a crash landing that led to the tipover:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/spacex-falcon-9-grounded-faa-crash-landing/

The Federal Aviation Administration has grounded SpaceX's Falcon 9 rockets pending an investigation to determine what caused a first-stage booster to crash onto a landing barge early Wednesday after helping launch another batch of Starlink internet satellites.

 

[.Scott]

One statement by the FAA is published in this FAA incident list.
It states:

The FAA is aware an anomaly occurred during the SpaceX Starlink Group 8-6 mission that launched from Cape Canaveral Space Force Station in Florida on Aug. 28.

The incident involved the failure of the Falcon 9 booster rocket while landing on a droneship at sea. No public injuries or public property damage have been reported. The FAA is requiring an investigation.

This was the 23rd landing of booster B1062 and the mode of landing requires that the landing legs absorb significant momentum (unlike the Starship plans). So, of course, the first thought is the landing gear failed out of simple fatigue.

But the FAA is very widely quoted as stating that they wanted to "identify corrective actions to avoid it from happening again". It is certainly important to know for sure what caused the failure and how it did it. At a minimum, it would indicate how other landing legs should be inspected and/or replaced. In the most valuable case, it might show that the root cause was in an entirely different system - one that could fail earlier in the mission.

But in this case, presuming that the FAA has an interest in "avoiding it from happening again" is premature. If the failure is limited to the landing leg, SpaceX may, for reasons of economy, want to prevent it from reoccurring, but the FAA should be satisfied that it is a contained failure.

 

[nsaspook]

 

[.Scott]

On the subject of the Starliner crew: I have to wonder if NASA had a bit of tunnel vision on this safety matter. The worse-case-scenario was not the loss of one or two crew members adrift in orbit. It is the failure of Starliner to properly distance itself from the ISS - and ultimately collide with it. The current plan is for Boeing to reprogram Starliner systems to perform this separation autonomously - presumably with procedural contingencies coded up to adapt to likely RCS thruster failures.

If I was the software engineer expected to put this package together, I would want to know what my starting point was. Are there already software simulators that can be readily modified to simulate different RCS thruster failure combinations? If not, this would be safety-critical software that needs to be put in place before the Starliner "fix" can be released. And, under appropriate software safety rules, this sort of project is generally months-long.

Will Boeing show the same dedication to safety-critical software development that they have demonstrated on their 737 MAX MCAS system development ?

 

[Tom.G]

Will Boeing show the same dedication to safety-critical software development that they have demonstrated on their 737 MAX MCAS system development ?

If you want to know where sombody is going, check the direction of their tracks in the snow.

 

[mfb]

Took just one day: The FAA approved the return to flight for Falcon 9. No surprise here. The FAA is concerned about a risk to the public, a risk to the drone ship is up to SpaceX.

The SpaceX Falcon 9 vehicle may return to flight operations while the overall investigation of the anomaly during the Starlink Group 8-6 mission remains open, provided all other license requirements are met. SpaceX made the return to flight request on Aug. 29 and the FAA gave approval on Aug. 30.

The weather is still bad, no new date for Polaris Dawn yet.

Edit: Two Starlink launches have flown now.

NASA has selected Nick Hague to fly on Crew-9 (with Aleksandr Gorbunov). Gorbunov had to stay on the crew to satisfy the seat swap agreement with Russia, but who would stay from NASA wasn't so clear. Zena Cardman as commander would have been the natural choice, but then neither crew member would have previous spaceflight experience. That works - Inspiration4 had an all-rookie crew with less training - but it's not ideal.
Cardman and Wilson might be flying on Crew-11 next summer.

 

[jrmichler]

Boeing executives reaction to the decision to bring back the Starliner empty, and have SpaceX bring back the astronauts, was to descend into yelling: https://nypost.com/2024/08/30/us-ne...ome-stranded-astronauts-in-starliner-sources/. A quote from that article:

Days after NASA announced that two astronauts had been stranded on the International Space Station, the space agency had a series of contentious meetings with Boeing to determine how to bring them back to Earth, sources at both Boeing and NASA told The Post.

The meetings — attended by senior-level employees on both sides — were tense, and often descended into yelling and arguments, sources said.

“Boeing was convinced that the Starliner was in good enough condition to bring the astronauts home, and NASA disagreed. Strongly disagreed.

“The thinking around here was that Boeing was being wildly irresponsible.”

The Boeing track record on the Starliner program is consistent with a big company that has fallen into complacency. Complacency caused General Motors to file bankruptcy in 2009, General Electric to dramatically shrink, IBM to lay off 60,000 people in 1993, Chrysler to file bankruptcy in 2009, and forced me to find a new job in 2000. Complacency starts with the head person in charge, infects the entire organization, and takes years to cure.

 

[mfb]

The Starliner spacecraft has started to emit strange noises
Is it haunted?
Here is the sound
It's scheduled to undock September 6.

The second flight of Vulcan is scheduled for September 16. It was supposed to fly Dream Chaser but that spacecraft needs more time. ULA has decided to fly an empty rocket (some dummy mass) - it needs a second flight to get certified for national security launches as soon as possible or ULA will lose more launches to SpaceX.

 

[berkeman]

Here is the sound

Sounds like there's a stowaway in the craft banging with a wrench to get help...

 

[Vanadium 50]

descend into yelling:

You've got to love the Post. (Best headline ever: Headless body in topless bar)

There is no way to make Starliner's track record look good.

I find the noises very disturbing.

 

[Tom.G]

Here is an update from:
https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/...an-emitting-strange-sonar-noises-on-saturday/

Sept. 2 Update: NASA issued the following explanation on Monday for the strange noises: "A pulsing sound from a speaker in Boeing’s Starliner spacecraft heard by NASA astronaut Butch Wilmore aboard the International Space Station has stopped. The feedback from the speaker was the result of an audio configuration between the space station and Starliner. The space station audio system is complex, allowing multiple spacecraft and modules to be interconnected, and it is common to experience noise and feedback."

Cheers,
Tom

 

[gleem]

The Polaris Dawn launch is now scheduled for this Friday, Sept. 6, in a four-hour window starting at 3:33 a.m. EDT.

 

[mfb]

1 day and 2 hours until Polaris Dawn
Edit: Delayed again to Monday

The last original Vega rocket flew a few hours ago. It started with 14 successful launches and was a great example that you can design rockets that don't need to fail before becoming reliable - but the failures of the 15th and 17th launch ruined that. It retires with a 20/22 track record. Its upgrade Vega-C will stay flying (1 success, 1 failure so far).

Blue Origin is in a race against the clock. The first flight of New Glenn is planned to launch EscaPADE, two smaller satellites, to Mars. The nominal launch date is October 13. The window extends a bit beyond that - they can probably launch a week earlier, and maybe even towards the end of October - but there isn't much room for delays.
Most rockets take months from integration to their first launch. SLS had its first wet dress rehearsal attempt 9 months before launch. ULA had Vulcan hardware on the launch pad 10 months before launch. Ariane 6 performed a static fire test 8 months before launch. Starship performed static fire tests and wet dress rehearsals for months before the first flight. Falcon Heavy flew 6 weeks after arriving at launch pad - but its components were well-known from Falcon 9.
Blue Origin is still stacking the hardware for the first rocket. Launching that in 5 weeks would be an unprecedented pace for a new rocket. Tweets like this aren't exactly helping. The time until the launch is sufficient to install engines?

 

[mfb]

Watch Starliner undock (starting in 2 hours):



Some earlier coverage here:



It's planned to land in southern New Mexico, coming from Mexico, visibility from the US will likely be minimal to non-existent.

 

[mfb]

Starliner undocking in 10 minutes.

NASA Stands Down from October Launch for ESCAPADE to Mars
The spacecraft would need to be fueled now for an October launch, but removing that fuel again if the launch is delayed would be awkward. NASA looked at the chance of New Glenn making it for October and concluded that it's too unlikely to happen. Not surprising.
Another possible launch window opens in early 2025, with a different (slower) path to Mars.

 

[.Scott]

At 18:10, the Starliner separated 6 minutes ago and the first ten of the twelve sets of thruster burns has been uneventful. Starliner is more than 150 meters away from the station.
A minute later, all break out burns were completed successfully and had exited the 200M keep out sphere.
At 18:13, it was reported that Starliner was in an orbit that would take its closest approach to the station further and further on each orbit. So it has accomplished its departure objective.

 

[berkeman]

What is this view showing?

 

[.Scott]

It shows the Starliner outside the 200M keep-out sphere. I believe the gray arrow is showing its velocity relative to the station. The yellow arrow is likely to be the direction of orbital motion.
On top-right is the Starliner elevation trajectory relative to the space station.

 

[mfb]

The sphere should be the keep-out sphere with a radius of 200 meters. Every spacecraft orbit needs to stay outside that sphere unless the spacecraft is moving very slow compared to the ISS and it has been verified that everything is working properly.

Edit: Yes, the foreground image is Starliner, looking into the service module.

 

[berkeman]

Ah, now the view makes more sense as Starliner has rotated so I can see it in the image. And I guess the sphere is the keep-out sphere...

 

[.Scott]

They just announced that Starliner has exited the exit approach ellipsoid and is basically on its own. It can maneuver without coordination with NASA.

 

[mfb]

Landed without issues on the way down.