The island is big and wooded in parts, How do they survive?

[wolram]

The possibility of getting a working engine out of four possibly destroyed engines is near slim. The biggest problem is the high humidity and corrosive nature of the air in and surrounding the island. The seals should all be good, the problem is the weakened engine block and the large possibility of seized bearings.

If it were possible to get good parts off of a tear down of all four to make a working engine (it is vary easy to tear an engine down, I need a socket set, hammer, rubber mallet, and some high power solvent). The next big problem would be putting it back together, any sleave compression bearings would most likely need to be needed to be replaced, and a torque wrench is also an absolute necessity (if the gaskets and compression bearings aren't torqued to specs or evenly it whole thing will be large bomb worst case, completely destroyed best case when it was fired up).

Now if we manage to find all of the needed stuff for a teardown/rebuild the last major hurdle would be getting a good lubricant for the engine (something with a good thermal breakdown resistance and a medium viscosity at cold and operating temps of the engine. Also if we were to use alcohol for the fuel it would need to be pure (295 + prof) and the timings and carb jets would need to be changed.

There might also be a problem with running the engine at low altitude, they were built for high altitude moving through cold air, so the heavy warm air of the jungle floor might burn up the engine.

I totally agree, the idea of resurrecting one of these engines is slim to none
but perhaps we could use the parts for other things. sorry Brewy, Danger.

 

[hypatia]

arildno, you could be in charge of moral, keeping everyone in good spirts. Of course you would half to do some chores too.

My extended arm is almost exactly 2 ft..if I need more then that to measure for cods piece

And I have found some reeds for making thaching for the roof! arildno can tie bundles{i'll show him how}.
We must take note which way the storms come from, and build to with stand the blunt force.

 

[Moonbear]

Never fear Wolram, as soon as hypatia gets the right barks and stuff for me to extract the tannins, we'll be getting some of these pelts from the hunting expeditions tanned to leather. No need to remove the fur from all of them. The ones we use for clothing, we should leave the fur on and turn the fur to the inside so they are warm and toasty. As Danger suggested, we'll make some needles from bones, and we can use leather strips from the smaller hides to sew the clothing together. I can cut the hides while I'm watching the soup simmering, and since we don't need to be fancy, anyone who has a break from their other chores can pitch in with sewing the pieces together (he/she who doesn't help gets clothed last). If we get any large game, we should save those pelts as blankets.

I see no reason we need any partitions in the shelter. We might need to huddle together to stay warm at night.

hypatia, I believe hands and cubits are perfectly well-accepted measures when one does not have a ruler. (I think a cubit is a measure from either fingertips to elbow or wrist to elbow; as long as you're consistent, I'm sure either will do).

Until we locate those contraceptives Danger keeps asking for, Arildno is the designated chaperone for this party.

 

[brewnog]

brewnog..nettles, a very rich source of tannic acid! But sadly not in the tropics. I would help moonbear gather insect gauls, and dark barks which we would mix with wood ash.

Tannic acid also binds with proteins in alcohol, and can be used to create a pure product.

Sweet, I knew you'd come in handy!

I totally agree, the idea of resurrecting one of these engines is slim to none
but perhaps we could use the parts for other things. sorry Brewy, Danger.

No worries, I personally had no plans for resurrecting the engines. I wanted the engine casings to make canoes out of, aluminium panels to beat some pots, pans, and water containers from, and metal fuel/hydraulic lines for our still. But agreed, it's not a priority just yet.

Do we have a viable plan for clean water yet? I'd really like to have it all boiled before use. I don't believe a solar still provides anywhere near enough water for this many people to drink, let alone cook and wash with. Extracting water from plants or fish is useful for emergencies, but again, won't be enough to support us properly. The problem is that boiling takes a lot of time, and also needs fuel! Anyone reckon they'd like to try filtering it instead? I doubt we'll be able to get a decent method of desalination in place any time soon.

 

[wolram]

Good news and bad news from hypatia and moonbear
No partitions are needed in our house ,that will save Astro a lot of work, and
we all get to huddle, i think huddling will we be good for moral.
I have to learn to sew, i have tried before but the repair never looks right
and i end up with multiple stab wounds please moonbear take pity.

Well the first spots of rain now what?

 

[wolram]

No worries, I personally had no plans for resurrecting the engines. I wanted the engine casings to make canoes out of, aluminium panels to beat some pots, pans, and water containers from, and metal fuel/hydraulic lines for our still. But agreed, it's not a priority just yet.

Do we have a viable plan for clean water yet? I'd really like to have it all boiled before use. I don't believe a solar still provides anywhere near enough water for this many people to drink, let alone cook and wash with. Extracting water from plants or fish is useful for emergencies, but again, won't be enough to support us properly. The problem is that boiling takes a lot of time, and also needs fuel! Anyone reckon they'd like to try filtering it instead? I doubt we'll be able to get a decent method of desalination in place any time soon.[/QUOTE]

Our water source is not to far away from Astros building site, we could try
to divert the stream," the water is pure at source", and collecting rain water
is worth a thought, but storage is a problem.

 

[Smurf]

what exactly is moonbear planning on sewing with?

 

[wolram]

arildno, you could be in charge of moral, keeping everyone in good spirts. Of course you would half to do some chores too.

That sounds fair to me.

 

[wolram]

what exactly is moonbear planning on sewing with?

We have needles, and i think she has a cunning plan for thread.

 

[hypatia]

Time to hunker down in the tempory shelter, we've gathered enough firewood to keep warm for at least 12 hours, its covered and dry. We will need people awake durring the night to watch the fire.

 

[Astronuc]

We might need to huddle together to stay warm at night.

Closer to the equator, where most of the islands lie, steadily blowing trade winds allow for relatively constant temperatures throughout the year of 21-27°C (70-81°F).

I'll sleep outside - I generate way to much heat due to a relatively high metabolic rate - especially when spending days doing heavy labor.

I prefer sleeping in air temeprature of about 55-60° (12-15°C).

Wolram, any idea of the lattitude and longtitude, where the ship went down?
If not, we can measure the angles of the sun at midday (we are approximately 3 weeks from summer solstice in N. Hemi) and Antares at midnight.

 

[Moonbear]

what exactly is moonbear planning on sewing with?

As Wolram said, there were needles in our salvaged supplies, though they may not be suitable for this purpose. Danger recommended we make some from bones. Though, since all I'm sewing is leather, I can probably just punch holes and feed thinner leather strips through the holes. We have animal skins and a method of tanning the hides.

Though, if anyone runs into sheep or cotton plants, we can always make real thread.

I believe the early recommendation from someone was to save the good metal needles and threads from the clothing on our back for sewing up wounds if we absolutely must (we'll really need that alcohol brewnog is brewing if we have to attempt any form of surgery, both as an antiseptic and as an anesthetic, and we can dip instruments into the alcohol and flame them to sterilize).

Wolram, as long as you aren't sitting idly by the fire, you won't be recruited for sewing. Though, this is hardly the sort of sewing where the ladies sit around fussing over misplaced stitches. Punch a row of holes where the seam is supposed to be and lace a leather strip through it. Just remember, don't make knots on the flies of the men's britches.

 

[Moonbear]

Time to hunker down in the tempory shelter, we've gathered enough firewood to keep warm for at least 12 hours, its covered and dry. We will need people awake durring the night to watch the fire.

Let's grab some of those thicker looking vines over there and lash down the roof in case we get any high winds with this storm. Are we on high enough ground if it floods? If not, where do we move to? We should also plan for what to do if the fire is quenched by the coming rain. I think the night watch should be skilled with the weaponry we have. We don't know how vulnerable we'll be to nocturnal predators without a fire to keep them away from camp. Oh, and let's get some of these pans out to collect rainwater.

 

[Danger]

Welcome aboard, Silver Fox!
You obviously have a lot more experience with the engines than I do, but I should stress a couple of points just so you don't think that I'm totally nuts. There is no way in the world that I would ever consider making one of them airworthy. Note that I suggested it as an emergency motor for a possible boat, to be used sparingly. As for a weakened block, those things were pretty damned strong to start with. Weaker would still probably be acceptable. The alcohol fuel at low altitudes might not be that much of a problem since I've already scarfed the superchargers for use as air pumps in camp. Tweaking a carb is something that Hypatia or I can do in our sleep, unless the thing needs to be rejetted. (That would let me out, but she can probably do it.) You don't have that much compression to worry about. The one thing that totally weirds me out, maybe because I've never dealt with a radial engine, is your reference to 'compression bearings'. That is a totally new phrase to me. The only thing that I can possibly think of within my own experience that you might be talking about is a 'rod bearing'. If that's what you mean, then I believe that there are ways around that as long as you're willing to settle for severely limited performance.
Another thing that puzzles me, though, is your contention that the seals will be okay. The seals in a car engine are pretty much shot after sitting 10 years, and they generally aren't subject to 'jungle rot'. If you can elaborate upon this subject, I would much appreciate it.
Arildno, if you hadn't mentioned being gay in the other thread, I'd be having some real trouble trying to figure out what the hell your posts here were about. As it is, huddling for warmth is okay, but don't try too hard to keep me away from the women.
Moonbear, I can sew, believe it or not. It's usually restricted to embroidering disgusting things on jackets, but I can put a sleeve back on if necessary. And I made my own wallet, which is starting to wear out now after 20 years. The most that I ever got out of a store-bought one was 3 1/2 years.
I'm going to post this now, because I don't want to lose it while I go back and check over some stuff. Back in a bit.

 

[Danger]

Do we have a viable plan for clean water yet?

Aren't you the one who said that there was a reliable source of clean water 8 hours away?

As for some of the other stuff...
I'm nocturnal and photophobic, so I'll take night/early morning sentry and hunting shifts. Fire has been established ever since we landed, because if you recall when I lit the last goddamn cigarette I had to my name I fired up a campfire at the same time. I've been keeping and cloning embers ever since. There are currently more than a dozen small fire pits going, and 3 of them are under deep cover in case of bad weather. I also still have my lighter, and there are flares and the aforementioned .50 cartidges if necessary. The phosphorous in the base compound of the tracer rounds can set a rock on fire if we have to. Not to mention the hydraulic fluid and crankcase oil that we can use to aid ignition until we get enough fish oil gathered.
By the way, that cargo net in the B-29 should be good for catching fish more than about 15cm long.
Hypatia, I'd be mighty grateful if you can find a nicotine source really soon.
Has anyone else noticed a distressingly disparate male/female ratio here? (Down, Arildno...) Wooley, give your daughter a call, will you?

 

[hypatia]

Danger the problem with plant alkaloids is they can go from midly pleasent, {tobbaco} to deadly{nighshades}..as I fall asleep, I wonder if the plane battery can be refitted to a alkaloid. Wave action, tubines..power..radios, codspieces..ZZzzzz :zzz:

 

[arildno]

arildno, you could be in charge of moral, giving everyone good squirts. Of course you would have to do some chores too.

That's no problem.

 

[brewnog]

Aren't you the one who said that there was a reliable source of clean water 8 hours away?

Ha, that was indeed wolram. After 1600-odd posts, he hasn't quite got the hang of the quote feature yet!

By the way, that cargo net in the B-29 should be good for catching fish more than about 15cm long.

Ooh goody. I was beginning to think I was going to have to make a net!

I'll start making some arrows, I'm not a bad fletcher. Keep an eye out for Ash, Elm or Willow saplings (or anything similar). I'll probably use bone for the heads, although fire-hardening would be easier, I guess it depends if we're going to be able to re-use our arrows. I'll pluck Moonbear's parrot for some feathers, split them down the middle, and bind them onto the shaft with moistened sinew from the guys who didn't survive the shipwreck.

 

[Astronuc]

I'll start making some arrows, I'm not a bad fletcher. Keep an eye out for Ash, Elm or Willow saplings (or anything similar).

Or similar I think. My guess is the we are somewhere (as yet to be determined) between 20N and 20S, latitude - which mean tropical.

I could be wrong, but Ash, Elm and Willow are more deciduous trees of the temperature latitudes - 30N and north, 30S and south.

 

[dduardo]

1. Find the biggest stick and eliminate biggest male threats
2. Declare self supreme ruler
3. Establish water sources and waste areas
4. Build shelters out of materials found on island
5. Round up women and put them in my shelter
6. Start Fire
7. Hunt for food, have women cook and feast
8. Mate
9. Repeat 7 and 8 until found

 

[Moonbear]

1. Find the biggest stick and eliminate biggest male threats
2. Declare self supreme ruler
3. Establish water sources and waste areas
4. Build shelters out of materials found on island
5. Round up women and put them in my shelter
6. Start Fire
7. Hunt for food, have women cook and feast
8. Mate
9. Repeat 7 and 8 until found

Who votes that if food supplies run low, we eat dduardo first?

 

[wolram]

Sorry all attempts to upload map fail, i have asked Kia for help.

 

[wolram]

Aren't you the one who said that there was a reliable source of clean water 8 hours away?

See i can do it.

But we do not know were Astro elected to build our home, and we can not
waste time and energy carrying water day in day out.

 

[wolram]

1. Find the biggest stick and eliminate biggest male threats
2. Declare self supreme ruler
3. Establish water sources and waste areas
4. Build shelters out of materials found on island
5. Round up women and put them in my shelter
6. Start Fire
7. Hunt for food, have women cook and feast
8. Mate
9. Repeat 7 and 8 until found

Big eyes small tummy.

 

[wolram]

By Astronuc Or similar I think. My guess is the we are somewhere (as yet to be determined) between 20N and 20S, latitude - which mean tropical.

That is good enough for now.

 

[Astronuc]

See i can do it.

But we do not know were Astro elected to build our home, . . . .

Wherever the 'group' decides! I still haven't started the big house.

 

[Moonbear]

Wherever the 'group' decides! I still haven't started the big house.

Well, I've been watching the boars as they head for the watering hole, and it seems they're all coming in from the North side, so I suggest we build over on the South side.

 

[Argentum Vulpes]

Sorry everyone for not helping much, I was staring the plane wreckage and yeha...

Note that I suggested it as an emergency motor for a possible boat, to be used sparingly.

In that function it should have a higher probability of being usable. I think someone suggested using it as a power source for a milling machine and or generator. In both of those conditions the engine would need to be close to 100%.

Another thing that puzzles me, though, is your contention that the seals will be okay. The seals in a car engine are pretty much shot after sitting 10 years, and they generally aren't subject to 'jungle rot'.

If I remember right all of the gaskets on the engine will be the cork type. So in this case the high humidity of the jungle should of kept them viable, if not then a good thick piece of tanned leather should work for a low power application.

I think we might be able to also set up an engine as a pump for water. However if it is a four stroke it will be very difficult or maybe imposable with what we have here. Well I can check on that when we tear them down.

As for the hunting I'll also be working on a bow, and start to help with the arrows. I've done a lot of hunting (read camping trip with weapons ), and for fun I also do a lot of line shooting (both bow, riffle and pistole).

 

[wolram]

By AV I think we might be able to also set up an engine as a pump for water. However if it is a four stroke it will be very difficult or maybe imposable with what we have here. Well I can check on that when we tear them down.

I have not encountered an engine yet that is totaly beyond use, the mains may be gone, the bores scored, or what ever, as long as it can suck squeze bang,
and have a good oil supply, we can get some use out of it.
If the mains are shot we could coat them with lead copper alloy, and grind them
in with a fine abrasive. pumice would be ok.

 

[Danger]

If I remember right all of the gaskets on the engine will be the cork type. So in this case the high humidity of the jungle should of kept them viable, if not then a good thick piece of tanned leather should work for a low power application.

Okay, gaskets are a different matter. I was referring to the main seals on the crankshafts. As far as I know, they're usually neoprene or maybe even natural rubber in something that old. I still don't know what the hell a 'compression bearing' is, but it was my thought to make replacement rod and main bearings out of leather if the original babbitt ones are shot. (Hey, wait a sec... do you mean a thrust bearing? That would be a whole 'nother problem.)

I think we might be able to also set up an engine as a pump for water. However if it is a four stroke it will be very difficult or maybe imposable with what we have here. Well I can check on that when we tear them down.

That's a good thought, but we can still do it with the windmills as well. Also, if the fresh water supply that Wooley mentioned includes a waterfall, we can tap off what we want at the top and let gravity take it where we want it, as well as build a really nice paddle wheel power supply.

As for the hunting I'll also be working on a bow, and start to help with the arrows. I've done a lot of hunting (read camping trip with weapons ), and for fun I also do a lot of line shooting (both bow, riffle and pistole).

Awesome, mate! Welcome to the Nasty Boys squad. I've got my first trap set up, but haven't armed it until I can warn everyone. All six of the crossbows that I built from springs and steel from the wreckage are now firmly mounted, 3 per side, beside the boar's path to the water. A trip wire right in the middle will fire all at once across the path. There are logs behind them on both sides, so the quarrels made from the B-29 control rods can be recovered after use. Any or all of the crossbows can be dismounted for hand-held use. I'm not going to bother building any small-animal traps until I know what kind of small animals live here. Brewnog, I still need a heavy-duty net or three made out of thick vines or whatever, so you're not off the hook there. I'm going to try making a bird-trap with some of the cargo netting, as long as there's still enough left for fishing. If necessary, I can convert some of the .50's to shotgun shells.
As for dduardo, eating him might be temporarily satisfying but he probably tastes fishy. I'd prefer to electrolyze some water, inflate him with the hydrogen from it, and float him over the island as a beacon. If we plug any natural orifices with light bulbs, he shouldn't outgas for a couple of days.

 

[FredGarvin]

So what if all 4 engines have bent cranks?

 

[hypatia]

You can call me a bent crank...{hands on hips,taps foot} but we still need toilets dug!
Would someone please, fashion a shovel from that bit of metal?

 

[FredGarvin]

I'm union. I'm on break.

 

[hypatia]

omg I just read dangers post...we need to get him meds ..ASAP

 

[Astronuc]

If necessary, I can convert some of the .50's to shotgun shells.

Or we can make some your Portuguese friend's mother's biscuits if you can remember the recipe. That was a beaut, mate!