Will Israel's Strikes Escalate to Full-Scale War?

[Skyhunter]

That's a lovely sounding ideal. But an entirely ridiculous standard to try to hold a government to... and it's not even reasonable to hold individuals to such a standard.

You expect me to hold a government other than my own accountable?

What was the term you used..."entirely ridiculous."

Why equal? In what ways is Hezbollah guilty? In what ways is Israel guilty? How did you weigh all those factors against each other to determine that they should be equally guilty?

It takes two to tango.

Why does that earn the US a portion of the blame? And why is the US's portion of the blame worth bringing up over any other particular party's portion of the blame?

Iran and Syria as well almost every other nation that has become involved should accept some culpability. I mentioned the US because I am an American. As an American I will exercise my right to criticize the actions of my government until they take those rights away. Then I will criticize LOUDER!

That one's easy -- AFAIK the bombers are generally after rocket caches and rocket launchers, not guerrillas.

The end result is that civilians are bearing the brunt of the attack and Israel is losing International support.

Don't you think this sounds suspicious?

Yes. My first thought was ban bait.

 

[Anttech]

And the lying and denying marches on, just like in the dawn of WWII. You sold out then to the nazis, you sell out today to the islamists. The difference will be in the ending: the americans freed you of the nazis, they'll let you rot under islam. Well deserved ending.

Are you accusing me of lying? Would you like to point out where I was lying, or will you retract that statement?

 

[clj4]

No You speak in rhetoric, with no examples. You don't back up any of your statements, and seem to try and pass them up as some sort of universal Fact (My children wil be Muslims). To "put a mirror up" so to speak you have to at least know what it is you are putting a mirror up against. But it makes for some funny reading..

Go out in your streets, you will see the "examples".
Go ride in the trains and metros blown to pieces, mixing body parts with train parts, you will see the examples.
Need more?

 

[Anttech]

Go out in your streets, you will see the "examples".

I have just been outside, and I am fine, what's your point? I have lived in Europe all my puff, and I have lived in the Largest Cities in Europe, and I have been just fine.

Go ride in the trains and metros blown to pieces, mixing body parts with train parts, you will see the examples.
Need more?

I ride the train most day, and the metro here everyday... Honestly what are you talking about?

 

[clj4]

Are you accusing me of lying? Would you like to point out where I was lying, or will you retract that statement?

Yes, you are lying. To yourself. Because you are denying the obvious: that your world is changing around you and that your values are being overrun by your "guests". Hope that you are happy with them, report back when "Sharia" has replaced your legal system and when your church has been bought, demolished and replaced with a mosque.
Let us know how you separate body parts from train parts, body parts from cafe furniture, etc.

 

[clj4]

I have just been outside, and I am fine, what's your point? I have lived in Europe all my puff, and I have lived in the Largest Cities in Europe, and I have been just fine.
I ride the train most day, and the metro here everyday... Honestly what are you talking about?

Let us know when you learned how to separate body parts from metal parts. Maybe you need to go to school in Mumbai, London,Tel-Aviv or Madrid. Wait! If you wait long enough you can "experience" it in your home town (not that I am wishing that on you). But it will help waking you up from your apologetic state.

 

[Anttech]

At the core of Globalisation is migration, being an American you should probably be aware of that. In Europe we have quiet a Large free market, people move about quiet easy, and people come from other cultures to our lands because we have a good economy. People who believe in Islam, come here for this reason. They are not our guest, they are here to work (in the majority). Our Churches are fine thank you very much, the last one I saw get burnt down was by a devil worshipping cult in Norway (due to one of your exports, death metal music).

I am not lying, and I resent that you are asserting I am. I live in Europe, and to be honest, if YOU are a representation of the values that the USA brings to the table, then honestly, I would prefer to convert to Islam. That being said, I know that you are not.

Your rhetoric and sensationalism is really amusing, you have probably broken quiet a few Forum rules here, are you aware of the guidelines you agreed to before you stated posting?

 

[kyleb]

The apologists are the people that sold the jews...

They didn't do it alone:

As far as Zionism is concerned, the founder of Zionism and apostate, Theodor Herzl, sought to intensify hatred of the Jew in order to enhance the cause of political Zionism. Here are some of his “pearls”:

“It is essential that the sufferings of Jews. . . become worse. . . this will assist in realization of our plans. . .I have an excellent idea. . . I shall induce anti-semites to liquidate Jewish wealth. . . The anti-semites will assist us thereby in that they will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews. The anti-semites shall be our best friends”. (From his Diary, Part I, pp. 16)

Additional words from the vivid imagination of this dreamer, from p. 68 of Part I of his Diary.

So anti-Semitism, which is a deeply imbedded force in the subconscious mind of the masses, will not harm the Jews. I actually find it to be advantageous to building the Jewish character, education by the masses that will lead to assimilation. This education can only happen through suffering, and the Jews will adapt.

...

At the Nuremberg Trials of Major War Criminals, Nazi propagandist, Julius Streicher testified: “I did no more than echo what the leading Zionists had been saying”, it is clear that he had told the truth.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm

I highly recommend reading the whole article there as well as looking around the rest of the website.

 

[Anttech]

Actually I have lived in London, been to Madrid many times, and was brought up in Glasgow. I have been to Belfast on numerous occasions, but utimatly my Family is Greek. I have seen what terrorist do, CHRISTIAN terrorists, I have had a friend carved up by a UDF thug because he was wearing a Celtic football strip. You are trying to "teach or grandfather how to suck eggs" son. I have never had any problems with any Muslims I work with, I can tell you as fact they arent "taking over Europe" and "demolishing" all the churches. Yes there has been problems, with Al-qeda. But I tend not to make sweeping statements about a demographic of 1.2 Billion people. You are just going to have to accept that Islam is here to stay, if you don't and carry on the direction you are going, one day you may just turn out like that which you *hate*

 

[clj4]

At the core of Globalisation is migration, being an American you should probably be aware of that. In Europe we have quiet a Large free market, people move about quiet easy, and people come from other cultures to our lands because we have a good economy. People who believe in Islam, come here for this reason. They are not our guest, they are here to work (in the majority). Our Churches are fine thank you very much, the last one I saw get burnt down was by a devil worshipping cult in Norway (due to one of your exports, death metal music).

You are in denial. Like the europeans that sold out to the nazis before WWII in the hope that they will be left alone. There are no more jews to sell this time.
So maybe you should look at the pictures from Mumbai, London,Madrid,Tel-Aviv and...New York one more time.
Europe before WWII was very nice and quiet. Enjoy the "quiet" until the next bombing. Who knows, it might come in Bruxelles, Liege or whatever. This may shake you up and make you change your song.

I am not lying, and I resent that you are asserting I am. I live in Europe, and to be honest, if YOU are a representation of the values that the USA brings to the table, then honestly, I would prefer to convert to Islam.

Looks like you may have already done it.

 

[clj4]

They didn't do it alone:http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm

I highly recommend reading the whole article there as well as looking around the rest of the website.

Smells foul, classical arab history revisionism mixed with good old nazi propaganda. No thanks.

 

[Anttech]

LOL...

Europe before WWII was very nice and quiet. Enjoy the "quiet" until the next bombing. Who knows, it might come in Bruxelles, Liege or whatever. This may shake you up and make you change your song.

Actually just before WW2 was WW1. Were you aware of that? I wouldn't say we were "ohh so quiet" We were busy killing each other. There may or may not be a bombing in Brussels. There have already been terrorist activity in Belgium by the Vlam-Block a Neo-Nazi type outfit from Flanders (No they are NOT Muslims) who are trying to break up Belgium into Wallonia and Flanders.

 

[Anttech]

Smells foul, classical arab history revisionism. No thanks.

About True Torah Jews Against Zionism

True Torah Jews is a non-profit organization formed by a group of religious Orthodox Jews dedicated to informing the world and the American public and politicians in particular, that the idealogy of Zionism is in total opposition to the teachings of traditional Judaism.

True Torah Jews
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Donations by check or money order may be mailed to the above address. Your generous support is needed and will be greatly appreciated!

Donations can be made with a credit card through PayPal.
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/about/index.cfm

Hmmm well perhaps Arabs, as technically Israel is an Arabic state, but revisionism, care to back that up, or are you not going to bother again?

 

[Anttech]

You are in denial. Like the europeans that sold out to the nazis before WWII in the hope that they will be left alone. There are no more jews to sell this time.

Who sold who out? Please (I am asking nicely, no?) could you expand on that a bit? Which Europeans sold out, and what are you asserting by saying that?

 

[clj4]

Actually I have lived in London, been to Madrid many times, and was brought up in Glasgow. I have been to Belfast on numerous occasions, but utimatly my Family is Greek. I have seen what terrorist do, CHRISTIAN terrorists, I have had a friend carved up by a UDF thug because he was wearing a Celtic football strip. You are trying to "teach or grandfather how to suck eggs" son. I have never had any problems with any Muslims I work with, I can tell you as fact they arent "taking over Europe" and "demolishing" all the churches. Yes there has been problems, with Al-qeda. But I tend not to make sweeping statements about a demographic of 1.2 Billion people. You are just going to have to accept that Islam is here to stay, if you don't and carry on the direction you are going, one day you may just turn out like that which you *hate*

The above statement is precisely what makes you an apologist.
You hope that you will be spared but it won't happen. Report back from the next bombing, tell us how you seprated body parts from cafe furniture.

 

[clj4]

Who sold who out? Please (I am asking nicely, no?) could you expand on that a bit? Which Europeans sold out, and what are you asserting by saying that?

The people of the many european countries who either signed pacts and/or colaborated with the nazis . Do you need a history refresher? France, Belgium, Netherlands, etc.

 

[kyleb]

Smells foul, classical arab history revisionism mixed with good old nazi propaganda. No thanks.

It is an Orthodox Jewish website explaining their history, some of them being people who suffered though the horrors of WW2 themselves. Beyond that the quotes are authentic and all properly soured. Please don't turn your back on the facts here:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm

 

[clj4]

Hmmm well perhaps Arabs, as technically Israel is an Arabic state, but revisionism, care to back that up, or are you not going to bother again?

Hmm, what is your question? You can't recognise arab rehashes of nazi propaganda?

 

[Anttech]

Yes, I would like you to show me these pacts, and I would like to you start collaborating your statements with the small thing we call Historical fact.

 

[clj4]

It is an Orthodox Jewish website explaining their history, some of them being people who suffered though the horrors of WW2 themselves. Beyond that the quotes are authentic and all properly soured. Please don't turn your back on the facts here:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm

Yes, very serving to arab propaganda. Besides, your quote was by a nazi at the Nurnberg trial, Very convenient.

 

[Anttech]

Hmm, what is your question? You can't recognise arab rehashes of nazi propaganda?

I am asking you to back up your statements with some explanation (Not rhetoric) and of course some facts to back up your statements would be nice.

 

[Bystander]

(snip)What I meant was not did we cause the foundation of fundementalism but did we by our actions give them more influence than they deserve, it's impossible for a non Islamic sate or a non Muslim person to create and Islamic movement, but we can make it seem more palatable, if someone is feeling hate for a country, then someone who corrupts the faith to portray a valid justification for hate can seem more appealing. AFAIK fundementalism only really took off in the 20th century, which is exactly when we and I mean England and others started looking towards the middle East as a means of exploitation in oil(please understand I am not drawing modern parallels here, I don't want to get into a "is gulf war II all about oil" debate, it's not relevant) I hope that clarifies my post.

India, John Keay, gives a good picture of "moderate" Islam vs. "fundamentalist" Islam during the Mogul, Moghul, Muhgal, era; you might also want to look into the "Old Man in the Mountain" and his (their) "hashshashin, hashishin, assassins" --- depending on sources, they look a lot like the model bin Laden styles himself after, or you'll read that they're "apostates." Sunni, Shia, Wahabi, this, that, and the other Caliphate, and the squabbles among them all have been going on for a millennium. The point being that they've been making a colossal mess of the cultures, politics, and social structures of the area for well over a thousand years. Acknowledgment of the root of the squabbles, who's got first dibs on the collection plates, is never made by any of the parties to the squabbles; the squabbles are instead attributed to the actions of outsiders, infidels, "the Great Satan," and any other number of puerile excuses, much the same as the "fact" that no group of 8-12 year olds have ever put baseballs through neighbors' windows --- birds swooped down, grabbed the ball and dropped it, it rolled into the street and a passing truck squeezed it under a tire and it popped out like a watermelon seed, a passing biker gang grabbed it and deliberately threw it through the window --- you can as easily attribute "the rise of fundamentalism" to the rise of the "dial an excuse industry" Freud started --- they aren't fundamentalists because they're ignorant, greedy, vicious, vindictive people --- they're fundamentalists because 90% of the world's population enjoys a better standard of living without Islam, and it makes them look and feel bad about themselves --- we've destroyed their "self-esteem."

 

[clj4]

Yes, I would like you to show me these pacts, and I would like to you start collaborating your statements with the small thing we call Historical fact.

First off learn how to write English. You claim that you lived all over Europe but you can't write: it is "corroborate' , not "collaborate".

Second off, you are so proud of your knowledge of history, do you remember the many non-aggression pacts signed with the nazis? (Russia: Molotov-Ribbentrop, Great Britain: Chamberlain, etc, etc).

As to "collaborationists", you are probably too young to remember the after war trials in Norway, France, Ukraine, Yugoslavia, Romania, Poland (remember the concentration camps), Czechoslovakia (remember the concentration camps) and...in your own country of birth, Greece. See here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborationism

Looks like both your birth country and your adopted one figure high on the list. .

Have you had enough? Do you want more?

 

[kyleb]

Yes, very serving to arab propaganda. Besides, your quote was by a nazi at the Nurnberg trial, Very convenient.

The first two quotes in what I sited up there were not from a Nazi, but rather from Theodor Herzl, and that is not propaganda of any sort but rather historical fact. If you want to toss the blame around about how WWII happened, let us be sure to count all the heads.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm

 

[clj4]

The first two quotes in what I sited up there were not from a Nazi, but rather from Theodor Herzl, and that is not propaganda of any sort but rather historical fact. If you want to toss the blame around about how WWII happened, let us be sure to count all the heads.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm

Classical revisionism: blame the victims. Your quote was from a nazi war criminal quoting Herzl.
Today, the islamo-fascists are taking pages from their nazi mentors in terms of justifying their actions (see Iran's president quotes)
Give it up, u are not fooling anyone.

 

[kyleb]

Your quote was from a nazi war criminal quoting Herzl.

No, the first two quotes in what I sighted above are direct from Herzl's diary. Please quit ignoring these facts:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm

 

[Anttech]

In Europe there is only 3 countries that speak English, what's your point? I never said I was proud of my history, would you like to point out where I said that?

Second off, you are so proud of your knowledge of history, do you remember the many non-agression pacts signed with the Nazis? (Russia: Molotov-Ribbentrop, Great Britain: Chamberlain, etc, etc).

No I am too young to remember those Sorry about that. (And its aggression not agression)

So you are asserting that the pacts that Russia and GB signed with the Nazi's were because they were colluding with the Nazi's in order to sell them Jews to Exterminate? Is that what you are asserting? (By the way in case you didnt realize Russia isn't in Europe)

 

[kyleb]

blame the victims.

And no I don't blame the victims at all, again that site is supported by such victims and their decedents.

 

[clj4]

In Europe there is only 3 countries that speak English, what's your point? I never said I was proud of my history, would you like to point out where I said that?

No I am too young to remember those Sorry about that. (And its aggression not agression)

So you are asserting that the pacts that Russia and GB signed with the Nazi's were because they were colluding with the Nazi's in order to sell them Jews to Exterminate? Is that what you are asserting? (By the way in case you didnt realize Russia isn't in Europe)

No, your pedantry is only equaled by your lack of comprehension. Read the posts again. BTW, you are very good at selective quoting. Helps with twisting the facts but doesn't help with making your case. Keep apologising, see what's in stock for you:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/muslimprotest.aspOh, about pedantry : a big part of Russia IS in Europe. But you are too young to know that.

Did you see the nice part on the Greek collaborators ? No? Try reading, ask your parents, they might set you straight. Maybe you will stop being so antisemitic after you talk with them . They lived the times, they can tell you first hand what went on.

 

[clj4]

No, the first two quotes in what I sighted above are direct from Herzl's diary. Please quit ignoring these facts:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm

...quoted by the nazi war criminal. You are doing a fine job.

 

[Anttech]

As to "collaborationists", you are probably too young to remember the after war trials in Norway, France, Ukraine, Yugoslavia, Romania, Poland (remember the concentration camps), Czechoslovakia (remember the concentration camps) and...in your own country of birth, Greece. See here:

Didnt realize Glasgow was in Greece

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II#German_Invasion_of_Greece_and_Crete

Greece was commended by the Allies after the war for there courage, there will be trators everywhere. Churchill was even quoted saying

No longer will people say that Greeks fight like brave men, they will say brave men fight like Greeks.

Again you smear the VAST majority by the actions of the few.

 

[Anttech]

No, your pedantry is only equaled by your lack of comprehension. Read the posts again. BTW, you are very good at selective quoting. Helps with twisting the facts but doesn't help with making your case. Keep apologising, see what's in stock for you:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/muslimprotest.asp

Comprehension?

You are in denial. Like the europeans that sold out to the nazis before WWII in the hope that they will be left alone. There are no more jews to sell this time.

...

Who sold who out? Please (I am asking nicely, no?) could you expand on that a bit? Which Europeans sold out, and what are you asserting by saying that?

...

The people of the many european countries who either signed pacts and/or colaborated with the nazis . Do you need a history refresher? France, Belgium, Netherlands, etc.

...

Yes, I would like you to show me these pacts, and I would like to you start collaborating your statements with the small thing we call Historical fact.

...

First off learn how to write English. You claim that you lived all over Europe but you can't write: it is "corroborate' , not "collaborate".

Second off, you are so proud of your knowledge of history, do you remember the many non-agression pacts signed with the nazis? (Russia: Molotov-Ribbentrop, Great Britain: Chamberlain, etc, etc).

As to "collaborationists", you are probably too young to remember the after war trials in Norway, France, Ukraine, Yugoslavia, Romania, Poland (remember the concentration camps), Czechoslovakia (remember the concentration camps) and...in your own country of birth, Greece. See here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborationism

Looks like both your birth country and your adopted one figure high on the list. .

Have you had enough? Do you want more?

...

No I am too young to remember those Sorry about that. (And its aggression not agression)

So you are asserting that the pacts that Russia and GB signed with the Nazi's were because they were colluding with the Nazi's in order to sell them Jews to Exterminate? Is that what you are asserting? (By the way in case you didnt realize Russia isn't in Europe)

...

No, your pedantry is only equaled by your lack of comprehension. Read the posts again. BTW, you are very good at selective quoting. Helps with twisting the facts but doesn't help with making your case. Keep apologising, see what's in stock for you:

Considering we were talking about Jews, and you asserted that the Europeans sold out the jews with pacts, I think I was asking a rather on topic question, which once again, you choose to ignore and continue to insult me.

So answer the question, Are you asserting the pact that were between GB and Germany and Russia and Germany were to sell out the Jews?

 

[kyleb]

...quoted by the nazi war criminal. You are doing a fine job.

No they are directly quoted from Herzl's diary by a group of Jewish people who are victims and decedents of that Nazi war criminal's Victoms. Please stop denying historical fact here, and read this:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm

 

[Anttech]

Did you see the nice part on the Greek collaborators ? No? Try reading, ask your parents, they might set you straight. Maybe you will stop being so antisemitic after you talk with them . They lived the times, they can tell you first hand what went on.

You are now accusing me of being anti-semitic? Please show me where I was being anti-semitic. Maybe I was being anti-"kill all the Lebanese civilians".

What have my parents got to do with this?

Can you stop insulting me, I am getting a bit tired of this

 

[clj4]

Didnt realize Glasgow was in Greece

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II#German_Invasion_of_Greece_and_Crete

Greece was commended by the Allies after the war for there courage, there will be trators everywhere. Churchill was even quoted saying Again you smear the VAST majority by the actions of the few.

Hmm,

Are you a lawyer? What Glasgow -you told us that you are Greek, if you live in Glasgow this doesn't make it your BIRTH country, right? Can you read (and comprehend). Here is the stuff straight off wiki:

"In Greece, general Tsolakoglou, who did not represent the Greek government in exile, signed the surrender of Greece in April 1941. Tsolakoglou was awarded for this contribution the ledership of the first Nazi-held puppet government in Athens. Tsolakoglou was followed by Logothetopoulos, who wished to create a Greek division for the Waffen-SS. Although he failed to, he helped some thousand die-hard fascists and national-socialist (some from the previous quasi-fascist regime of Ioannis Metaxas of 1936-1941), anti-communist and anti-semite Greeks to volunteer and enroll in the German Army. The third Greek collaborationist regime was headed by Ioannis Rallis. Unlike in other countries, most Greek collaborators and far-right sympathizers enjoyed prominent posts in the post-war Greek governments"

I am starting to wonder , you obviously lie to yourself, are you lying to everyone else? It isn't working.