Is Anyone Truly in Control Amidst the Ukrainian Crisis?

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In summary, there is violence in Kiev and other parts of Ukraine. The US seems to be mostly silent, and there is concern that the violence will spread. There is a lack of information on the situation, and it is unclear what will happen next.
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  • #912
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  • #913
Astronuc said:
This may deserve a separate thread about Putin, but http://news.yahoo.com/prominent-russian-opposition-figure-boris-nemtsov-shot-dead-223512822.html

So Russia is a classic dictatorship/oligarchy, complete with eliminating opposition through assassination or execution. Kind of like Iraq under Saddam, or Chile under Pinochet, . . . .

Well, it may be a result of sanctions and cheap oil that no longer polonium was used.
 
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  • #914
Astronuc said:
This may deserve a separate thread about Putin, but http://news.yahoo.com/prominent-russian-opposition-figure-boris-nemtsov-shot-dead-223512822.html

So Russia is a classic dictatorship/oligarchy, complete with eliminating opposition through assassination or execution. Kind of like Iraq under Saddam, or Chile under Pinochet, . . . .
Did you hear the story of how Aaron Burr, Jefferson's Vice-President, executed poor Alexander Hamilton in a one-sided duel?

As an occasional reader of Sun Tzu and Machiavelli, I've come to the sneaking suspicion that might makes right and the ends justify the means.
 
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  • #915
Dotini said:
Did you hear the story of how Aaron Burr, Jefferson's Vice-President, executed poor Alexander Hamilton in a one-sided duel?
Please provide a reference for this assertion. It doesn't seem consistent with other historical accounts.
For example - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burr–Hamilton_duel#The_duel

In the case of Nemtsov, he was clearly assassinated by all accounts.
 
  • #916
Regardless of the accuracy, it has no relevance. It was 200 years ago.
 
  • #917
Astronuc said:
Please provide a reference for this assertion. It doesn't seem consistent with other historical accounts.
For example - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burr–Hamilton_duel#The_duel

In the case of Nemtsov, he was clearly assassinated by all accounts.
The wiki account seems right enough. Burr, the challenger, intended to kill and did. Hamilton, who did not really want to fight, shot first but errantly. Some called it murder, though of course it wasn't. I thought the affair relevant to mention, as an example of how men in positions of leadership can put things like their manly honor above the laws of church and state.
 
  • #918
Ukraine industry seeks ties with West, but buckles in crisis
http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-industry-seeks-ties-west-buckles-crisis-072355202.html
KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — Volodymyr Kuzovkin's office is less than 50 miles from the European Union, but for him and his factory, the EU is a world away.

Despite Ukraine's desperation to integrate with Europe, a desire so strong it sparked the protests that ousted pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych last year, much of Ukrainian business remains wedded to Soviet-era practices even as it is buffeted by a very modern economic crisis.
. . . .
 
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  • #919
Euphoria fades in Crimea after a year of Russian rule
http://news.yahoo.com/euphoria-fades-crimea-russian-rule-131258304.html

. . . .
"Ordinary Russians lost out with the annexation of Crimea," said Sergei, a construction goods retailer from Kiev who moved to Simferopol last year with his wife and children after protests that turned violent in the Ukrainian capital.

"Across the whole of Russia, prices are going up, there are sanctions, the rouble has devalued," he said, closing the kitchen window to stop his neighbors overhearing.

Such discontent has not prevented the celebrations which began on Monday in Crimea, the anniversary of the referendum which showed 97 percent support for joining Russia. The days-long party will also include a concert in Moscow on Wednesday.
. . . .
 
  • #921
Russian far-right, licensed opposition, Rodina Party) (I'd use this euphemism and not call them Neo-Nazi) is organizing a summit for other far-right parties from EU countries.
http://www.i24news.tv/en/news/inter...kraine-to-be-attended-by-far-right-eu-parties

It would sound quite funny, assuming that according to official propaganda claims Russian are supposed to fight against Nazis and not actually finance them. To more serious part is that Russians have some successes in using such movements as their political tool against the EU.
 
  • #923
Yanukovych son Victor Yanukovych jr. - drowned in Lake Baikal, when ice broke below his car. Only he died, the passangers escaped.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...an-president-viktor-yanukovych-drowns-in-lake

Now, according to Sputnik (no link, I'm not boosting in google Russian propaganda) on the burial Victor Yanukovych sr. had a heart attack.

Guess?
a) Really, really lot's of bad luck.
b) They made Putin unhappy. Or offended prophet Muhammad what outraged some usual rogue element in Chechen forces.
c) Wanted to start a new life with new identities.

I'd rank my guesses in the following way "c", "b" or "a".
 
  • #924
Analysis: US experts on Russia fear escalation over Ukraine
http://news.yahoo.com/analysis-us-experts-russia-fear-escalation-over-ukraine-072234139.html
U.S. and Western European moves to isolate Russia and damage its economy for its seizure of the Crimean peninsula and support of separatists in eastern Ukraine against the Western-backed central government have not forced President Vladimir Putin to back down.

The State Department says Russia is beefing up its troops and weapons along the Ukrainian border. Meanwhile, the U.S. has dispatched 300 American military trainers to work with the Ukraine army, and other NATO members are adding hundreds more.
A partial cease-fire? How does one partially cease/stop some action?
 
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  • #925
Astronuc said:
A partial cease-fire? How does one partially cease/stop some action?
Both sides agree to a cease-fire, but only Ukraine actually does.
 
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  • #926
Astronuc said:
Analysis: US experts on Russia fear escalation over Ukraine
http://news.yahoo.com/analysis-us-experts-russia-fear-escalation-over-ukraine-072234139.html
A partial cease-fire? How does one partially cease/stop some action?
OSW (very good Polish think-tank) concluded that after a hybrid war, there is a hybrid peace.

1) Anyway, Finland chases away some unidentified submarine using depth charges:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32498790

2) Russian military exercise sabotage efforts related to lying sea cable between Lithuania and Sweden, official complains of Sweden and Lithuania:
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/b633b3ea-f0b9-11e4-ace4-00144feab7de.html#axzz3Z3yD5neR

Are Russians working really hard to make Finland and Sweden drop their neutrality? And later claim with outrage that NATO is encroaching Russia even more?3) Putin's nationalistic biker gang barred from entering EU (so far: Poland, Lithuania, Finland) countries:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/pro-vladimir-putin-night-wolves-biker-gang-barred-entry-lithuania-1499011
Russia officially furious, because it was supposed to commemorate WW2 battles, lay wreaths, so on.

4) Unfortunately, Russian currency reserves started to stabilize:
http://www.cbr.ru/Eng/hd_base/?PrtId=mrrf_7d

5) WW2 Commemoration:
5.1) Did Germans surrendered in WW2 on 8th May or 9th May? Polish parliament officially canceled the 9th May date, in spite of Russian protest.
5.2) In Poland we giggle, that Russian 9th May parade is going to be even less prestigious that thought so. So far there was a problem that it would be boycotted by whole West, but now there is even a more serious blow - Kim Jong Un will not come!
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/...ill-not-attend-victory-day-parade/520082.html
5.3) Anyway, Poland organizes commemoration of 70th anniversary of end of WW2 in Gdańsk (not bad choice, it was place where WW2 started)
http://www.thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/204611,CEE-presidents-confirmed-for-Polands-VE-Day-tribute
 
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  • #929
Czcibor said:
Just idea of taking a foreigner is a bit unusual.

Foreigner is less likely to have "interests" and "friends" making it harder to fight corruption.

Saakashvili probably has the best track record of doing that.

The worry is that regional governors don't have that much power. They can't fire or appoint most of government employees.
 
  • #932
"United Nations: The Netherlands, Malaysia and three other countries want a UN tribunal to be set up to try those responsible for the downing of the Malaysia Airlines flight over Ukraine last year, a senior diplomat said Wednesday.

Malaysia is expected to present a draft resolution to the Security Council next month on setting up the tribunal, said the diplomat, who asked not to be named."
http://zeenews.india.com/news/world...or-un-tribunal-for-mh17-culprits_1619485.html

Sure, Russian can veto it... Just such veto would look even more like admission of guilt.
 
  • #934
Czcibor said:
"United Nations: The Netherlands, Malaysia and three other countries want a UN tribunal to be set up to try those responsible for the downing of the Malaysia Airlines flight over Ukraine last year, a senior diplomat said Wednesday.

Malaysia is expected to present a draft resolution to the Security Council next month on setting up the tribunal, said the diplomat, who asked not to be named."
http://zeenews.india.com/news/world...or-un-tribunal-for-mh17-culprits_1619485.html

Sure, Russian can veto it... Just such veto would look even more like admission of guilt.

Nevermind the investigation. The truth is what we say it is. Might makes right. Our means are justified by our ends. :rolleyes:
 
  • #935
  • #936
Sweden found a tiny Russian submarine. Officially Swedes are worried: "The submarine is completely intact, has no visible damage to the hull and the hatches are closed. Therefore we do fear that the crew has not been able to save themselves when the sub went down".
 
  • #938
Russia on Wednesday vetoed a U.N. Security Council resolution that would set up an international criminal court to prosecute those responsible for shooting down a Malaysia Airlines plane over Ukraine a year ago.

[...]

Three countries abstained from the vote: China, Angola and Venezuela, whose ambassador said victims' suffering shouldn't be used politically.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/russian-veto-expected-security-council-votes-mh17-32748771As I've seen on one Polish forum:
Since when a criminal decides whether to be judged or not?
Since he has nukes
 
  • #940
Czcibor said:
5.1) Did Germans surrendered in WW2 on 8th May or 9th May?

The West said the surrender was one minute before midnight, USSR said one minute after.
 
  • #941
Hornbein said:
The West said the surrender was one minute before midnight, USSR said one minute after.

More complicated. Because Russians intended to use caught Germans as slaves, Germans tried to surrender to West, while military delay Soviet advances. The result was that first surrender to the West was signed on the 7th, while effective on 8th. Soviets demand for PR reasons also a surrender to them, thus they insisted on 9th.

Of course, when now history is being weaponized such minor date difference matters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Instrument_of_Surrender
 
  • #942
There was already year ago a poll showing that first time in history (or from at least many years) there is a slight majority in Sweden for joining NATO:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/29/us-sweden-nato-idUSKBN0II1XN20141029

Recent polls show that it was not a fluke:
http://www.thelocal.se/20150914/poll-more-swedes-now-for-nato-than-against

So far split society. It would be a quite good job of Putin if he manage annoy Swedes enough to make them officially drop their sacred, semi-neutrality.
 
  • #943
Annoyance? You think that is the best description of Swedish sentiment regards Putin's Russia?
 
  • #944
  • #945
A small correction, the guy who was kidnapped is the local equivalent (it's a small country) of an FBI/CIA officer, not a border guard.

Yes, its quite an application of force by Russia towards a NATO country. If your guy gets caught doing illegal spying, you kidnap their guy from their country (by literally crossing the border and kidnapping someone) and then do an exchange.
 

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