Navigating the Tensions in Ukraine: A Scientific Perspective

[phinds]

All Russian military must leave Ukraine!

Or what? We put sanctions on Russia? "Must" to me implies there is an enforcement mechanism that is going to make it happen. Really?

If the Chinese are giving equipment to Russia, then China should be sanctioned just as bad as Russia. plane @ simple

Sanctioning China would be much like sanctioning ourselves our economies are so intertwined. Russia was relatively easy for us. China would be a nightmare.

 

[StevieTNZ]

 

[phinds]

Yes.
https://www.huffpost.com/

 

[Bystander]

Sanctioning China would be much like sanctioning ourselves our economies are so intertwined.

"The time has come, the walrus said..."

 

[256bits]

there was some denial on the part of the Ukrainian government,

Easy to explain - It's your country at risk, so don't poke the bear and give it an excuse to attack. Attempt to play nice and hope a better resolution comes about, rather than invasion. A stategy that can work at times to de-escalate, in this case not. It could be a reason, though, that fresh conscripts were sent in the beginning rather than a full brunt heavy force, with Ukraine being overrun in a short time.

 

[256bits]

If he dares attack Poland? NATO?

I seriously doubt that an attack on Poland is in the cards.

 

[256bits]

China is a funny country, no matter what you accuse them off they always deny it and claim it's disinformation and then when a world wide pandemic starts in one of their cities (or possibly lab's) then they say the US soldiers brought it to them... Not sure whether to laugh or cry

Why the (or possibly lab's).
Certainly that has a tainted flavour to it by seeding a dis-thought in the minds of readers.
Why don't you check on where some of the funding to the lab in question came from, and you will realize that everything in the world today ( as much as it was years gone past ) is intertwined quite extensively.

Read up on Noble, yes the Noble Prize guy, and his contribution to explosives and the result towards the mass destruction of people and cities.

 

[mathwonk]

As a sobering lesson on what potentially rebellious captured citizens could face under a Russian dictator's control, one might recall the "Katyn" episode against Poland in 1940, (which may have been mentioned here, but I didn't notice). It seems quite Orwellian that Soviet guilt, long evident but suppressed, was finally admitted by Russia in 1990, overwhelmingly documented and proved, then again denied in 2021, with Putin possibly taking opposite sides at different times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

 

[Klystron]

Truth is the first casualty of war.

Paraphrase from an ancient Greek tragedy.

 

[Astronuc]

Read up on Noble, yes the Noble Prize guy, and his contribution to explosives and the result towards the mass destruction of people and cities.

That would be Alfred Nobel.

Nobel's most famous invention was dynamite, a safer and easier means of harnessing the explosive power of nitroglycerin; it was patented in 1867 and was soon used worldwide for mining and infrastructure development.

If not Nobel, then someone else.

Joseph Wilbrand, a German chemist discovered Trinitrotoluene (TNT) in 1863 for use as a yellow dye. It wasn't until 1902 that the devastating power of TNT was fully realized and it was adopted as an explosive in time for extensive use by both sides in World War I and World War II

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...an-expected/articleshow/55975685.cms?from=mdr
https://sciencing.com/invention-tnt-15791.html

Asciano Sobrero, inventor of nitroglycerin, thought it was too destructive to be useful.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...troglycerin-was-horrified-dynamite-180965192/
https://www.nobelprize.org/alfred-nobel/ascanio-sobrero/

And there are PETN, RDX, HMX, . . . .

Pentaerythritol tetranitrate was first prepared and patented in 1894 by the explosives manufacturer Rheinisch-Westfälische Sprengstoff A.G. of Cologne, Germany. The production of PETN started in 1912, when the improved method of production was patented by the German government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentaerythritol_tetranitrate

RDX (abbreviation of "Research Department eXplosive" or "Royal Demolition eXplosive"),
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDX#History

HMX (High Melting Explosive, Her Majesty's Explosive, High-velocity Military Explosive, or High-Molecular-weight RDX. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMX

And there are even more powerful chemical explosives, not to mention nuclear systems, that Putin has put on the table! Technology is often dual use. One can use it productively (as in mining or excavation) or destructively (as in demolition). Sometimes, knowledge and wisdom aren't carried in the same basket.

I was listening last night to a program about the Akkadian history and conflicts with Babylonians and Medians (Medes). We're still at it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akkadian_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes

 

[Astronuc]

Sanctioning China would be much like sanctioning ourselves our economies are so intertwined.

Maybe time to bring the supply chain home.

Apple supplier Foxconn halting operations could deal a blow to iPhone maker: analyst​

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/appl...-deal-a-financial-blow-analyst-161618156.html

 

[vela]

Putin threatened harm to employees of Google and Apple to force the companies to remove Navalny's app from their app stores.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/12/russia-putin-google-apple-navalny/

It wasn't exactly unforeseeable that Putin would make a move like this. It makes one question the wisdom of doing business in a place like Russia or China.

 

[hutchphd]

Attempt to play nice and hope a better resolution comes about, rather than invasion.

Remember all things change. Putin is my age...he could die tomorrow. Nukes are forever.
This does not mean look the other way. It means play the cards as dealt. Nukes kill the children too./

 

[StevieTNZ]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainme...her-own-live-tv-broadcast-with-antiwar-banner

Russian editor storms into her own live TV broadcast with anti-war banner​

 

[geordief]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainme...her-own-live-tv-broadcast-with-antiwar-banner

Russian editor storms into her own live TV broadcast with anti-war banner​

What was that title they used to bestow?
Ah,yes "Hero of the Soviet Union"

They should start again.They are fighting for us.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Russian editor storms into her own live TV broadcast with anti-war banner

Don't you mean FORMER Russian editor?

 

[StevieTNZ]

Anyway, the lady who was brought out on a stretcher from the maternity hospital made the headlines a few days ago. I'm sure you saw it.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europ...-tragedy-of-war-in-ukraine-dies-with-her-baby

Pregnant woman whose photo showed tragedy of war in Ukraine dies with her baby​

Now, the AP reports that the woman and her baby died in horrific conditions in the aftermath of the attack on the hospital – arriving for surgery with her pelvis crushed and hip detached.

Surgeon Timur Marin told the AP that medics delivered the baby via caesarean section but that the infant showed “no signs of life”.

 

[hutchphd]

sedition

There are laws about sedition for a reason.

 

[Oldman too]

This is all foreign to me. Is it really possible to build Gulags fast enough? Is it?

Are you familiar with "Stalin and his Hangmen"? The answer is, yes. The labor pool is also the guest list.

 

[Vanadium 50]

here are laws about sedition for a reason.

How can it be sedition? The US is at peace with both sides of this conflict. How does this differ from Saudi Arabia and Yemen?

 

[DennisN]

Another interesting input from a Russian, this time an ex-KGB agent.
(The video title implies it is about photos of Putin, but it's about more than that. Photos are mentioned, but it's a minor issue in this interview, I think).

Ex-KGB agent weighs in on 'bizarre' Putin photos (CNN, Mar 13, 2022)

Former KGB agent Jack Barsky discusses Russian President Vladimir Putin's potential mindset as Russia's invasion of Ukraine expands across the country.

 

[Astronuc]

"Must" to me implies there is an enforcement mechanism that is going to make it happen.

That's more the so-called 'leaders' of the US and EU. I'm not seeing much leadership at the moment.

The invasion should have been stopped as soon as they crossed the border into Ukraine, if not sooner. I'm guessing the leadership didn't want to upset the madman Putin.

The best time to stop a fire is before it becomes a conflagration, which is what we no have in Ukraine.

 

[Filip Larsen]

BBC is also reporting on the brave Russian TV editor Marina Ovsyannikova trying to wake up people: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60744605

She also explains herself in another video (included in the end of the BBC video clip), but normal Russians probably do not have access to that clip unfortunately.

 

[Filip Larsen]

I would like to encurage people here to please consider leaving the lame and dark jokes on people that is on the receiving end of this tragedy to another thread. I know dark humor can be a relief, but it can also be perceived as extremely disrespectful.

 

[PeroK]

How can it be sedition? The US is at peace with both sides of this conflict.

I agree it's not sedition, and the US is at peace militarily with Russia, but the US has imposed sanctions against Russia and there can be no doubt about the US Government's position on this war.

Fox News is pouring the same poison into US society that Russian state media has poured into Russian society.

 

[wrobel]

I think we need a 'reset'

if instead of the previous 'reset' Putin had got an adequate response the present war would not have happened

 

[PeroK]

I seriously doubt that an attack on Poland is in the cards.

Poland, on the other hand, may not wish to be quite so complacent.

 

[artis]

It wasn't exactly unforeseeable that Putin would make a move like this. It makes one question the wisdom of doing business in a place like Russia or China.

Maximizing profits I think, I can't see any other wisdom besides that. I also don't believe CEO's and shareholders of large corporations aren't informed of the policies of the countries they are doing business with.

This can get to ridiculous details like removing the Taiwanese flag from Tom Cruise's jacket in the upcoming Top Gun sequel
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/22/media/top-gun-flags-intl-hnk/index.html

Or John Cena apologizing like a schoolboy who forgot his homework about daring to call Taiwan a country. This is exactly the type of cowardice and profit driven policy making that enables people like Putin or Xi Jinping


I wonder what if US had as much financial interest in Russia as they do in China what would then people like John Cena say about the Ukrainian situation...

 

[artis]

If he dares attack Poland? NATO?

Then NATO must engage in military attack directly with Russia plain and simple, which means US will have to fight Russia. If for whatever reason NATO mumbles the response or fails to respond then NATO is effectively dead and can disband altogether.
This is the worry some have here in the Baltics, what would happen if Russia decided to roll in and take some small part first , given we are in NATO would NATO countries be willing to risk a nuclear war with Russia to keep up the 5th article that says that "attack one one is an attack on all"

We do have a local well trained professional army but given Russian numbers we are outnumbered and outgunned which means we can only "slow" and stop any military advance for a brief period of time , say few days at most , then reinforcements or more like the full NATO regular troops have to be here together with air support and all else, otherwise it's a dead end.

 

[fresh_42]

Then NATO must engage in military attack directly with Russia plain and simple, which means US will have to fight Russia. If for whatever reason NATO mumbles the response or fails to respond then NATO is effectively dead and can disband altogether.
This is the worry some have here in the Baltics, what would happen if Russia decided to roll in and take some small part first , given we are in NATO would NATO countries be willing to risk a nuclear war with Russia to keep up the 5th article that says that "attack one one is an attack on all"

And note that they currently hold a maneuver in Kaliningrad aka Königsberg. At least, this is what I read yesterday!

 

[russ_watters]

sedition

There are laws about sedition for a reason.

And those laws say that sedition is about fomenting rebellion, which isn't at play here.

It is far worse to advocate/employ Russian style attacks against a media outlet than for a media outlet to spread Russian style misinformation.

 

[PeroK]

It is far worse to advocate/employ Russian style attacks against a media outlet than for a media outlet to spread Russian style misinformation.

Eventually misinformation reaches the stage where it threatens the very survival of free democracies. Ultimately Tucker Carlson may be free to say what he likes, but others are free to hate him from the very bottom of their hearts for saying it.

 

[russ_watters]

Eventually misinformation reaches the stage where it threatens the very survival of free democracies.

I don't believe that's a thing. I believe and trust in the principles of democracy and argue that you can't promote democracy with autocracy.

Ultimately Tucker Carlson may be free to say what he likes, but others are free to hate him from the very bottom of their hearts for saying it.

Yes. Just please don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[hutchphd]

Ultimately Tucker Carlson may be free to say what he likes, but others are free to hate him from the very bottom of their hearts for saying it.

Which prompted my original posting which was banned.
And I was accused, by a mentor, of being a probable fan of MSNBC. Not his finest hour IMHO. Having devoutly promised not to repeat the "childish" reference, I will point to the article from the Portland ME Herald that I was in fact quoting
https://edition.pagesuite.com/popov...zBxmwyzPkz6ljUYlGMXUxxBo51IfqplauxK-jY1vy_Yvg

 

[PeroK]

Yes. Just please don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

And please don't bomb the baby out of the bath water because you believe there are chemical weapons being manufactured in an apartment building.

I don't believe that's a thing. I believe and trust in the principles of democracy and argue that you can't promote democracy with autocracy.

Democracy is not indestructible. It's been destroyed in Russia over the past 20 years. It's being destroyed in the Ukraine. And if Tucker Carlson helps bring about that destruction, then it may be the lesser of two evils to shut him up.