Navigating the Tensions in Ukraine: A Scientific Perspective

[Isopod]

"Ukraine to go on offensive after mass graves found with more than 1,200 bodies"​

https://metro.co.uk/2022/04/11/ukra...an-1200-bodies-found-in-mass-graves-16442381/

"Russian soldier arrested ‘for raping baby’ in Ukraine"​

https://metro.co.uk/2022/04/10/russian-soldier-arrested-for-raping-baby-in-ukraine-16439692/

 

[Isopod]

Ukraine: Three ways this war could escalate and drag Nato in​

"The bigger strategic question," says one of Britain's most experienced military officers who asks not to be named, "is whether our government is engaged in crisis management or actual strategy." That would require thinking this through to the finish, he adds.

"What we are trying to achieve here is to give Ukraine every bit of help we can, short of World War Three. The problem is, Putin is a better poker player than we are."
Tobias Ellwood MP agrees.

"Russia does this [the threat of escalation] very effectively. And we are spooked. We have lost the ability to control the escalatory ladder."

Full article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61051307Yeah, I would have to agree [with these sentiments].

 

[ISamson]

This all just shows how history tends to repeat itself. Lessons, as much as mistakes, are forgotten in just 2 generations, 80 years, and all the vices and evils come flooding back. Russians says that it is time to remind the West and Europe of what happens when red lines are crossed and refresh humanity's collective memory.

 

[pinball1970]

This all just shows how history tends to repeat itself. Lessons, as much as mistakes, are forgotten in just 2 generations, 80 years, and all the vices and evils come flooding back. Russians says that it is time to remind the West and Europe of what happens when red lines are crossed.

Yes, there is no point in discussing who was more barbaric than who.

We are capable of barbarism.

The build up of troops has been highlighted in the east. I hope the UK has hurried enough supplies to Ukraine in time for this next stage.

 

[Isopod]

This all just shows how history tends to repeat itself. Lessons, as much as mistakes, are forgotten in just 2 generations, 80 years, and all the vices and evils come flooding back. Russians says that it is time to remind the West and Europe of what happens when red lines are crossed.

Yeah, I agree. The fact that even in this thread (on a forum full of supposedly smart people) there are people doubting the eye witness accounts of Ukrainians and spouting stuff like the Germans were a better kind of person in war in WW2 because they were from civilised backgrounds, is also disturbing.

We have learned nothing.

"Who would guarantee Ukraine's security? | Inside Story"​

Zelensky regrets Ukraine giving away its nuclear weapons (and he is damn right when he says that it weakened the country).

The main message that the conflict in Ukraine is sending out to literally just about every developing country in the world right now is "GET NUCLEAR WEAPONS NO MATTER WHAT, ASAP!".

N.Korea & Iran have terrible dictators and human rights records, but you don't see the US invading them! Why? Because they have nukes.

Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc? They all got invaded because they don't have nuclear weapons.

The West likes to talk a big moral game, but the truth of the matter is that whatever reasons we use to justify invading some people's, we never pick on anyone who really has the means to take the war/fighting back to our own home turfs.

Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons on the promise that it would be protected by the Western world. If they'd known back then that this promise of protection only extended to either option 1 of "We'll send troops etc if the person attacking you is considerably weaker than us" or option 2 of "We'll only do sanctions and send stuff if the person attacking you could be a real threat to us", then I don't think they would have ever given up their nuclear arsenal.

If the Western world ever had any persuading power in the past to encourage countries to give up their nuclear weapons (or not develop them in the 1st place), then how things have played out in Ukraine, have pretty much evaporated that persuading power.

Countries with nukes don't get invaded, nuke-free countries do.

 

[Klystron]

...
We have learned nothing.
...

So true, to our regret.

N.Korea & Iran have terrible dictators and human rights records, but you don't see the US invading them! Why? Because they have nukes.

Perhaps because the former country lacks easily stolen resources coveted by the ruling party.

Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc? They all got invaded because they don't have nuclear weapons.

The former and latter countries contain massive petroleum reserves.

...
Countries with nukes don't get invaded, nuke-free countries do.

Arguably large swaths of the EU have been 'invaded by ravenous hordes of refugees' likely seeking improved living standards more than security under a nuclear umbrella.

 

[Isopod]

I read this article earlier today on "Putin's mysterious Facebook 'superfans' on a mission". I've previously mentioned in this thread stuff about Russian bot accounts, I thought that it was an interesting article for anyone curious about the subject: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-61012398

I've personally noticed that when it comes to YouTube news channels, some in particular seem to be absolutely flooded with Russian bot accounts spreading anti-Ukrainian sentiments (for example Al Jazeera & Sky News always seem to have a lot).

You can report bot accounts for spreading misinformation (Youtube also actually seems to be responding to the reports, removing the bot accounts).

"How to Identify a Russian Bot on Twitter":

https://socialmediahq.com/how-to-identify-a-russian-bot-on-twitter/

https://www.motherjones.com/media/2018/08/how-to-identify-russian-bots-twitter/

 

[berkeman]

Thread closed for Moderation...

 

[berkeman]

Update -- After a Mentor discussion, the thread will remain closed. We tried our best to keep it open (and reopen it after many edits), but this topic is too orthogonal to the PF mission to be able to deal with.

Unfortunately there are still some visible posts (especially near the end of this thread closure) that are infraction worthy and deletion worthy, but honestly, we are not able to invest any more effort in trying to manage the thread and keep it open. Let us all hope that the conflict can be resolved without too much more loss of innocent life, and the world recovers from this episode with this insane person who has nuclear weapons that he can use when his visions tell him it's a good idea.

Have a nice day.