- #421
Evo
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
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Al Jezeera is arabic, obviously they are anti-semitic. Let's be real here, there is no love between arabs and jews.
klimatos said:Do you also feel sorry for the merchants who lost their tea in Boston Harbor? Is it your opinion that the looters who boarded the ships and dumped the tea were nasty old rioters and criminals?
All revolutions have collateral damage.
WhoWee said:I guess the notion of "peaceful protest" has given way to "revolution"? A revolution can be quite deadly.
What ever happened to this idea?
http://www.lyricsfire.com/viewlyrics/beatles/revolution-lyrics.htm
"You say you want a revolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know you can count me out"
lisab said:So how would you have them get rid of their government? Writing letters to the editor? Carrying signs outside of the Presidential Palace?
What recourse to they have?
I like your posts, WhoWee, even if I disagree with most of them. But you're coming off as a bit of an Eeyore on this issue.
Evo said:Al Jezeera is arabic, obviously they are anti-semitic. Let's be real here, there is no love between arabs and jews.
HossamCFD said:Obviously, your understanding of the word semitic is that it is a synonym of the word jew. would you care to elaborate what this understanding is based on ?
From the Cambridge dictionaries online :
Semitic: adjective, relating to the race of people that includes Arabs and Jews, or to their languages
So Klimatos was technically 100% correct when he said "Almost everyone who works at Al Jazeera is a Semite"
Lacy33 said:Thank you for stating this.
And I would also like to say that it is not that there is no love between Arabs and Jews, we are brothers and sisters. We share some same genes from the fathers side.
I'm sure we will get along just fine. We just have not been properly introduced.
klimatos said:Do you also feel sorry for the merchants who lost their tea in Boston Harbor? Is it your opinion that the looters who boarded the ships and dumped the tea were nasty old rioters and criminals?
All revolutions have collateral damage.
That's very true.
What many people don't realize about the American revoltion is that it wasn't a revolution of the people, it was a revolution of the wealthy merchants that didn't like their profits being undercut.
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
The French Revolution (French: Révolution française; 1789–99) was a period of radical social and political upheaval in French and European history. The absolute monarchy that had ruled France for centuries collapsed in three years. French society underwent an epic transformation as feudal, aristocratic and religious privileges evaporated under a sustained assault from liberal political groups and the masses on the streets.
Char. Limit said:Ahahaha, I would listen to Al Jazeera before O'Reilly!
Nicodemus said:This may be a dumb question, but are all of those people in Tahrir Square praying? It's hard to tell from the video, but it's a very impressive sight. If that crowd marches on Mubarak's home, is there any force left to oppose them?
lisab said:Not only are they praying, Christian Egyptians protesting with them are *protecting* them as they pray.
klimatos said:Do you also feel sorry for the merchants who lost their tea in Boston Harbor? Is it your opinion that the looters who boarded the ships and dumped the tea were nasty old rioters and criminals?
All revolutions have collateral damage.
Evo said:Let's be real here, there is no love between arabs and jews.
lisab said:Not only are they praying, Christian Egyptians protesting with them are *protecting* them as they pray.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ands-protect-Muslims-pray-Cairo-protests.html
lisab said:So how would you have them get rid of their government? Writing letters to the editor? Carrying signs outside of the Presidential Palace?
lisab said:I like your posts, WhoWee, even if I disagree with most of them. But you're coming off as a bit of an Eeyore on this issue.
DevilsAvocado said:This is insane. We cannot talk about democracy and liberty in a trustworthy way – and at same time supporting a brutal dictator with scandalous "Nazi methods". It just doesn’t work.
We have seen homemade "global conspiracy theories" in this thread, which at best is 'uproarious': All global news media BBC, CNN, etc, and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, and President Barack Obama, and senior United States Senator John Kerry, and senior United States Senator John McCain, and the Chancellor of Germany Angela Merkel, and the President of the French Republic Nicolas Sarkozy, and the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom David Cameron, etc, etc – are all together in an "Global (communist?) Islamic Revolution"? In close hands with the Supreme Leader of Iran Ali Khamenei...?
Lacy33 said:Oh Mr. Avocado... Please give that lady in your art work there a jacket please!
You can never say "all", which is why I didn't. My mother was born and raised in Algeria, my uncle was kidnapped in Libya and held as a political prisoner, so even though we are neither Arab nor Jewish (I still don't get why the need to differeniate Jewish), I still have some insight into the thinking of people in the Middle East.DevilsAvocado said:Agree, but does this count for all Arabs and Jews?
Lacy33 said:we are brothers and sisters. We share some same genes from the fathers side.
Evo said:You can never say "all", which is why I didn't. My mother was born and raised in Algeria, my uncle was kidnapped in Libya and held as a political prisoner, so even though we are neither Arab nor Jewish (I still don't get why the need to differeniate Jewish), I still have some insight into the thinking of people in the Middle East.
DevilsAvocado said:Can we split that "new award"??
Nicodemus said:This may be a dumb question, but are all of those people in Tahrir Square praying? It's hard to tell from the video, but it's a very impressive sight.
Lacy33 said:Avocado! Get your stick out of the soup! And if you get an infraction today, I swear I will hunt you down and make you eat my cholent!
turbo-1 said:The pro-democracy protests were remarkably peaceful, and included men, women, and children of all ages. The "pro Mubarak" faction were bussed/trucked in and they had camels, horses, whips and other weapons. Is there any any reasonable deniability that would absolve Mubarak from complicity in the suppression of the pro-democracy protests? I'd like to see it, apart from Eqyptian state television that blames foreign journalists for all the the conflict.
Obama addressing Mubarak is a 180 degree shift in US foreign policy? Could you please explain? In what time frame do you mean - the last two years?humanino said:... the 180 degrees shift in US foreign policy in the middle east (one of the possible interpretations of the prize), which the current administration has certainly not always sustained, but at least did recently in the direct address to Mubarak.
lisab said:Not only are they praying, Christian Egyptians protesting with them are *protecting* them as they pray.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ands-protect-Muslims-pray-Cairo-protests.html
I had in my mind a 180 degrees with respect to the previous policy, before his administration altogether, and in particular w.r.t. GWB. That is a relevant ingredient in Obama's peace prize (as sad as it is to admit it). For instance, France's minister of foreign affairs officially declared their opposition to Tunisia Jasmine Revolution. I have not seen the US administration commit such faux pas.mheslep said:Obama addressing Mubarak is a 180 degree shift in US foreign policy? Could you please explain? In what time frame do you mean - the last two years?
GWB? Bush spoke out in favor of democracy in the Middle East - aggressively so, and often, though not continuously. Sec of State Rice went to Cairo and gave a speech doing the same. I'll provide references if you like. So I'm not clear what you mean.humanino said:I had in my mind a 180 degrees with respect to the previous policy, before his administration altogether, and in particular w.r.t. GWB. That is a relevant ingredient in Obama's peace prize (as sad as it is to admit it). ...
mheslep said:GWB? Bush spoke out in favor of democracy in the Middle East - aggressively so, and often, though not continuously. Sec of State Rice went to Cairo and gave a speech doing the same. I'll provide references if you like. So I'm not clear what you mean.
For that matter, note also that nobody ever threw a shoe at Obama.the speech would attempt to mend the United States' relations with the Muslim world, which he wrote were "severely damaged" during the presidency of GWB
I thought we referring in particular to events in Egypt, and in particular there to what degree have various administrations supported "people taking to the streets."humanino said:If you do not see any shift in the US administration foreign policy in the Middle East between GWB and Obama, ...
WhoWee said:In the context of Egypt, I have to wonder how many people were motivated by [...] the speech by Obama [...] to take to the streets?
humanino said:I was actually wondering about that, but I thought I would not post it here because some may feel this is too much attributing to him. I am sure Vanadium knows that history is made by tens or hundreds of thousands of individuals, while history books remember only a few leaders. The reason I was thinking about this is rather in terms of Obama's prize as an incentive to pursue the 180 degrees shift in US foreign policy in the middle east (one of the possible interpretations of the prize),
http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2004/June/20040629081619frllehctim0.1081812.htmlPresident GW Bush said:I believe that freedom is the future of the Middle East, because I believe that freedom is the future of all humanity. And the historic achievement of democracy in the broader Middle East will be a victory shared by all. Millions who now live in oppression and want will finally have a chance to provide for their families and lead hopeful lives.
...
Western nations, including my own, want to be helpful in the democratic progress of the Middle East, yet we know there are suspicions, rooted in centuries of conflict and colonialism. And in the last 60 years, many in the West have added to this distrust by excusing tyranny in the region, hoping to purchase stability at the price of liberty. But it did not serve the people of the Middle East to betray their hope of freedom. And it has not made Western nations more secure to ignore the cycle of dictatorship and extremism. Instead we have seen the malice grow deeper, and the violence spread, until both have appeared on the streets of our own cities. Some types of hatred will never be appeased; they must be opposed and discredited and defeated by a hopeful alternative -- and that alternative is freedom.
...
The rise of Iraqi democracy is bringing hope to reformers across the Middle East, and sending a very different message to Teheran and Damascus
...
Thank you, and God bless the good people of Turkey.
Secretary Rice said:Ladies and Gentlemen: In our world today, a growing number of men and women are securing their liberty.
And as these people gain the power to choose, they create democratic governments to protect their natural rights.
We should all look to a future when every government respects the will of its citizens -- because the ideal of democracy is universal.
For 60 years, the United States pursued stability at the expense of democracy in the Middle East -- and we achieved neither.
Now, we are taking a different course. We are supporting the democratic aspirations of all people.
As President Bush said in his Second Inaugural Address: “America will not impose our style of government on the unwilling. Our goal instead is to help others find their own voice, attain their own freedom, and make their own way.
...
Here in the Middle East, the long hopeful process of democratic change is now beginning to unfold.
Millions of people are demanding freedom for themselves and democracy for their countries.
To these courageous men and women, I say today: All free nations will stand with you as you secure the blessings of your own liberty.