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working conditions in Dubai
http://www.vbs.tv/watch/vbs-news/the-slaves-of-dubai
http://www.vbs.tv/watch/vbs-news/the-slaves-of-dubai
MrQuarky said:What Exactly Is Happening In the Arab/Persian World?
They are fighting to gain rights and the people in Wisconsin are fighting to stop their rights from being taken away.
"We Stand With You as You Stood With Us": Statement to Workers of Wisconsin by Kamal Abbas of Egypt's Centre for Trade Unions and Workers Services.
The Arab world is fed up with The United States supporting dictators, which prevents democracy in the region, and ensures that The United States keeps control over the oil.
"One of the greatest material prizes in world history": U.S. State Department.
alt said:I didn't think that the Arab / Islamic world had a penchant for democracy.
Char. Limit said:Most of the world doesn't. Really, democracy is NOT the norm in the world, no matter how much we seem to think it is. Sometimes people just prefer the security of a dictatorship or a monarchy to the liberty and freedom of a democracy. And I don't blame them, because in these parts of the world, democracies tend to be dangerous.
AtomicJoe said:Well we have a democracy in the UK and USA etc... however any idea that it represents the will of the people is somewhat fanciful, it is big business which is pulling the strings in the background.
MrQuarky said:The Arab world is fed up with The United States supporting dictators, which prevents democracy in the region, and ensures that The United States keeps control over the oil.
WhoWee said:http://www.voanews.com/english/news...rces-Kill-7-Protesters-in-Homs-120052389.html
"Human rights groups say more than 200 people have been killed during the government's crackdown on protests. "
alt said:A terrible waste of life. But what are they protesting for ? Change. Change of what ? At the end of the day, they'll end up with replacement of one regime by another.
Democracy and militant Islam don't go hand in hand. Char Limits post (1266) above, is very relevant here.
alt said:Democracy and militant Islam don't go hand in hand.
HossamCFD said:Militant Islam ?! Are you confusing Syria with Iran ? or am I missing something here ?
Ihab Keheal, head of the justice department’s medical examiner’s office in the Gaza Strip, has stated that examinations conducted by his office have unveiled evidence indicating that the Israeli army used white phosphorous and other internationally prohibited weapons in its latest operation in Gaza.
Making his comments in a press statement released Monday, Keheal said that the bodies of Palestinians killed in the latest escalations were torn apart and charred to the extent that they were barely recognizable.
MrQuarky said:They are fighting to gain rights and the people in Wisconsin are fighting to stop their rights from being taken away.
The Arab world is fed up with The United States supporting dictators, which prevents democracy in the region, and ensures that The United States keeps control over the oil.
"One of the greatest material prizes in world history": U.S. State Department.
I agree with this part and alt when he/she isn't talking about all muslims being fundies. I think that you and alt are spot on about "The Masters of Mankind".AtomicJoe said:however any idea that it represents the will of the people is somewhat fanciful, it is big business which is pulling the strings in the background.
MrQuarky said:OK after that big generic post, which I'm sure most people on here already know about, but it is worth hearing it put like that from time to time, lest we forget. I would just like to add a specific point that the Arab world doesn't mean the few "freedom go to hell" muslims that you see on the western media.
I agree with this part and alt when he/she isn't talking about all muslims being fundies. I think that you and alt are spot on about "The Masters of Mankind".
MrQuarky said:Ok let's call it a polyarchy
The United States is not a democracy - and has never been intended to be a democracy. It's what's called a polyarchy. A polyarchy is one in which a small sector of the population is in control of essential decision-making for the economy, the political system, the cultural system and so on. And the rest of the population is supposed to be passive and acquiescent. They are supposed to cede democracy to the elite elements who call themselves (rather) modestly the "responsible men". "We are the responsible men and we take care of the affairs of the world." The rest are sometimes called "the bewildered herd". I'm quoting Walter Lippman, the leading public intellectual of the 20th century. This goes right back to the constitutional system. The system was designed that way... It's not exactly what you learn in school. But if you read the debates of the Constitutional Convention, which are much more revealing than the published documents, you find that the main framer, James Madison (1751-1836), who was very lucid and intelligent, understood all this very well. He was a democrat. He wanted to have a kind of democracy in which the primary role of government - I am quoting now - "is to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority."
Yes I'm a fan of Noam Chomsky and I intend to watch more Bertrand Russell and Howard Zinn.
I think Madison's words may be grossly misunderstood here. He was referring to the "opulent", as well as others, being protected from oppression by a majority, not being given the power to rule others.alt said:Hi MrQ;
Yes, it's certainly worth hearing it put like that from time to time. To my mind though, polyarchy is still a layer just below plutocracy, else, whom do the polyarchs serve, if not those most wealthy (powerful).
Even Madison, as you quoted, got it;
.. to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority."
Al68 said:I think Madison's words may be grossly misunderstood here. He was referring to the "opulent", as well as others, being protected from oppression by a majority, not being given the power to rule others.
Chomsky and others seem to be very confused about the difference between people (including the rich) maintaining control of their own (honestly obtained) resources and the rich ruling others by force. The former is just natural liberty as understood by students of The Enlightenment like Madison, while the latter is polyarchy (or oligarchy).
There is no reason for intelligent people to pretend they are oblivious to the difference, or to fraudulently equate the two.
Yeah that polyarchy bit was a response to AtomicJoe who said we had democracy in the UK and US. To be honest I just call them the puppet masters and the puppets most of the time. But its nice to have some fancy words sometimes. ;)alt said:To my mind though, polyarchy is still a layer just below plutocracy, else, whom do the polyarchs serve, if not those most wealthy (powerful).
Hmmm I don't know. A few years ago I might have agreed with you, but now I'm not so sure. As for the 'muslim fundies' that was just short for muslim fundamentalists.alt said:But let's be honest - most, perhaps all Muslims would choose the strictures of their faith above anything else. PS - I don't understand the 'muslims being fundies' bit.
I would love to be able to post one link or one book that explains everything. But that's not how these things work. It takes a huge amount of time, thinking, learning, reading, studying etc., and no one is going to do it for you. Of course there are barriers set up, but it just takes time and effort to get past them. You live in a free society and because of the rights that others have won, you can view declassified documents, Wikileaks cables, the debates of the Constitutional Convention etc., all kinds of things. But to be honest, from reading some of your posts, I think you might be happier just reading some anti-union propaganda instead. I hope you prove me wrong though.WhoWee said:Care to provide support?
MrQuarky said:I would love to be able to post one link or one book that explains everything. But that's not how these things work. It takes a huge amount of time, thinking, learning, reading, studying etc., and no one is going to do it for you. Of course there are barriers set up, but it just takes time and effort to get past them. You live in a free society and because of the rights that others have won, you can view declassified documents, Wikileaks cables, the debates of the Constitutional Convention etc., all kinds of things. But to be honest, from reading some of your posts, I think you might be happier just reading some anti-union propaganda instead. I hope you prove me wrong though.
If you make a statement as truth, you must back it up with an aceptable, reputable, well known source. I suggest you read the guidelines for posting in this forum, the thread is stickied at the top of the P&WA forum.MrQuarky said:I would love to be able to post one link or one book that explains everything. But that's not how these things work. It takes a huge amount of time, thinking, learning, reading, studying etc., and no one is going to do it for you. Of course there are barriers set up, but it just takes time and effort to get past them. You live in a free society and because of the rights that others have won, you can view declassified documents, Wikileaks cables, the debates of the Constitutional Convention etc., all kinds of things. But to be honest, from reading some of your posts, I think you might be happier just reading some anti-union propaganda instead. I hope you prove me wrong though.