What Exactly Is Happening In the Arab/Persian World?

[Astronuc]

Quiet Acts of Protest on a Noisy Day
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/02/world/middleeast/02scene.html

Hundreds of thousands of his fellow Egyptians, brimming with confidence after days of protest, traveled like pilgrims to gather at Tahrir, or Liberation, Square, to speak freely and to be heard.

They said that President Hosni Mubarak had never listened to their complaints, aspirations or opinions. So on Tuesday they made noise, carrying banners, painting their faces and singing their slogans.
. . . .

This is hopeful.

 

[nismaratwork]

Quiet Acts of Protest on a Noisy Day
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/02/world/middleeast/02scene.html
This is hopeful.

Turn on CNN... you can put that hope aside now. It's running street war in Tahrir square between a growing mass of pro and anti Mubarak protesters.

According to Ben Wedemen as I type this, he's saying the pro-Mubarak supporters have begun to retreat having been seriously hurt.

This is likely to serve as a means to inflame the passions of the anti-Mubarak protesters, especially as there MUST be some who will die today, given the blood and rocks, knives and cudgels. This is an absolute disaster.

 

[Astronuc]

People have to learn to deal with differences without resorting to violence. (just restating the exceedingly obvious)


Meanwhile - Syria Protests Set for Feb. 5: Will the 'Day of Rage' Mirror Egypt and Tunisia?
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/31/syria-protests-set-for-feb-5-will-the-day-of-rage-mirror-eg/

This follows events in Jordan where King Adullah II dismissed the cabinet.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-jordan-cabinet-20110202,0,1165950.story


So democracy may be gathering momentum.

Next would be peaceful reconciliation between Shia and Sunni communities.

Salām سَلاَمٌ

 

[nismaratwork]

People have to learn to deal with differences without resorting to violence. (just restating the exceedingly obvious)

It seems you still need to say it, as the lesson still hasn't been learned. There will always be a need for people to call to violence, but there are always plenty of them. It's a lot harder to sue for peace in a peaceful manner... after many days of protesting, hunger... people break.

It sounds as though the plainclothes polizei are in the pro-mubarak crowd, and Anderson Cooper was apparently chased out by the crowd... the "pro-mubarak" group is anti-media... the anti are protecting media. Now the people, however influenced by police are attacking journalists?... this is never a good sign, and in Egypt?!

 

[WhoWee]

Have there been any reports or estimates published as to the logistics of the food supply? Given the population, I assume groceries must be delivered several times per week into the city - perhaps the military should ensure delivery of foods to markets - as long as protests remain peaceful?

 

[WhoWee]

It sounds as though the plainclothes polizei are in the pro-mubarak crowd, and Anderson Cooper was apparently chased out by the crowd... the "pro-mubarak" group is anti-media... the anti are protecting media. Now the people, however influenced by police are attacking journalists?... this is never a good sign, and in Egypt?!

Perhaps they know his lineage?

 

[nismaratwork]

Perhaps they know his lineage?

Heh... trust you to make me laugh in this thread, while Egypt goes to hell.

It seems that AlJazeera, and now Anderson Cooper are reporting that the pro-"stability" demonstrators have:

Police ID badges (maybe...)
Tear gas (saw that on video)
Signs made with care and time (according to CNN)
Organized and began this fight by attacking the CNN crew to some extent.

It's being theorized that, as this is clearly organized by the regime, that it may not be about intimidating the more numerous anti-Mubarak demonstrators, but rather to force the army into action.

Fortunately, the military is doing nothing, which I realize is upsetting some on TV, but is better than the alternative.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

*** VIOLENT CHAOS IN TAHRIR SQUARE! ***

People are digging up stones! Injured protesters are bleeding from their heads!

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Fortunately, the military is doing nothing, which I realize is upsetting some on TV, but is better than the alternative.

Plan B = Hosni Mubarak goes to hell.

 

[WhoWee]

Did you see the people charging their camels through the crowd?

 

[DevilsAvocado]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/03/world/middleeast/03yemen.html"

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Did you see the people charging their camels through the crowd?

THIS IS FKN CRAZY – *CAMELS* !

 

[DevilsAvocado]

... oh no, the military is moving in ... gunshots ...

 

[nismaratwork]

Did you see the people charging their camels through the crowd?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that there are Arabs around the world experiencing a collective face-palm moment there.Edit:

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/0...-for-another-day-of-protests/?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

Egypt crisis: Army believed to be entering square; Mubarak supporters ring square; gunfire heard

One way or another, and I don't think we can know what it will be... this is a turning point in these affairs.

 

[nismaratwork]

There's that lion you warned about Lacy... my what big teeth he has to mix metaphors.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

They’re overturning a military vehicle!

 

[nismaratwork]

They’re overturning a military vehicle!

Yeah... that won't end well. You can overturn an APC or two, but people vs. good tanks is not a meaningful contest if the soldiers become desperate.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

*** THE PRO-MUBARAK GANG Is Moving Forward TO TAHRIR SQUARE! ****

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Yeah... that won't end well. You can overturn an APC or two, but people vs. good tanks is not a meaningful contest if the soldiers become desperate.

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[Lacy33]

There's that lion you warned about Lacy... my what big teeth he has to mix metaphors.

Charity saves one from death!
Now is the time to give charity. Put ones money where ones mouth is and hire a dentist to jerk the teeth out of that lions mouth NOW!

please
i am a magot
i am a worm
i am the dirt

 

[DevilsAvocado]

THIS is the FKN HOSNI MUBARAK FAULT *AND NO ONE ELSE* HE COULD HAVE STEPPED DOWN AND LET THE VICE PRESIDENT GOVERN EGYPT UNTIL NEXT ELECTION!

 

[Lacy33]

It's OK, It's OK... Shhhh!...

 

[nismaratwork]

That is a lot of molotov cocktails, and all being thrown by the pro-mubarak groups. Anderson Cooper is saying the anti-Mubarak forces are essentially trapped in Tahrir sq.

This could be a slaughter.

 

[mugaliens]

I spent two days catching up with what's really going on in the region, not only with Egypt, but with Assyria, Tunisia, Jordon, Yemen, etc. Who's in charge, what they've been doing up until now, what they are doing (if anything) in response to what's been going on in Egypt, what their country's opposition movement(s) are saying...

It's a veritable powder keg, and the spark may have fizzled, but it's not out yet.

 

[mugaliens]

Did you see the people charging their camels through the crowd?

They're a lot more prevalent throughout the middle east than most people realize. We'd often see then standing around tents in less populated areas.

 

[Proton Soup]

THIS is the FKN HOSNI MUBARAK FAULT *AND NO ONE ELSE* HE COULD HAVE STEPPED DOWN AND LET THE VICE PRESIDENT GOVERN EGYPT UNTIL NEXT ELECTION!

they don't want Suleiman, either, he's a Mubarak goon. the VP is new and was their intelligence agency officer before this began. it would be slightly better, but maybe not enough to calm things down.

 

[Hurkyl]

People have to learn to deal with differences without resorting to violence. (just restating the exceedingly obvious)

If I may make a modification:

People have to learn to deal with differences without resorting to violence prematurely.​

 

[DevilsAvocado]

It's OK, It's OK... Shhhh!...

This could be a slaughter.

they don't want Suleiman, either, he's a Mubarak goon. the VP is new and was their intelligence agency officer before this began. it would be slightly better, but maybe not enough to calm things down.

As always, I agree with you guys, let’s calm down and use our brains. You are right PS, but after this – who in h*ll could ever trust Mubarak again (in coming "elections")?? If he can rig this in front of the world media, and get away with it – he could rig anything. There is no 'escape route' in current situation...

What rigging!? You might say...

Well, look at what has happened: First; large demonstrations and M tries to scare them with the Gestapo Polizei. It didn’t work. Second; withdraw the Gestapo and let prisoners out on the streets to create criminal anarchy, to scare them. It didn’t work. Third; gather the "pro-stability" gang to 'demonstrate' in favor for M, and equip them with Molotov cocktails, camels and horses to "calm things down". It didn’t work.

The most stupid "explanation" thus far from one of the "pro-stability-demonstrators":

– These horsemen where not from the pro-Mubarak side, they were tourist guides out of work!​

Let’s see... the military has rigorous control on everyone entering the Tahrir Square... and then comes a gang of camels, horses and unemployed tourist guides who also want to have their say in on the matter...

– Okay guys! You can do this as long as these animals don’t sh*t in the square!​

This is just too utterly dumb, it doesn’t work any longer, and the world is watching...

 

[Lacy33]

As always, I agree with you guys, let’s calm down and use our brains. You are right PS, but after this – who in h*ll could ever trust Mubarak again (in coming "elections")?? If he can rig this in front of the world media, and get away with it – he could rig anything. There is no 'escape route' in current situation...

What rigging!? You might say...

Well, look at what has happened: First; large demonstrations and M tries to scare them with the Gestapo Polizei. It didn’t work. Second; withdraw the Gestapo and let prisoners out on the streets to create criminal anarchy, to scare them. It didn’t work. Third; gather the "pro-stability" gang to 'demonstrate' in favor for M, and equip them with Molotov cocktails, camels and horses to "calm things down". It didn’t work.

The most stupid "explanation" thus far from one of the "pro-stability-demonstrators":

– These horsemen where not from the pro-Mubarak side, they were tourist guides out of work!​

Let’s see... the military has rigorous control on everyone entering the Tahrir Square... and then comes a gang of camels, horses and unemployed tourist guides who also want to have their say in on the matter...

– Okay guys! You can do this as long as these animals don’t sh*t in the square!​

This is just too utterly dumb, it doesn’t work any longer, and the world is watching...

I never said this before to anyone. But your'e cute when your mad. Sadly..

 

[turbo]

According to Al Jazeera, VP Suleiman says that there will be no talks with the opposition until the protests stop. The protesters would have to be pretty naive to accept that "deal".

 

[Evo]

According to Al Jazeera, VP Suleiman says that there will be no talks with the opposition until the protests stop. The protesters would have to be pretty naive to accept that "deal".

Who is the opposition? Has someone come forward to claim that the rioters are their supporters? That is what I find so bizarre, rioters without a plan.

twitter "let's all gather for a riot and demand mubarek step down"
twitter "yeah!"
twitter "uhm, so what do we do now?"

 

[Lacy33]

You're right, right Evo. Where is all this communication that is suppose to be going on between the "great leadership and the people?
Why don't they communicate with the people?
Evo, please call that that that,. you know who I'm talking about. I forget his name.

 

[turbo]

ElBaradei would be an acceptable spokesperson, as near as I can tell. Mubarak has crushed opposition parties ruthlessly for 30 years, so it's unsurprising that the the opposition lacks structure and resources. Oppose Mubarak and end up dead or imprisoned, unless you have the resources to get out of Egypt and into exile. Things have been bleak.

 

[nismaratwork]

If I may make a modification:

People have to learn to deal with differences without resorting to violence prematurely.​

I would add, "ineffectively". I don't know that I've seen such a pointless display of violence in a long time, on the part of these goons tossing petrol bombs. Clearly this "strategy" has failed... time to move on. Effective violence can be forgiven, or at least understood, but everything else is mayhem and cruelty.

 

[WhoWee]

Who is the opposition? Has someone come forward to claim that the rioters are their supporters? That is what I find so bizarre, rioters without a plan.

I heard an interview earlier with a 24 year old Egyptian on the street. He said the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood were giving talks and organizing protestors. But, who really knows?

Another story about the Muslim Brotherhood:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/atlantic/20110131/cm_atlantic/themuslimbrotherhoodthefutureofegypt6780