What Exactly Is Happening In the Arab/Persian World?

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In summary, the protests in Egypt are continuing and there are reports of violence and fires. The situation is not looking good for the government.
  • #526


It appears that the army is poised to keep control as Mubarak (and perhaps more of his party) steps down. If so, let's hope for a smooth transition.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110210/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_egypt;_ylt=AsnRGBLrPYO0Qn5dcwzI6AWs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTFoaWhpYmtsBHBvcwMxNwRzZWMDYWNjb3JkaW9uX3RvcF9zdG9yaWVzBHNsawNlZ3lwdGFybXl0YWs-
 
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  • #527


the irony of Mubarak leaving power on the anniversary of the Iranian Revolution of 1979...
 
  • #528


Greg Bernhardt said:
the irony of Mubarak leaving power on the anniversary of the Iranian Revolution of 1979...
Wow! I didn't catch that. Let's hope for a more faith-neutral result. Only 10% of Egyptians are Christians, but Christian and Muslim protesters alike have defended one another from attack during their respective prayer services. That's a reassuring pattern.
 
  • #529


VICTORY! VICTORY! VICTORY! VICTORY! VICTORY! VICTORY!
 
  • #530


i'm curbing my enthusiasm for now. Suleiman is old regime, and was set up as VP early in the situation. any success going forward depends entirely on what he allows to happen.
 
  • #531


DevilsAvocado said:
VICTORY! VICTORY! VICTORY! VICTORY! VICTORY! VICTORY!
I'm hoping this might be the beginning of something even larger. Corruption speaking that is. However I remember Kent State very vividly.
 
  • #532


Proton Soup said:
i'm curbing my enthusiasm for now. Suleiman is old regime, and was set up as VP early in the situation. any success going forward depends entirely on what he allows to happen.
I'm with you on this one. Cautious hopefulness (as opposed to optimism) is my mind-set right now. Too many party leaders have been raping the wealth of Egypt for too long to willingly give up their power. Still, turning out Mubarak (if it happens) would be a step in the right direction as long as the transitional government embraces honest democratic reforms and resists the temptation to impose permanent military rule.
 
  • #533
DNI Clapper said some interesting things about the Muslim Brotherhood during testimony. Please watch both videos.

First some info on Clapper:


Today he said:
http://nation.foxnews.com/culture/2011/02/10/obamas-intel-chief-muslim-brotherhood-non-violent-secular-group#

""The term 'Muslim Brotherhood'...is an umbrella term for a variety of movements, in the case of Egypt, a very heterogeneous group, largely secular, which has eschewed violence and has decried Al Qaeda as a perversion of Islam," Clapper said. "They have pursued social ends, a betterment of the political order in Egypt, et cetera...In other countries, there are also chapters or franchises of the Muslim Brotherhood, but there is no overarching agenda, particularly in pursuit of violence, at least internationally.""
 
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  • #534


Mubarak just refused to step down immediately (again). I have a feeling the people protesting in Tarhir Square won't like that very much.
 
  • #535


Please stay calm people. :frown:
 
  • #536


I’m completely stunned... "...until the elections in September..."

:bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye:


This man needs help
 
  • #537


DevilsAvocado said:
I’m completely stunned... "...until the elections in September..."

:bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye:


This man needs help
So, what was the agreement the news reported that was going to make the Egytian people happy?? What were the negotiations with the army?
 
  • #538


DevilsAvocado said:
I’m completely stunned... "...until the elections in September..."

:bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye:


This man needs help

I know. The people there need to stay calm and I don't know what will help becasue he is babbling and no one is listening. The crowd is starting up.:frown:
 
  • #539


DevilsAvocado said:
I’m completely stunned... "...until the elections in September..."

:bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye:


This man needs help
What I'd like to say would get me banned I'm afraid.
 
  • #540


Power to the People. It's not over until it's over. Look Out!
 
  • #541


"I will not separate myself from the soil until I am buried underneath." - Hosni Mubarak

Why do I get the feeling that a lot of people would be fine with burying him right now?
 
  • #542


WhoWee said:
""The term 'Muslim Brotherhood'...is an umbrella term for a variety of movements, in the case of Egypt, a very heterogeneous group, largely secular, which has eschewed violence and has decried Al Qaeda as a perversion of Islam," Clapper said. "They have pursued social ends, a betterment of the political order in Egypt, et cetera...In other countries, there are also chapters or franchises of the Muslim Brotherhood, but there is no overarching agenda, particularly in pursuit of violence, at least internationally.""
I think this is not terribly inaccurate - perhaps stated with a little more confidence than would be conveyed in internal communications. Also, the "largely secular" part could be a bit of a fudge. I've listened to a couple of Egypt experts in interviews over the past few weeks, and the consensus seems to be that the make up of the MB is somewhat unknown. My understanding is that there is believed to be at least a significant secular minority and a significant radical minority, but much more than that is hard to tell, and where exactly the centers of power are within that spectrum is harder still to determine.

This breadth of ideology, from the seemigly secular to the seemingly radical, is illustrated pretty well, for instance, in the following two recent stories:

1. http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=235393
A senior member of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood has expressed gratitude to the Leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei for his support of the Egyptian revolution.

Kamal al-Halbavi made the remark in an interview with the state-funded BBC Persian on Sunday night.

Halbavi further expressed hope that Egypt would have “a good government, like the Iranian government, and a good president like Mr. Ahmadinejad, who is very brave.”

2. http://www.eurasiareview.com/world-news/africa/muslim-brotherhood-rejects-khamenei-calls-for-iran-style-islamic-state-05022011/
Egypt’s main opposition party, the Muslim Brotherhood, have rejected calls by Iran’s Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei for an Islamic Revolution similar to the Iranian revolution of 1979 to be established in Egypt.

“The MB regards the revolution as the Egyptian People’s Revolution not an Islamic Revolution” said a statement published on the Muslim Brotherhood’s official website just hours after Khamenei’s remarks on Friday, while “asserting that the Egyptian People’s Revolution includes Muslims, Christians, from all sects and political.”

On Friday and during Friday prayers in Tehran, Iran’s supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei quickly seized the opportunity to exploit the Egyptian uprising and called for an Islamic state to be installed in Egypt. Khamenei said that the recent wave of Arab revolts was an “earthquake” triggered by the Islamic Revolution in 1979.
 
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  • #543


Gokul43201 said:
I think this is not terribly inaccurate - perhaps stated with a little more confidence than would be conveyed in internal communications. Also, the "largely secular" part could be a bit of a fudge. I've listened to a couple of Egypt experts in interviews over the past few weeks, and the consensus seems to be that the make up of the MB is somewhat unknown. My understanding is that there is believed to be at least a significant secular minority and a significant radical minority, but much more than that is hard to tell, and where exactly the centers of power are within that spectrum is harder still to determine.

This breadth of ideology, from the seemigly secular to the seemingly radical, is illustrated pretty well, for instance, in the following two recent stories:

1. http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=235393

2. http://www.eurasiareview.com/world-news/africa/muslim-brotherhood-rejects-khamenei-calls-for-iran-style-islamic-state-05022011/

If you haven't done so already, please watch the video clip of Clapper's testimony.
 
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  • #544


Evo said:
So, what was the agreement the news reported that was going to make the Egytian people happy?? What were the negotiations with the army?

Unless there was severe errors in the translation, this speech will go to history as the most "out of touch" ever. He has "one version of reality" that must be surreal too millions of Egyptians (and large part of the world).

High official said that he would step down, CIA was saying the same thing, Obama talked (and looked) like this was now over... and his speech was shown on the official Egypt channel...


... the first speech in world history sent from "another planet" ... ? :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye:
 
  • #545


Lacy33 said:
I know. The people there need to stay calm and I don't know what will help becasue he is babbling and no one is listening. The crowd is starting up.:frown:

Agree, this is a catastrophe.
 
  • #547


dlgoff said:
What I'd like to say would get me banned I'm afraid.

Yup.
 
  • #548


Wouldn't now be the time to eliminate U.S. aid to turn the table on Mubarak? Tell Egypt we'll consider giving aid again if we think you worthy?
 
  • #549
WhoWee said:
If you haven't done so already, please watch the video clip of Clapper's testimony.

http://nation.foxnews.com/culture/2011/02/10/obamas-intel-chief-muslim-brotherhood-non-violent-secular-group

MB's public statements are against al qaeda

http://www.ikhwanweb.com/articles.php?pid=86
 
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  • #550
  • #551


dlgoff said:
Wouldn't now be the time to eliminate U.S. aid to turn the table on Mubarak? Tell Egypt we'll consider giving aid again if we think you worthy?

I’ve been thinking the same for some time. Problem: The King of Saudi Arabia, Abdullah bin Abdul-Aziz has promised to "fill the gap". He doesn’t have any spare parts to M1 Abrams and F-16, but he has $$$$$.

Worst scenario: Mubarak and King Abdullah decides to 'change' Egypt to 'satisfy' the Muslim Brotherhood... without involvement of U.S.


EDIT:
VP is also transmitting from another planet.
 
  • #552


DevilsAvocado said:
I’ve been thinking the same for some time. Problem: The King of Saudi Arabia, Abdullah bin Abdul-Aziz has promised to "fill the gap". He doesn’t have any spare parts to M1 Abrams and F-16, but he has $$$$$.

Worst scenario: Mubarak and King Abdullah decides to 'change' Egypt to 'satisfy' the Muslim Brotherhood... without involvement of U.S.


EDIT:
VP is also transmitting from another planet.

If I faint within the next hour, it's Your fault. :bugeye:
 
  • #553


DevilsAvocado said:
I’ve been thinking the same for some time. Problem: The King of Saudi Arabia, Abdullah bin Abdul-Aziz has promised to "fill the gap". He doesn’t have any spare parts to M1 Abrams and F-16, but he has $$$$$.

Worst scenario: Mubarak and King Abdullah decides to 'change' Egypt to 'satisfy' the Muslim Brotherhood... without involvement of U.S.


EDIT:
VP is also transmitting from another planet.

i'm not sure why the Muslim Brotherhood keeps coming up as a bogeyman. lots of FUD is delivered, but no real evidence other than the fact that they've got "muslim" in their name.
 
  • #554


Wolfe Blitzer to man on phone.. "So who is in charge of Egypt right now.?"
Man on phone (ambassader) " The president who has given all power to the VP!" :smile: :bugeye: :cry:

please pardon sp.
 
  • #555


Proton Soup said:
i'm not sure why the Muslim Brotherhood keeps coming up as a bogeyman. lots of FUD is delivered, but no real evidence other than the fact that they've got "muslim" in their name.

This might be why?:
http://middleeast.about.com/od/egypt/a/me081006a.htm

"The attackers included four enlisted men, an army major and a lieutenant. The major and two enlisted men were killed in the swarm around the reviewing stand, once other members of the military realized what was taking place. The rest were arrested. The attackers would eventually come to be identified as Islamist nationalists associated with the Muslim Brotherhood under the name of Islamic Jihad. "
 
  • #556


Is anyone else trying to wrap loose brains around this slippery stuff?
'He is but he isn't everything except he remains in absoulte power but he gave everything else to his best friend and VP what the man was already doing anyway.' :rolleyes:
 
  • #557


WhoWee said:
This might be why?:
http://middleeast.about.com/od/egypt/a/me081006a.htm

"The attackers included four enlisted men, an army major and a lieutenant. The major and two enlisted men were killed in the swarm around the reviewing stand, once other members of the military realized what was taking place. The rest were arrested. The attackers would eventually come to be identified as Islamist nationalists associated with the Muslim Brotherhood under the name of Islamic Jihad. "

so an "offshoot"? is that like a breakaway republic?

i still don't see them rising even to the malevolence of the CIA.
 
  • #558


Proton Soup said:
so an "offshoot"? is that like a breakaway republic?

i still don't see them rising even to the malevolence of the CIA.

I find that comment interesting - in the context of this thread. Please listen to the first recording I posted earlier of DNI Clapper answering Senator Bond's questions during his confirmation hearings:



Clapper said he would have authority to override the CIA Director.
 
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  • #559


Lacy33 said:
"So who is in charge of Egypt right now?"
"The president who has given all power to the VP!"

Lacy33 said:
Is anyone else trying to wrap loose brains around this slippery stuff?


Slippery is the word, and I would add "tragicomic mumbarak-jumbo". If this wasn’t dead serious, you would guess that those two first sentences came directly from Monty Python...
 
  • #560


WhoWee said:
If you haven't done so already, please watch the video clip of Clapper's testimony.
I did - I watched both videos. What am I missing?

whowee said:
Clapper said he would have authority to override the CIA Director.
Is there something wrong with that statement? I'm not aware of the intricacies, but I thought DCI reported to DNI.
 
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