What Exactly Is Happening In the Arab/Persian World?

[FizixFreak]

"We would arm the civilians to tackle with the allied forces" that's is the latest statement by Qaddafi than what the hell was that cease fire crap?

 

[nismaratwork]

"We would arm the civilians to tackle with the allied forces" that's is the latest statement by Qaddafi than what the hell was that cease fire crap?

It was an attempt I suspect, to cause some delay in implementation of UN-1973 or, and this is also possible, it could have been real, then retracted. I'd guess the former, but it hardly matters now, Ghaddafi is finished, his children finished, and and probably the largest war-crimes tribunal upcoming since Nuremberg.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

The Mad Dog of the Middle East is soon history. Libya’s anti air force is now 'dismantled', France air force has taken out a large number of tanks, Britain air force is preparing for the most extensive operation since the Falklands. Italy, Denmark & Norway are now preparing their air force to join.

The man is finished.

Still, the GIANT NUTCASE will not give up, http://www.moneyzebra.com/business-news/gaddafi-you-will-be-defeated-as-were-hitler-and-mussolini_5144.html"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfRav0M9T5Q

@lisab & OmCheeto; For now, it get back to you later...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jqgtUrbVKA

 

[FizixFreak]

It was an attempt I suspect, to cause some delay in implementation of UN-1973 or, and this is also possible, it could have been real, then retracted. I'd guess the former, but it hardly matters now, Ghaddafi is finished, his children finished, and and probably the largest war-crimes tribunal upcoming since Nuremberg.

It was a somewhat rhetorical question i was already suspicious about the "cease fire".

Ahhh... long range bombers destroying Ghaddafi's air assets, and armour... life is good.

Its not the time for celebration..., it would be best if Qaddafi would have ran away like Mubarak but now i fear that things might even more unstable

 

[Proton Soup]

there was a US predator drone attack a few days ago in N. Waziristan, killking mostly civilians.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12769209

drones continue to hover over the area. it must be quite terrorizing.

http://www.sify.com/news/us-drones-...aziristan-news-international-ldul4fijied.html

in the meantime, relations are strained. Pakistan has pulled out of trilateral US-Afghan-Pakistani talks.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-pakistan-us-talks-20110319,0,7877091.story

 

[nismaratwork]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/03/20/libya.civil.war/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

Ahh... fond memories of 1986... Al Aziziyah is bombed again.

@Fizix: Sorry man, I can be very literal sometimes, my bad! I agree that it woudl be best if Ghaddafi ran, but he won't, not a chance. Given that reality, and given that he has to die... celebrate. The man is an absolute monster, and his children are as well, but most of all he has too much influence and money.

Remember the last time missiles/bombs hit Tripoli, the international community lost Pan Am. The only way to safety in this, is through his corpse.


@Proton Soup: It's effective sometimes, but now that we're not going after high level targets, but rather Taliban... it's pointless. We need to leave Afghanistan, thus removing the need to do this on such a regular basis. When a word like "drone" has become an adopted epithet in another language, it's time to take notice.

Now I hear talk of training and arming the Libyans... I feel that maybe we didn't learn our Blowback lesson from Afghanistan (the first time). We want Pakistan stable, but as long as we're killing civilians there on a regular basis, it's never going to happen. The best thing the USA can do for the region is LEAVE Afghanistan, now.

 

[FizixFreak]

there was a US predator drone attack a few days ago in N. Waziristan, killking mostly civilians.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12769209

drones continue to hover over the area. it must be quite terrorizing.

http://www.sify.com/news/us-drones-...aziristan-news-international-ldul4fijied.html

in the meantime, relations are strained. Pakistan has pulled out of trilateral US-Afghan-Pakistani talks.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-pakistan-us-talks-20110319,0,7877091.story

That attack was made on a tribal meeting which was held to solve the dispute about the possession of land which had valuable natural resources and it killed some 40-50 innocent people i don't live in north waziristan so even i have no idea what horror are those people going through and what rage they have inside them against America whose staregy is to first breed terrorists and then try to eliminate them producing even more terrorists in the process that is how they probably treat their "allies".

But then again it would not be unfair to blame Americans for this our government is the real culprit "big fish always eats smaller fish" its the rule of the nature only difference being that the humans are much more wicked in that manner US tried diligently to rescue their citizen from Pakistan but what is our government doing about our own civilians that are being blown up in the name of "war on terror" nothing absolutely nothing they are letting others bully them around so they are the ones who should blamed for all this if we had monkeys running our government we would be in much better conditions at-least the American government works for the well being of their own people but not our leaders they would loans from IMF to charted plains to visit other countries and to meet their royal expenses while having billions of dollars in Swiss banks in their possession

May be i got a little carried away their and but my intent was not to offend any American on this forum i hope others can see that.

 

[drankin]

That attack was made on a tribal meeting which was held to solve the dispute about the possession of land which had valuable natural resources and it killed some 40-50 innocent people i don't live in north waziristan so even i have no idea what horror are those people going through and what rage they have inside them against America whose staregy is to first breed terrorists and then try to eliminate them producing even more terrorists in the process that is how they probably treat their "allies".

But then again it would not be unfair to blame Americans for this our government is the real culprit "big fish always eats smaller fish" its the rule of the nature only difference being that the humans are much more wicked in that manner US tried diligently to rescue their citizen from Pakistan but what is our government doing about our own civilians that are being blown up in the name of "war on terror" nothing absolutely nothing they are letting others bully them around so they are the ones who should blamed for all this if we had monkeys running our government we would be in much better conditions at-least the American government works for the well being of their own people but not our leaders they would loans from IMF to charted plains to visit other countries and to meet their royal expenses while having billions of dollars in Swiss banks in their possession

May be i got a little carried away their and but my intent was not to offend any American on this forum i hope others can see that.

Well I've been reading about a lot of British munitions being used BTW. Anyhow.

 

[nismaratwork]

That attack was made on a tribal meeting which was held to solve the dispute about the possession of land which had valuable natural resources and it killed some 40-50 innocent people i don't live in north waziristan so even i have no idea what horror are those people going through and what rage they have inside them against America whose staregy is to first breed terrorists and then try to eliminate them producing even more terrorists in the process that is how they probably treat their "allies".

But then again it would not be unfair to blame Americans for this our government is the real culprit "big fish always eats smaller fish" its the rule of the nature only difference being that the humans are much more wicked in that manner US tried diligently to rescue their citizen from Pakistan but what is our government doing about our own civilians that are being blown up in the name of "war on terror" nothing absolutely nothing they are letting others bully them around so they are the ones who should blamed for all this if we had monkeys running our government we would be in much better conditions at-least the American government works for the well being of their own people but not our leaders they would loans from IMF to charted plains to visit other countries and to meet their royal expenses while having billions of dollars in Swiss banks in their possession

May be i got a little carried away their and but my intent was not to offend any American on this forum i hope others can see that.

Look, offended or not (I'm not) that shouldn't stop you from speaking your mind within forum rules (which you've done). Heck, there was just a big conversation about wanting more international views... well, you're giving one.

Personally, I think you're being too kind to us, but you ALSO have a very enlightened view of the regional monarchies... corrupt as hell. I think you'd also be hard pressed to find more than 1 person in 3 in the USA who would wish that Bush had never been president, or better... had never been born.

I'll just say that I no longer see how these drone strikes are doing anything except causing the potential for blowback later, and making widows and orphans. I've been clear (re: Libya for example) that if civilians have to die to end slaughter, with in limits that's a war. The "war on terror" is like the "war on drugs"... bull and a war on a concept. We're dropping hellfire missiles in Waziristan because we're targeting enemies running from Afghanistan, and rarely is it some Al Qaede operator or bomb-maker... these are targets only relevant to the war in Afghanistan.

Why we're helping to fracture Pakistani society, and kill civilians in the name of a war that should be OVER is beyond me... it's a little taste of Vietnam's lessons unlearned it seems. So, speak up Fizix, as long as you're sticking to facts and the rules, I see no reason why you couldn't start a thread.

 

[nismaratwork]

Well I've been reading about a lot of British munitions being used BTW. Anyhow.

That's just depressing... still, they use our Tomahawks and related systems... at this point the UK is only nominally a foreign entity from a security standpoint.

 

[FizixFreak]

I'll just say that I no longer see how these drone strikes are doing anything except causing the potential for blowback later, and making widows and orphans. I've been clear (re: Libya for example) that if civilians have to die to end slaughter, with in limits that's a war. The "war on terror" is like the "war on drugs"... bull and a war on a concept. We're dropping hellfire missiles in Waziristan because we're targeting enemies running from Afghanistan, and rarely is it some Al Qaede operator or bomb-maker... these are targets only relevant to the war in Afghanistan.

This is what really happens when the governments that are elected to RUN the state end up RULING the state and eventually in the thirst for absolute control they want to impose their will on other states the ones that are easily suppressed become ALLIES others are labeled as terrorists and extremists

"Of the people, for the people, by the people"

Now that's an ideology that is to good to be imposed in the world and this ideology is quite similar to the concept of governance in ISLAM but unfortunately it is not implemented on one inch of this world not even in ANY of the Islamic state i guess some things are just too good to be true some people don't see the beauty of it and some despite having everything in front of their eyes will never adapt them i am talking about the MUSLIMS yes the MUSLIMS! and that is why they or should i say we are at the bottom of the pit in every walk of life i am not telling you a story on the rise and fall of Muslims i am just trying to tell you about the defects in the "systems" on which the governance of every single state is based and those defects only lead up to what we see today.

Having an authority doesn't empowers you but instead it puts a burden on you which is to make sure the well being of your people and their happiness but it is something we don't see in the real world and we never will i think nobody can deny the fact that both that the biggest threat to man kind is MAN himself because the man sees the authority as a power not as a responsibility and that is what drives them to do what the US and other SUPER POWERS have done in their respective times in dark times they needed no excuse but now of course how can they do all that without labeling as you know what and quite ironically before this global war on terrorism began the world was much more peaceful then the present times wasn't it?

I sit here wondering whether all of this would make any sense to you most likely not but these are just my views.

 

[FizixFreak]

Well I've been reading about a lot of British munitions being used BTW. Anyhow.

I guess that you are trying to say that British weapons are being used in drone attacks well if that's so i am not even remotely surprised.

 

[nismaratwork]

This is what really happens when the governments that are elected to RUN the state end up RULING the state and eventually in the thirst for absolute control they want to impose their will on other states the ones that are easily suppressed become ALLIES others are labeled as terrorists and extremists

"Of the people, for the people, by the people"

Now that's an ideology that is to good to be imposed in the world and this ideology is quite similar to the concept of governance in ISLAM but unfortunately it is not implemented on one inch of this world not even in ANY of the Islamic state i guess some things are just too good to be true some people don't see the beauty of it and some despite having everything in front of their eyes will never adapt them i am talking about the MUSLIMS yes the MUSLIMS! and that is why they or should i say we are at the bottom of the pit in every walk of life i am not telling you a story on the rise and fall of Muslims i am just trying to tell you about the defects in the "systems" on which the governance of every single state is based and those defects only lead up to what we see today.

Having an authority doesn't empowers you but instead it puts a burden on you which is to make sure the well being of your people and their happiness but it is something we don't see in the real world and we never will i think nobody can deny the fact that both that the biggest threat to man kind is MAN himself because the man sees the authority as a power not as a responsibility and that is what drives them to do what the US and other SUPER POWERS have done in their respective times in dark times they needed no excuse but now of course how can they do all that without labeling as you know what and quite ironically before this global war on terrorism began the world was much more peaceful then the present times wasn't it?

I sit here wondering whether all of this would make any sense to you most likely not but these are just my views.

I think you'd be surprised, I understand you clearly; you strike me as neither pessimist nor optimist, just a realist. You have your ideals, but you don't see them being implemented... I think many people around the world find themselves in the same position, myself included.

 

[WhoWee]

Earlier in the thread I said to watch Russia. (my bold)

http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/-/mp/9050306/west-strikes-libya-gaddafi-forces-choke-misrata/

"Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said a U.N. resolution authorising military action in Libya resembled "medieval calls for crusades" and China stepped up criticism as Western forces prepared to switch from air strikes to air patrols."

 

[nismaratwork]

Earlier in the thread I said to watch Russia. (my bold)

http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/-/mp/9050306/west-strikes-libya-gaddafi-forces-choke-misrata/

"Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said a U.N. resolution authorising military action in Libya resembled "medieval calls for crusades" and China stepped up criticism as Western forces prepared to switch from air strikes to air patrols."

You did indeed, several times... the first I guffawed, the second not so much, and now I'm all ears.

This... is very unfortunate.

 

[nismaratwork]

This is new...

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/03/22/syria.protests/index.html?hpt=T2

Syria arrests opposition leader... it's almost as if these nations are ASKING for more trouble.

Meanwhile Yemen is an even more exciting place *heavy sarcasm* lately. I can't wait to see what kind of fanatical regime emerges from THAT rubble...

and oh yes, it seems a group of police protestors fired the Ministry of Interior building in Cairo!

*rubs temples*

This along with Christchurch, Japan, Sudan, Cote D'Ivorie, Libya, Tunisia, Bahrain... ooooh sweet aspirin.

 

[Borg]

Could be just another ploy or maybe a possibility.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/07/us-libya-congress-idUSTRE7266H720110307"

The nightly news is also reporting that two of Gaddafi's sons may have been killed by a Libyan pilot on a kamikaze mission. Strange times.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

The Mad Dog has barked again, no need for translation... "Europe"... "Glorious Victory"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dwPtIEN8iU

Maybe west should change tactics and bomb the area around the mental patient with Aripiprazole...?

 

[nismaratwork]

Could be just another ploy or maybe a possibility.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/07/us-libya-congress-idUSTRE7266H720110307"

The nightly news is also reporting that two of Gaddafi's sons may have been killed by a Libyan pilot on a kamikaze mission. Strange times.

Wow...


I thnk your last two words sum up the last few months quite nicely.

@DA: What a jerk... understatement I know.

 

[Proton Soup]

This is new...

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/03/22/syria.protests/index.html?hpt=T2

Syria arrests opposition leader... it's almost as if these nations are ASKING for more trouble.

Meanwhile Yemen is an even more exciting place *heavy sarcasm* lately. I can't wait to see what kind of fanatical regime emerges from THAT rubble...

and oh yes, it seems a group of police protestors fired the Ministry of Interior building in Cairo!

*rubs temples*

This along with Christchurch, Japan, Sudan, Cote D'Ivorie, Libya, Tunisia, Bahrain... ooooh sweet aspirin.

yeah, the libyan war makes a news diversion, so that you can go bust heads without attracting attention. israel is using it to go on some rampaging of its own right now. same as they did when they broke the gazan ceasefire in 2008 during the presidential elections. then, when news diverts away from the election, all people see is gazans firing rockets into israel.

some of our actions in pakistan may be also taking advantage of the news cycle. such is strife, eh?

 

[nismaratwork]

yeah, the libyan war makes a news diversion, so that you can go bust heads without attracting attention. israel is using it to go on some rampaging of its own right now. same as they did when they broke the gazan ceasefire in 2008 during the presidential elections. then, when news diverts away from the election, all people see is gazans firing rockets into israel.

some of our actions in pakistan may be also taking advantage of the news cycle. such is strife, eh?

Now THAT is much more realistic in my view.

 

[FizixFreak]

This is new...

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/03/22/syria.protests/index.html?hpt=T2

Syria arrests opposition leader... it's almost as if these nations are ASKING for more trouble.

Meanwhile Yemen is an even more exciting place *heavy sarcasm* lately. I can't wait to see what kind of fanatical regime emerges from THAT rubble...

and oh yes, it seems a group of police protestors fired the Ministry of Interior building in Cairo!

*rubs temples*

This along with Christchurch, Japan, Sudan, Cote D'Ivorie, Libya, Tunisia, Bahrain... ooooh sweet aspirin.

]No doubt they are asking for trouble saudi government is also expecting such an outbreak and there is no reason that they shouldn't

http://www.utopiaforums.com/boardthread?id=politics&thread=42931&showdeleted=true

It seems like they want to settle every thing in peace but they are not giving what the public really wants to have throwing piles of money at the Saudi people may not work cause they are not short of that and of course the shias living in the country may also see this as a opportunity to fight for their rights.

yeah, the libyan war makes a news diversion, so that you can go bust heads without attracting attention. israel is using it to go on some rampaging of its own right now. same as they did when they broke the gazan ceasefire in 2008 during the presidential elections. then, when news diverts away from the election, all people see is gazans firing rockets into israel.

some of our actions in pakistan may be also taking advantage of the news cycle. such is strife, eh?

Wow i am surprised that people in the west actually think that way and to some extent i am happy that someone can actually see what Israel has been doing to the Palestine people as and GOD knows what kid of wicked plans do they have in their minds now..., i think the silence of the Arab leaders on the brutality of Israel on Palestine is also a reason that the Arab people have developed a collective rage against their leaders only Muslim country that speaks openly on the subject is IRAN and they are labeled as "a nuclear threat" and if you look at the world map Israel is surrounded by all the Muslim nations but none of them really speaks up against them.

 

[nismaratwork]

Oh dear, a large explosion outside of a bus in Jerusalem... this could lead to an some ugly reprisals.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

WTF!

France 24: ISRAEL BREAKING NEWS - Bomb explodes at crowded bus stop in Jerusalem, many casualties

 

[nismaratwork]

Yep... first time in over 4 years, you have to wonder if Ghaddafi was somehow behind this, or if it's just incredibly bad timing on the part of another group.

 

[WhoWee]

Yep... first time in over 4 years, you have to wonder if Ghaddafi was somehow behind this, or if it's just incredibly bad timing on the part of another group.

My guess is the "Libyan Strongman" has his hands full right now. Perhaps FizixFreak is on target?

"i think the silence of the Arab leaders on the brutality of Israel on Palestine is also a reason that the Arab people have developed a collective rage against their leaders only Muslim country that speaks openly on the subject is IRAN and they are labeled as "a nuclear threat" and if you look at the world map Israel is surrounded by all the Muslim nations but none of them really speaks up against them. "

 

[nismaratwork]

My guess is the "Libyan Strongman" has his hands full right now. Perhaps FizixFreak is on target?

"i think the silence of the Arab leaders on the brutality of Israel on Palestine is also a reason that the Arab people have developed a collective rage against their leaders only Muslim country that speaks openly on the subject is IRAN and they are labeled as "a nuclear threat" and if you look at the world map Israel is surrounded by all the Muslim nations but none of them really speaks up against them. "

It's possible, I really don't know. I didn't expect a bombing in Israel at this time frankly, it would be a distraction for those peacefully attaining freedom of some measure, and a distraction for the Libyan opposition. Beyond that... who knows?

 

[Proton Soup]

Wow i am surprised that people in the west actually think that way and to some extent i am happy that someone can actually see what Israel has been doing to the Palestine people as and GOD knows what kid of wicked plans do they have in their minds now..., i think the silence of the Arab leaders on the brutality of Israel on Palestine is also a reason that the Arab people have developed a collective rage against their leaders only Muslim country that speaks openly on the subject is IRAN and they are labeled as "a nuclear threat" and if you look at the world map Israel is surrounded by all the Muslim nations but none of them really speaks up against them.

i think i am very unusual, at least compared to most here in the USA. the only reason i am somewhat familiar with the http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/12session/A-HRC-12-48.pdf" is that i became somewhat curious a few years ago with what i perceived as a rather condescending, paternalistic, borderline overtly racist attitude from a journalist in the mainstream press. so, i start paying attention, and eventually i come across scholars like Mr. Finkelstein.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpMpHgw7yVk

and some excellent sources of information like Mondoweiss. http://mondoweiss.net/

but you won't hear about it much in mainstream press in the US, as it self-censors. even mentioning it here is somewhat dangerous, as it's not politically correct to talk about it. but i think most are simply not interested, or just don't have the time to devote to figuring out exactly what is going on.

 

[Proton Soup]

Oh dear, a large explosion outside of a bus in Jerusalem... this could lead to an some ugly reprisals.

it was http://mondoweiss.net/2011/03/here-is-ayman-and-here-is-his-horse.html" . it's been ugly for quite a while. they had even just passed an apartheid law just before this bus. how on Earth israel can start implementing Jim Crow and have it go unnoticed in the US is bizarre to me. i think they are high on power at the moment, see an opportunity to cleanse while the world is otherwise preoccupied, and are simply going to go with it because no one will stop them.

 

[nismaratwork]

it was http://mondoweiss.net/2011/03/here-is-ayman-and-here-is-his-horse.html" . it's been ugly for quite a while. they had even just passed an apartheid law just before this bus. how on Earth israel can start implementing Jim Crow and have it go unnoticed in the US is bizarre to me. i think they are high on power at the moment, see an opportunity to cleanse while the world is otherwise preoccupied, and are simply going to go with it because no one will stop them.

Let me rephrase that: Ignoring the plight of the Palestinians for whom I have shockingly little sympathy when contrasted with how much I know about the misery of their daily lives... this could be ugly in an international setting.

Your points are interesting, but I have little pity for a group that is refused even by their so-called brothers, and frankly... lost. History has winners and losers, and these are the losers in this historical process. Pining over their slow and rather nasty destruction as a people is upsetting, but not as you say, not new, generally not appreciated, and finally:

People pick sides. Personally, I side with Israel, Aparthaid, walls, assasinations and all. It's a hard part of the world, and survival is both an ends and a means in and of itself. We could bicker about details and motivations, but I prefer to boil it down: The Palestinians are a trapped diaspora; trapped by Israel, by their own inability to accept total loss, and by every Arab neighbour who wants them in their country ALMOST as much as venemous serpents.

The right, and wrong of the issue is not something I'm concerned with in this case, only the Realpolitik. I figure I should be blunt here, I recognize the atrocities on all sides, I simply don't care much anymore; I've seen worse.

 

[Proton Soup]

Let me rephrase that: Ignoring the plight of the Palestinians for whom I have shockingly little sympathy when contrasted with how much I know about the misery of their daily lives... this could be ugly in an international setting.

Your points are interesting, but I have little pity for a group that is refused even by their so-called brothers, and frankly... lost. History has winners and losers, and these are the losers in this historical process. Pining over their slow and rather nasty destruction as a people is upsetting, but not as you say, not new, generally not appreciated, and finally:

People pick sides. Personally, I side with Israel, Aparthaid, walls, assasinations and all. It's a hard part of the world, and survival is both an ends and a means in and of itself. We could bicker about details and motivations, but I prefer to boil it down: The Palestinians are a trapped diaspora; trapped by Israel, by their own inability to accept total loss, and by every Arab neighbour who wants them in their country ALMOST as much as venemous serpents.

The right, and wrong of the issue is not something I'm concerned with in this case, only the Realpolitik. I figure I should be blunt here, I recognize the atrocities on all sides, I simply don't care much anymore; I've seen worse.

awesome. then we are on different sides. if by some quirk of fate, israel suddenly finds itself on the losing side, i don't want to hear a peep from you. all you understand is power and aggression. we tried appeasement once in europe, and it was a tragic failure. I'm not falling for it again. and I'm not having sympathy for people that learned nothing from their own tragedies except how great it is to be the aggressor.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

awesome. then we are on different sides. if by some quirk of fate, israel suddenly finds itself on the losing side, i don't want to hear a peep from you. all you understand is power and aggression. we tried appeasement once in europe, and it was a tragic failure. I'm not falling for it again. and I'm not having sympathy for people that learned nothing from their own tragedies except how great it is to be the aggressor.

I agree PS, but we must take a clear stand against all aggression. I think the main problem here is that 'outsiders' is picking sides and blaming everything on the other part.

We will never solve this problem in that manner... and "wishing for extinction" of millions of human beings is something I never expected to read on PF, which otherwise is full of clever minds. This is not Germany in the 1930’s.

The rest of the world needs to take a clear stand against all aggression, no matter which part is guilty, and use all civil means available to isolate the Hawks and reward the Doves (they exist on both sides).

This two-thousand-year-old conflict cannot be solved with violence and aggression, not even if the antagonists continue along this path for another thousand years.

Violence and aggression generates more religious radical fundamentalism, which generates more aggression, which generates more fundamentalism, etc, etc, etc, etc ...

It’s very hard for diplomatic negotiations if one believes he has the "Highest Power" on his side – and therefore can’t be wrong.

This is a political problem – not religious.

 

[FizixFreak]

i think i am very unusual, at least compared to most here in the USA. the only reason i am somewhat familiar with the http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/12session/A-HRC-12-48.pdf" is that i became somewhat curious a few years ago with what i perceived as a rather condescending, paternalistic, borderline overtly racist attitude from a journalist in the mainstream press. so, i start paying attention, and eventually i come across scholars like Mr. Finkelstein.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpMpHgw7yVk

and some excellent sources of information like Mondoweiss. http://mondoweiss.net/

but you won't hear about it much in mainstream press in the US, as it self-censors. even mentioning it here is somewhat dangerous, as it's not politically correct to talk about it. but i think most are simply not interested, or just don't have the time to devote to figuring out exactly what is going on.

For a little time i was actually happy that there might be more people who think this way but it was too good to be true it doesn't makes much difference though Israel will stop at nothing to completely decimate the Palestine people and then quite ironically the ones who try to defend themselves will be called "terrorists" i have no idea how much hatred it takes to do such things i am not as disgusted as i am shocked...,shocked not only at the actions of Israel but even more shocked on the impotency of the Arab leaders.

I can talk a lot about what Israel is doing but this all could have been avoided if the Arab world would not have abandoned the Palestine people so they are the real culprits and its sad to know that this stuff is almost like "taboo" to be talked about its even more sad that even media is in on this like you said there are people who don't really care about this and accept what they are shown but who can blame them they are just trying to carry on with their lives but i have to take my hats off to you who really looks into this matter and for that i really respect you

 

[elabed haidar]

This is all usa and isreal fault if it weren't for them we could live in peace without the everyday interferences in our daily lives

 

[FizixFreak]

Let me rephrase that: Ignoring the plight of the Palestinians for whom I have shockingly little sympathy when contrasted with how much I know about the misery of their daily lives... this could be ugly in an international setting.

Your points are interesting, but I have little pity for a group that is refused even by their so-called brothers, and frankly... lost. History has winners and losers, and these are the losers in this historical process. Pining over their slow and rather nasty destruction as a people is upsetting, but not as you say, not new, generally not appreciated, and finally:

People pick sides. Personally, I side with Israel, Aparthaid, walls, assasinations and all. It's a hard part of the world, and survival is both an ends and a means in and of itself. We could bicker about details and motivations, but I prefer to boil it down: The Palestinians are a trapped diaspora; trapped by Israel, by their own inability to accept total loss, and by every Arab neighbour who wants them in their country ALMOST as much as venemous serpents.

The right, and wrong of the issue is not something I'm concerned with in this case, only the Realpolitik. I figure I should be blunt here, I recognize the atrocities on all sides, I simply don't care much anymore; I've seen worse.

Wow Nismar i have to say if you were born in the early 1900s and in Germany you would have been an excellent NAZI

I am sure that with such views you would not be against the Nazis because they probably did the same they supported the side that was in control not the side that was morally right..., for some reason i think that you are trying to be a TOUGH GUY you know the ones that act really blunt and aggressive to make other people think that they are real BADASS the reason i say this is because you don't really seem like a person who would support Israel on this subject you seem much more reasonable to me.