What is the reality of finding a perfect partner?

[Evo]

maybe it was a gift from his mom. or he came from a religious background.
why would this be an issue?

I know what Moonbear is referring to. Not being religious, I would not be able to date someone that held religious beliefs. There are just basic belief issues that would prevent a relationship other than just friendship. Although it's possible to find someone non-religious at such a function, it would be like going to a vegan restaurant hoping to get a steak.

 

[Moonbear]

maybe it was a gift from his mom. or he came from a religious background.
why would this be an issue?

Because I'm not religious. I wouldn't want to be with someone so religious that he'd hang a crucifix in the bedroom. And if he isn't religious, then it would mean he didn't have the backbone to tell his mom he didn't want it. If my mom sent me a crucifix as a gift, it would head straight to the trash, and I sure as heck wouldn't hang the thing in the bedroom. I'm actually pretty sure it was the latter, that he was too much of a momma's boy. There's a difference between having a good relationship with your parents and not being able to say no to them when you're an adult and living on your own (we're not talking a college apartment that his parents helped pay for and decorated because he couldn't afford furniture yet, or a bedroom in his parents' house, we're talking about a guy who had a well-paying job and was living on his own already).

 

[Pengwuino]

Having a crucifix in your room sends you over the edge?

Was it like 5 feet tall?

 

[Moonbear]

I know what Moonbear is referring to. Not being religious, I would not be able to date someone that held religious beliefs. There are just basic belief issues that would prevent a relationship other than just friendship. Although it's possible to find someone non-religious at such a function, it would be like going to a vegan restaurant hoping to get a steak.

I wouldn't go so far as to say I couldn't date someone that held religious beliefs, just not the sort who held those beliefs so deeply and unquestioningly as to hang crucifixes in the home or to need to go to church every Sunday. If he was the sort who went to mass only on Christmas and Easter and I had to sit through saying grace when visiting his parents for meals, I could accept that; though, in all likelihood, the problem would be the other way around...for someone who really has religious beliefs rather than just going through the motions more because it's just part of their family traditions, once they realized my lack of religiosity, they'd probably not want to be with me.

 

[The_Professional]

Because I'm not religious. I wouldn't want to be with someone so religious that he'd hang a crucifix in the bedroom.

okay.

If my mom sent me a crucifix as a gift, it would head straight to the trash, and I sure as heck wouldn't hang the thing in the bedroom.

so if someone gives you a gift you don't like you immediately throw it in the trash? or does this only apply to religious objects

 

[Moonbear]

Having a crucifix in your room sends you over the edge?
Was it like 5 feet tall?

It was pretty big. We're not talking about something 3 inches tall sitting in a corner of a dresser, we're talking about something at least a foot or so high hanging prominently in the middle of the wall. And not just a cross, it was a full-blown crucifix.

 

[Pengwuino]

What if someone has an American flag in their room? Ultra-nationalist militant? A plant? Environmental fanatic? I look around the room I'm in right now and using that same logic, I am one of the wackiest human beings on earth. I mean let's see... there's some cars, guess I'm a gambling addict (although that might not be too far fetched for me), jewelry maker, couch potato, NRA spokesman, i have allergies, chemist, electrical engineer, fashion model...

 

[Pengwuino]

It was pretty big. We're not talking about something 3 inches tall sitting in a corner of a dresser, we're talking about something at least a foot or so high hanging prominently in the middle of the wall. And not just a cross, it was a full-blown crucifix.

A foot is pretty big... but i still think its absurd to just assume he would force different values (if he shared different values in the first place) on you. My parents are a mix of very religious/barely religious and they don't have any problems (or more accurately, they bicker about OTHER things )

 

[Orefa]

so if someone gives you a gift you don't like you immediately throw it in the trash? or does this only apply to religious objects

Religious symbols can irritate anyone for whom they symbolize superstitious beliefs. I wouldn't give a swastika to a jew or a crucifix to an atheist or agnostic.

Having said that, wow! Six pages of comments overnight on the topic of what's wrong with MEN! And here I go adding one more. Is this indicative of anything?

 

[The_Professional]

Religious symbols can irritate anyone for whom they symbolize superstitious beliefs. I wouldn't give a swastika to a jew or a crucifix to an atheist or agnostic.

obviously, if you know someone is an atheist you won't give them the satanic bible.

 

[Moonbear]

okay.
so if someone gives you a gift you don't like you immediately throw it in the trash? or does this only apply to religious objects

If someone gave me a religious object as a gift, I would realize they clearly have no respect for my beliefs (or lack thereof), so there really would be no reason to keep around something they sent me. Really, giving someone who is not religious a crucifix is pretty offensive. It's nearly as bad as my one friend's wife, who has been known to send those very religious Christmas cards (the ones that quote verses from the New Testament) to our Jewish friend.

But, generally, I don't keep a bunch of junk and clutter around my house. If someone sends me a gift I don't like, I'll politely say thank-you, and when they leave, it'll land in the trash, or if it's something that could be useful to someone else, I'll give it away to someone who needs it. I'm not huge into gift-giving anyway. My sister especially gives stupid gifts, and many of them have worked their way into the trash. I tried telling her to just not get gifts, to just let me spoil my nephew and for the grown-ups not to bother with gift-trading, but she gets gifts anyway, so now I just give her a list of things I actually need so she doesn't keep getting me junk I don't need. My parents have learned to just send gift certificates, though, I've tried talking them into not bother to get gifts either (mostly because they are retired and living on fixed incomes, so really don't need to be wasting their money on me). At least my parents have figured out that I have my own tastes and when I need something, I buy it for myself, so there's no point in them trying to buy things for me, because we just don't like the same things at all. My sister still hasn't gotten that sunken in yet, despite us having pretty opposite tastes all our lives.

 

[Pengwuino]

Jewish people don't dislike Swastika's because they symbolize any "superstitious believe"... Theres a much bigger reason...

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Jewish people don't dislike Swastika's because they symbolize any "superstitious believe"... Theres a much bigger reason...

Jewish people don't like swastikas? What?







My current car used to belong to my grandparents and has a religious license plate frame on it ("Life is fragile. Handle with prayer"). I'm a bit embarassed by it but every time I think to remove it I feel guilty because my grandmother still thinks of that car as her baby.

 

[The_Professional]

If someone gave me a religious object as a gift, I would realize they clearly have no respect for my beliefs (or lack thereof), so there really would be no reason to keep around something they sent me. Really, giving someone who is not religious a crucifix is pretty offensive. It's nearly as bad as my one friend's wife, who has been known to send those very religious Christmas cards (the ones that quote verses from the New Testament) to our Jewish friend.
But, generally, I don't keep a bunch of junk and clutter around my house. If someone sends me a gift I don't like, I'll politely say thank-you, and when they leave, it'll land in the trash, or if it's something that could be useful to someone else, I'll give it away to someone who needs it. I'm not huge into gift-giving anyway. My sister especially gives stupid gifts, and many of them have worked their way into the trash. I tried telling her to just not get gifts, to just let me spoil my nephew and for the grown-ups not to bother with gift-trading, but she gets gifts anyway, so now I just give her a list of things I actually need so she doesn't keep getting me junk I don't need. My parents have learned to just send gift certificates, though, I've tried talking them into not bother to get gifts either (mostly because they are retired and living on fixed incomes, so really don't need to be wasting their money on me). At least my parents have figured out that I have my own tastes and when I need something, I buy it for myself, so there's no point in them trying to buy things for me, because we just don't like the same things at all. My sister still hasn't gotten that sunken in yet, despite us having pretty opposite tastes all our lives.

okay, i see your point. i disagree in a few areas

 

[Moonbear]

What if someone has an American flag in their room? Ultra-nationalist militant? A plant? Environmental fanatic? I look around the room I'm in right now and using that same logic, I am one of the wackiest human beings on earth. I mean let's see... there's some cars, guess I'm a gambling addict (although that might not be too far fetched for me), jewelry maker, couch potato, NRA spokesman, i have allergies, chemist, electrical engineer, fashion model...

It's all about finding people who have things in common with you. I wouldn't display a flag on the wall inside my home either...I'm ambivalent about displaying one outside, but if someone does want to display it outside, they better be prepared to install the lights to keep it lit or bring it inside at night. So, yeah, if they had a big flag hanging on the wall inside, I'd probably think twice too. I like plants, so if they had a lot of plants, that would fit right in with what I like...in fact, if the plants were healthy, it might be a bonus (I love plants, but they don't live long around me...I tend to forget to do things like water them ). I'm just realistic in knowing what I am and am not comfortable with. There's no point in wasting time pursuing a relationship with someone who has very fundamental differences in beliefs if I know I can't live with those differences. That's what most of this thread has been saying, that it's futile to try to "fix" those things, or to make them change things. If a guy is religious enough to hang a crucifix on his wall, or is totally comfortable with having his mom put it there, then we have some very fundamental differences that would not make us compatible. I'm not going to ask him to abandon his religion or his mom for me, that just doesn't work. I move on and keep looking for someone more compatible. It's really not any different than recognizing I wouldn't be compatible with a vegan, or someone who was an animal rights activist, or a smoker, just like someone else might not be compatible with someone who enjoyed hunting or fishing, or once in a blue moon going to a strip club, although those things wouldn't bother me in the least (especially if he was willing to take me along). To me, there are certain fundamental values that are all-or-none in finding a good match, while there are a lot of other little things that can be worked out as you get to know them.

Besides, this thread is supposed to be about what's wrong with men, not what's wrong with Moonbear's taste in men. Isn't it enough we already have two "is Moonbear over-sensitive?" threads (as Russ called it)?

 

[Hurkyl]

Going back to the OP!

Are you letting it be known that you're looking? (how would one go about doing that anyways -- I mean to let it be known you're looking, as opposed to being interested in anyone in particular -- I mean for people who don't go to bars)

I must admit that after this thread, you suddenly seem cute. I had simply never thought anything about it before. I imagine "real-life" effects would be similar.

 

[motai]

I think the problem is that people are going into relationships with unconscious expectations.

For instance, the classical question "Is this guy/girl the right one for me?". Its an entirely self-centered question. Personally, I would be asking "Am I the right guy/girl for him/her".

That and the couple should be able to talk about anything and everything at a certain level, i.e. nothing should be kept a secret. Relationships crumble under dishonesty, or even worse, infidelity, but that's another story.

About the religion thing, personally I think it is important to have the same religious beliefs shared by the couple. A pairing between an athiest and a truly devout Christian will not work at all.

 

[Pengwuino]

For instance, the classical question "Is this guy/girl the right one for me?". Its an entirely self-centered question. Personally, I would be asking "Am I the right guy/girl for her".

So what happens when you find a girl who thinks your the greatest person ever but you hate everything about her?

 

[motai]

So what happens when you find a girl who thinks your the greatest person ever but you hate everything about her?

That seems like a rare case, sounds like something more suited for celebrity/fan relationships . I forgot that celebrity story recently, something about a fan claiming that a celebrity stalked her or something and filing restraining orders and such, really weird stuff. Anyway, besides the point.

 

[The_Professional]

I think the problem is that people are going into relationships with unconscious expectations.
For instance, the classical question "Is this guy/girl the right one for me?". Its an entirely self-centered question. Personally, I would be asking "Am I the right guy/girl for him/her".

you're supposed to ask yourself if she's the right one. you don't want to end up with a nutjob

That and the couple should be able to talk about anything and everything at a certain level, i.e. nothing should be kept a secret.

this is all oprah brainwashing. there are some things that are better left off. there is a time and place to tell a girl that you were a hitman for the mafia. if it's not going to raise her interest keep quiet about it.

 

[Mk]

this is all oprah brainwashing. there are some things that are better left off. there is a time and place to tell a girl that you were a hitman for the mafia. if it's not going to raise her interest keep quiet about it.

You're right, but is it Oprah brainwashing? Or Dr. Phil?

 

[Moonbear]

For instance, the classical question "Is this guy/girl the right one for me?". Its an entirely self-centered question. Personally, I would be asking "Am I the right guy/girl for him/her".

Nah, I'd leave it to the guy to figure out if I'm right for him.

That and the couple should be able to talk about anything and everything at a certain level, i.e. nothing should be kept a secret. Relationships crumble under dishonesty, or even worse, infidelity, but that's another story.

Well, unless you work in a field that requires security clearance and aren't allowed to tell your spouse everything. I actually don't mind a guy keeping secrets from me, as long as he isn't actually hiding things from me. Yes, I'll explain. For example, if we're friends with another couple, and one person of that couple tells him something in confidence, and I ask what their conversation was about, if he answers that he can't tell me because something was shared in confidence, that's fine (yeah, I'll be curious, but I won't be bothered that he doesn't share). If, instead he answers me with, "nothing," or makes up something, that would bug me. I respect a person who can keep secrets, and realize that as long as it isn't something that affects me, if someone tells him a secret, it doesn't automatically mean they want me to know it too.

 

[Moonbear]

this is all oprah brainwashing. there are some things that are better left off. there is a time and place to tell a girl that you were a hitman for the mafia. if it's not going to raise her interest keep quiet about it.

It's much more important for a woman to inform a man interested in her immediately if her father was ever a hitman for the mafia.

 

[The_Professional]

You're right, but is it Oprah brainwashing? Or Dr. Phil?

they're equally guilty. their message to guys is: tell all your negatives, your insecurities, your hang-ups, your secret fears, your nightmares and the woman will fall in love with you. the guy won't last long term. she's not there to be a shrink or a mother.

 

[Mk]

He kept saying he'd whack me, but he looked kinda old to do any damage so I was like "ok, don't worry."

they're equally guilty. their message to guys is: tell all your negatives, your insecurities, your hang-ups, your secret fears, your nightmares and the woman will fall in love with you. the guy won't last long term. she's not there to be a shrink or a mother.

Real men show off their insecurities, fears, and hang-ups.

 

[The_Professional]

Real men show off their insecurities, fears, and hang-ups.

do you hear the terminator saying something other than to strike fear in the hearts of men? do you think clint eastwood would stop in the middle of a shootout and tell his enemies that his mother never gave him enough milk when he was a baby?

 

[Moonbear]

they're equally guilty. their message to guys is: tell all your negatives, your insecurities, your hang-ups, your secret fears, your nightmares and the woman will fall in love with you. the guy won't last long term. she's not there to be a shrink or a mother.

Yeah, that's probably the world's worst advice to men, unless they're looking for one of those women who likes to take on "projects." The important stuff, she'll figure out over time anyway, the rest you should at least wait until AFTER she's in love with you to start sharing, and then only little bits at a time. You don't want to come across as an insecure nut-job, unless of course you're interested in meeting an insecure nut-job.

 

[The_Professional]

Yeah, that's probably the world's worst advice to men, unless they're looking for one of those women who likes to take on "projects." The important stuff, she'll figure out over time anyway, the rest you should at least wait until AFTER she's in love with you to start sharing, and then only little bits at a time. You don't want to come across as an insecure nut-job, unless of course you're interested in meeting an insecure nut-job.

exactly, information should be spoon-fed. slow down guys

 

[Evo]

I couldn't even consider any guy that admits to reading or watching Oprah or Dr Phil.

That's just wrong.

 

[Math Is Hard]

I couldn't even consider any guy that admits to reading or watching Oprah or Dr Phil.
That's just wrong.

seconded. eww.

 

[Evo]

seconded. eww.

I love your avatar!

 

[Moonbear]

I couldn't even consider any guy that admits to reading or watching Oprah or Dr Phil.
That's just wrong.

Well, I could still consider him as long as he swears that the reading material was the only thing that was in the bathroom, or that he watches only for the comedy value (I can't stand Oprah, but Dr. Phil is pretty funny to watch sometimes).

 

[turbo]

I couldn't even consider any guy that admits to reading or watching Oprah or Dr Phil.
That's just wrong.

My wife sometimes watches this stuff while on the exercise bike. I would consider myself unclean if I paid more than passing attention. It is so lame!

 

[Mk]

Even ferrets fear Dr. Phil.

 

[saltydog]

I couldn't even consider any guy that admits to reading or watching Oprah or Dr Phil.
That's just wrong.

Jesus, don't tell them that Eve. You're just making it worst for everyone. And then I bet you complain about men and then wonder why. No doubt you'd think a man is a pus*y if he reads any of the books about having good relationships.