What Exactly Is Happening In the Arab/Persian World?

[nismaratwork]

Those comparisons are meaningless.

However, longer they protest, longer country stays in chaos, longer it takes to the bring back the country to the right track. It is nonsensical to overthrow governments and create chaos every time they feel hungry. Blaming government for everything, protesting, and creating chaos is not going to give them better living standards.

They've made a choice to walk unarmed into AM fire... I believe you're selling these people short on their motives.

 

[CheckMate]

Those comparisons are meaningless.

However, longer they protest, longer country stays in chaos, longer it takes to the bring back the country to the right track. It is nonsensical to overthrow governments and create chaos every time they feel hungry. Blaming government for everything, protesting, and creating chaos is not going to give them better living standards.

The logic you are using is flawed. You have to look at the LONG TERM. Yes, living standards may not be so good after a couple of months after dictators have been removed. However, when there is going to be much better leadership : The NET result after a given interval of time is going to be much better from a certain frame of reference.

It's not about having better living standards. It's about FREEDOM.

Freedom is why the Americans fought Britain. Freedom is what fuels insurgencies.

 

[rootX]

Sure ... we will see in few months then.

:zzz:

 

[nismaratwork]

The logic you are using is flawed. You have to look at the LONG TERM. Yes, living standards may not be so good after a couple of months after dictators have been removed. However, when there is going to be much better leadership : The NET result after a given interval of time is going to be much better from a certain frame of reference.

It's not about having better living standards. It's about FREEDOM.

Freedom is why the Americans fought Britain. Freedom is what fuels insurgencies.

Yeah... and America didn't really come together until after a civil war. If you think that Libya comes out of this better than going in, you really need to work on your history.

 

[nismaratwork]

Damn it...

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/28/libya.protests/index.html?hpt=T1

Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- As embattled Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi fought to hold onto his fraying regime, reports came in Monday that a military jet bombed a military base in an area controlled by protesters.

The base is in Ajdabiya, 90 miles south of Benghazi, a stronghold of government opponents. Some bases in the area have fallen into the hands of protesters as more members of the military have abandoned Gadhafi's regime and joined demonstrations.

Several soldiers told CNN they switched their allegiance after refusing to use weapons against peaceful demonstrators.

CNN saw the military jet fly above and heard the sounds of explosions. Witnesses reported a bombing at the base.

But Libyan state television later denied any such bombing. The Temporary General Committee for Defense denied reports that the Libyan air force conducted strikes on the ammunition depots in the ciities of Ajdabiya and Rajima, state TV reported...

 

[Proton Soup]

upset over demolition of illegal settlements

terrorism in nablus

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=364304

vandalism in hebron, and promises of a "day of rage" on thursday

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4035962,00.html

more on "day of rage"

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=364530

 

[nismaratwork]

upset over demolition of illegal settlements

terrorism in nablus

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=364304

vandalism in hebron, and promises of a "day of rage" on thursday

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4035962,00.html

more on "day of rage"

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=364530

They've been raging for a long time... right into the ground and the arms of Hamas. It's that rage that's destroyed the Palestinians more than any other factor IMO. The Israelis will kill them all before ceding the country to them, and I think we all know it. I'm not endorsing or condemning that, just pointing it out.

 

[Proton Soup]

They've been raging for a long time... right into the ground and the arms of Hamas. It's that rage that's destroyed the Palestinians more than any other factor IMO. The Israelis will kill them all before ceding the country to them, and I think we all know it. I'm not endorsing or condemning that, just pointing it out.

thank you for proving that you did not read it.

 

[nismaratwork]

thank you for proving that you did not read it.

How so?

edit: OUCH

Other way around... Yep, this is not my proudest moment.

 

[Proton Soup]

How so?

edit: OUCH

Other way around... Yep, this is not my proudest moment.

it is israeli settlers that are planning a "day of rage". i don't quite follow your jumping into the hands of hamas statement.

 

[nismaratwork]

it is israeli settlers that are planning a "day of rage". i don't quite follow your jumping into the hands of hamas statement.

I didn't read it, I assumed, and I made a stupid assumption at that. Hence, "ouch" and "not my proudeset moment"... and my comment in the Random Thoughts thread. You're right, and I'd delete my mistaken comment, but frankly I'll leave it as a reminder to myself:

READ IT ALL... don't assume...

 

[DevilsAvocado]

CNN: Two people shot on a military base in Germany!? Related to... "this"?

 

[Char. Limit]

Has anyone heard about the Saudi tanks rolling into Bahrain to crush rebellion?

Yeah, this is some serious stuff. The Saudis are messing with Bahrain's internal revolution. How do you think the people of Bahrain feel about the Saudis right about now, eh? Not too good, right?

Did I mention that we are a known ally of the House of Saud?

 

[nismaratwork]

Has anyone heard about the Saudi tanks rolling into Bahrain to crush rebellion?

Yeah, this is some serious stuff. The Saudis are messing with Bahrain's internal revolution. How do you think the people of Bahrain feel about the Saudis right about now, eh? Not too good, right?

Did I mention that we are a known ally of the House of Saud?

Yep... this is the scenario I was fretting about earlier in this thread: The Saudis made it VERY clear they're roll right across the straights of Hormuz; they wont' tolerate a Shiite uprising in their eastern region.

@DA: I started a thread on that, but I don't think so. There is conflicting info, but the shooter seemed to have a clear plan, and was Chechen or from Kosovo.
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=477639

 

[Gokul43201]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/03/us-beyonce-gaddafi-idUSTRE72243Q20110303

(Reuters) - Singers Beyonce and Mariah Carey have sought to distance themselves from the tainted Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, for whose entourage they both performed at glitzy New Year's eve parties.

Mariah Carey: "I was naive and unaware of who I was booked to perform for"

Another reason why you should pay attention during History class, or maybe try reading a newspaper sometime!

Meanwhile, there seem to some additional signs of progress in Egypt: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703300904576178561887731904.html

 

[Char. Limit]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/03/us-beyonce-gaddafi-idUSTRE72243Q20110303

Mariah Carey: "I was naive and unaware of who I was booked to perform for,"

Another reason why you should pay attention during History class!

Meanwhile, there seem to some additional signs of progress in Egypt: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703300904576178561887731904.html

Ignorance before my court of opinion is less than no excuse. Maybe, you could do a simple Google search on your client.

 

[nismaratwork]

Ignorance before my court of opinion is less than no excuse. Maybe, you could do a simple Google search on your client.

Yeah... a million... ugh. That's a lot of blood money.

 

[BobG]

Has anyone heard about the Saudi tanks rolling into Bahrain to crush rebellion?

Yeah, this is some serious stuff. The Saudis are messing with Bahrain's internal revolution. How do you think the people of Bahrain feel about the Saudis right about now, eh? Not too good, right?

Did I mention that we are a known ally of the House of Saud?

Well, the US is a known ally of Bahrain, as well, seeing as how we have a fleet that anchors there.

The tanks are possibly true. I find it strange that none of the major news organizations have reported it, though. Instead, financial news has blamed rumors of Saudi tanks for dips in the market.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Mariah Carey: "I was naive and unaware of who I was booked to perform for"

Another reason why you should pay attention during History class, or maybe try reading a newspaper sometime!

Agree, but let’s not forget that Mariah Carey is in very distinguished company...

http://thebeaveronline.co.uk/2010/01/12/gaddafi-gives-1-5mil-to-lse/"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P88FAtAhbcY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpOrd03HKAY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvH22_bTa0w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYVWT_kDTsU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuAyk6jHwQY

Did they all sleep thru History class and latest newspaper...??

 

[Gokul43201]

I don't get your point. Which of these people claimed to have been unaware of who Gaddafi was?

 

[nismaratwork]

Heh... I like that the two senators we sent over, are now the two who stupidly want to air-drop arms for rebels with an uncertain future.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

I don't get your point. Which of these people claimed to have been unaware of who Gaddafi was?

Well, it’s me and that 'disordered joking' again...

The real point is that we can hardly be displeased by Mariah Carey making a million bucks or so, when the rest of the western world is making billion dollar business with open arms, kisses and hugs, right?

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Heh... I like that the two senators we sent over, are now the two who stupidly want to air-drop arms for rebels with an uncertain future.

 

[Char. Limit]

Well, it’s me and that 'disordered joking' again...

The real point is that we can hardly be displeased by Mariah Carey making a million bucks or so, when the rest of the western world is making billion dollar business with open arms, kisses and hugs, right?

Oh yes we can. Just because other people are doing it too doesn't excuse her.

 

[Gokul43201]

Heh... I like that the two senators we sent over, are now the two who stupidly want to air-drop arms for rebels with an uncertain future.

The irony is deeper when you recall that during their previous visit, they were attempting to broker an arms deal with the Gaddafi Govt.

 

[nismaratwork]

Oh yes we can. Just because other people are doing it too doesn't excuse her.

I'd have to agree here, although I really don't care what she does or doesn't do. When did we start expecting moral probity from entertainers?

Now nations, should be held to a higher standard than pop stars.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Oh yes we can. Just because other people are doing it too doesn't excuse her.

Brilliant.

 

[nismaratwork]

The irony is deeper when you recall that during their previous visit, they were attempting to broker an arms deal with the Gaddafi Govt.

Oh, I remember... I remember Iran Contra, and ever other dirty trick we've done; I've made a hobby of studying it.

How anyone can look at politicians and business leaders with anything less than cold murder in their eyes is beyond me.

 

[Gokul43201]

The real point is that we can hardly be displeased by Mariah Carey making a million bucks or so, when the rest of the western world is making billion dollar business with open arms, kisses and hugs, right?

I'm not displeased that Carey made a million bucks off Gaddafi*. I'm annoyed that she did it out of mind numbing ignorance.

*Heck, I'd rather he be spending his time and money on distractions like Carey or Beyonce than be sitting in his palace concocting delusional plans for who-knows-what.

 

[mugaliens]

Mariah Carey: "I was naive and unaware of who I was booked to perform for"

At least it didn't take her thirty years to render an apology.

 

[Evo]

Saudi Arabia has left no doubt about letting their people protest.

Saudi Arabia: Demonstrations won't be tolerated

The ministry said some people have tried to go around the law to "achieve illegitimate aims," and it warned that security forces were authorized to act against violators.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_saudi_protests

 

[nismaratwork]

Suadi Arabia has left no doubt about letting their people protest.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_saudi_protests

They're not about to let their Shiaa far-eastern region join with Bahrain. The Saudis are also extremely well armed, and not poorly trained in security... they shouldn't be anyway... we armed and trained them.

 

[Proton Soup]

They're not about to let their Shiaa far-eastern region join with Bahrain. The Saudis are also extremely well armed, and not poorly trained in security... they shouldn't be anyway... we armed and trained them.

they would be devastating against civilians. i have my doubts about their chances in any regional conflict.

 

[nismaratwork]

they would be devastating against civilians. i have my doubts about their chances in any regional conflict.

If by regional conflict, you mean something other than annexing Bahrain, I agree.

 

[nismaratwork]

Damn...

A bunch of women slaughtered in the Ivory Coast by Gbagbo's forces. Son of a goat and a pig, miserable wretch who makes the case for contraception that he is... he had his forces do this:

March 2011 Last updated at 09:22 ET Help Ivory Coast forces have shot dead at least six women taking part in a peaceful protest against the president in the main city Abidjan, witnesses say.

The incident has prompted further condemnation of the country's president, Laurent Gbagbo, who is widely seen as having lost last year's election but is refusing to hand over power.

John James reports.

THIS IS GRAPHIC AND DISTURBING, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. NOW WATCH... it's your duty.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12656451

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7opSZsLpY&feature=player_embedded