Conflicted Feelings: Moving On from High School

[Zantra]

What world are you living in?

Apparently the 1950's with that attitude. I'd EXPECT a woman to offer to split the cost of a date, maybe even offer to pay completely. Gold-digging women looking for a free meal need not apply. Nowadays that's completely acceptable.

 

[GeorginaS]

Dinner qualifies as "gold-digging" these days? (I want to insert that rolling, laughing head, but I can't get the advanced post reply to work for me today.)

 

[twisting_edge]

Folks, the consensus opinion on the "who pays issue" these days is very clear, at least for the first few dates.

The woman must offer to split the bill. While she is digging in her purse, the man must insist on paying the entire bill. If the man actually allows the woman to pay any part of it, that will be their last date.

I read that a couple of places in the last six months or so (mostly different articles in the NYT, most likely). It's not just my opinion on the matter.

The jokers still living on campus probably have their own rituals.

 

[rocketboy]

The only fights I've ever had with my gf have been over me always paying for everything (not really fights). She insists on paying every single time...but I don't think she's ever gotten away with it. It's really easy since it takes her so long to get out their purse, then get out her wallet, then get out her money/card...by the time she is ready to pay it's already been done!

and Mattius, I say go for it and have some fun. People's intentions don't always have to be honorable...there's nothing wrong with hooking up! Perhaps it won't work out as a relationship but what is to stop you two from having some good times? (or, more good times) Hell, the worst that can happen is nothing, which is what you'll get if you don't go for it. It's a win-win situation you're in! (unless of course you are looking for a relationship, in which case ur still 50-50!)

 

[Mattius_]

jeez Mattius you're a regular saint!

My opinion is probably going to piss people off, but from your 'adventures' it seems that you are a real mean guy. I think you should go for it. You two seem to deserve each other.

You say you speak up against bullies?? So wait, what was that girl doing to her boyfriend?? You hadn't even met the guy and there you are making assumptions and showing him no respect right from the bloody start. You start flirting with his girlfriend right in front of him, completely disregarding his presence. You only did this because he was such a pushover/loser right? Oh wait, it's not bullying when you're doing it is that also right?

I think that there is a definite personality connection with you and the girl. You are both self-centred and act with no civility. So there you go, you got the two ticks you needed for the relationship. The first tick is that you connect physically and then the second is that you connect on a personal level as well. You guys are the perfect match.

I know that you said you were sorry about the flirting thing, but from your description I just saw the insincerity oozing from the screen.

P.S. It doesn't matter if the boyfriend could easily defend himself physically...you're still bullying in a sense. Also from the way you've conducted yourself I'd say that your intentions are not good.

I omitted a lot of variables about the guy simply because he is a small part of my problem. The reason I started flirting was because I was drunk. The reason I kept doing it was because he didn't stop me. The fact that he didn't have the gonads to say anything really reinforced my assumptions that she was with the wrong type of guy, again. If a guy does not protect the girl he is with, that is a sign of serious weakness. Would you not feel ashamed if you just sat there and let some drunk fool hit on your girlfriend all night? How would you feel if your girlfriend started flirting back? Can you not see the disfunction in that relationship? How do you think she fealt when he didn't protect her? Would any woman on here stay with a guy who doesn't step in and protect her? Do you think any two people could have a happy future if that happend? In a way I guess my advances were a test to their relationship. If he just sat back and poured drinks while I moved in on his girlfriend, then I am just doing her a favor. If he got in my face and told me off, then damn, he would have been a hero to her and I would have been wrong. Despite my arrogance towards him, I SINCERELY felt bad about it and gave him a SINCERE apology. When he didn't even get stern with me or express that he was upset, I really lost respect for him. The fact of the matter is that I AM self-centered in some ways. I have pride in that because it shows that I have faith and confidence in myself. If I feel that I could be a perfect guy for a girl then some insecure guy isn't going to stand in my way. If instead I was cordial and respectful to their relationship like you suggest, then she will potentially get stuck with a loser and he could potentially be submissive for the rest of his life. If I am wrong about all of this, then their affection for each other should be enough to brush me aside.

Aside from justifying my behavior, I feel that our connection is 80% physical with a chance for a spiritual connection to blossum. I will tell her very directly that nothing will ever happen between us unless she is single. That condition isn't because I would feel guilty about superceding her boyfriend, but because of two more important reasons. 1) I value a 5% chance of a serious relationship more than some side action, and starting a relationship while they are still together would put our long term chances down to nill, and 2) She needs to understand that I don't approve of her not being honest with her boyfriend. He may be a pushover but I still think anyone in that position deserves to know if they are just wasting time. If anyone else disagrees with me I would like to here.

 

[Hurkyl]

The woman must offer to split the bill. While she is digging in her purse, the man must insist on paying the entire bill. If the man actually allows the woman to pay any part of it, that will be their last date.

If that's what the woman thinks, then I'll be happy for that to be the last date.

 

[PrudensOptimus]

If that's what the woman thinks, then I'll be happy for that to be the last date.

LOL,


Have your theory worked ever in your courtings?


-

 

[Omega_6]

LOL,


Have your theory worked ever in your courtings?


-

It has in mine...if the girl is not willing to give and compromise as well, then it is not a relationship.

 

[Moonbear]

LOL,


Have your theory worked ever in your courtings?


-

It has worked with me. It drives me nuts if a guy tries to pay for everything. I feel like I'm taking advantage of him, or like he's treating me like a child who can't take care of myself (guess that depends a bit on how else he acts). If a guy never let's me pay, it tells me he's not interested in a woman who can be independent and take care of herself, or that he wants us to starve on salad because the only other way to handle that is to just order really inexpensive food so you don't feel too guilty about it.

 

[Zantra]

It has worked with me. It drives me nuts if a guy tries to pay for everything. I feel like I'm taking advantage of him, or like he's treating me like a child who can't take care of myself (guess that depends a bit on how else he acts). If a guy never let's me pay, it tells me he's not interested in a woman who can be independent and take care of herself, or that he wants us to starve on salad because the only other way to handle that is to just order really inexpensive food so you don't feel too guilty about it.

Thank you.

And from the other side of the coin, if a woman assumes you're going to pay then orders something expensive, or going beyond dinner makes no attempt to be conservative with the money that she ASSUMES you're spending on her, heads up because you're likely being used. If the girl really likes you, she'll either offer to pay or not order something over priced. In fact most women will ask what you're having so they can order something less expensive. If you get a burger and she's having the filet mignon, beware. If it looks greedy, it is greedy.

I once had a girl who was blatantly using me for a free meal (first date) and order a very expensive meal. Needless to say the date went poorly, so when I was done eating, I got up and went to the bathroom- never to return.

 

[gravenewworld]

My biggest problem is that i dont have girl trouble. I haven't had a gf in a long time, and I'm really not THAT ugly.

 

[PrudensOptimus]

My biggest problem is that i dont have girl trouble. I haven't had a gf in a long time, and I'm really not THAT ugly.

My mother always tell me to go out with girls that love me, not with those whom I love.

 

[PrudensOptimus]

It has worked with me. It drives me nuts if a guy tries to pay for everything. I feel like I'm taking advantage of him, or like he's treating me like a child who can't take care of myself (guess that depends a bit on how else he acts). If a guy never let's me pay, it tells me he's not interested in a woman who can be independent and take care of herself, or that he wants us to starve on salad because the only other way to handle that is to just order really inexpensive food so you don't feel too guilty about it.

I'll remember that! Next time, I'll give the girls chances to pay their shares of the bill!

 

[Moonbear]

I once had a girl who was blatantly using me for a free meal (first date) and order a very expensive meal. Needless to say the date went poorly, so when I was done eating, I got up and went to the bathroom- never to return.

Wow! That must have really been an awful date. I've had bad dates, but never so bad as to feel I needed to sneak out before it was over! I would recommend that anyone else winding up in that situation just take the check, put in their share, then hand it to her to put in her share. If she was expecting you to pay and is offended by that, so what? If it was going that badly anyway, it's not like you'd care if it ruined your chance of a second date.

 

[Moonbear]

I'll remember that! Next time, I'll give the girls chances to pay their shares of the bill!

Yeah, did you really think all women live on just salad, or that we only order that to look like we're watching our weight?

My parents used to tell me about how my mom ate only a hot dog on their first date. She didn't want my father to have to pay for an expensive meal, and since that was back in the day when men were always expected to pay for the first date, she only ordered a hot dog and insisted she was full after that.

 

[Astronuc]

I once had a girl who was blatantly using me for a free meal (first date) and order a very expensive meal. Needless to say the date went poorly, so when I was done eating, I got up and went to the bathroom- never to return.

That must have been an expensive restaurant. Before I'd go to a place like that, I'd try for lunch or picnic, or invite a girl to dinner.

With my wife, we initially met at a free outdoor concert. Her best friend was living with my best friend, and the meeting was quite accidental.
Subsequently, she and I just encountered each other at our friends' apartment, so dinner didn't cost anything. We talked while we helped in the kitchen, so we had a chance to get to know each other before we actually started dating.

We were both undergrads, so we both watched out expenses. We opted to cook for each other rather than go out to dinner.

We more or less lived together (mostly weekends and holidays) and got married after we both graduated. We then went to grad school together.

 

[Zantra]

Wow! That must have really been an awful date. I've had bad dates, but never so bad as to feel I needed to sneak out before it was over! I would recommend that anyone else winding up in that situation just take the check, put in their share, then hand it to her to put in her share. If she was expecting you to pay and is offended by that, so what? If it was going that badly anyway, it's not like you'd care if it ruined your chance of a second date.

No you don't understand. I didn't leave her with the check because the date was bad. That would be bad form. No she made it clear in no uncertain terms that she was just in this for the free meal. I've had other "bad dates" and just paid the bill and left. It was more about her motive.

 

[PrudensOptimus]

Yeah, did you really think all women live on just salad, or that we only order that to look like we're watching our weight?

My parents used to tell me about how my mom ate only a hot dog on their first date. She didn't want my father to have to pay for an expensive meal, and since that was back in the day when men were always expected to pay for the first date, she only ordered a hot dog and insisted she was full after that.

Garden Chef Salad, ones with eggs and some carefully prepared meats, are the best for health and diet :)

A gentleman pays for the bill, just as did your father :D

No you don't understand. I didn't leave her with the check because the date was bad. That would be bad form. No she made it clear in no uncertain terms that she was just in this for the free meal. I've had other "bad dates" and just paid the bill and left. It was more about her motive.

Haha, she must have sat there for hours before leaving, wondering if you passed out on the toilet!

 

[Zantra]

Garden Chef Salad, ones with eggs and some carefully prepared meats, are the best for health and diet :)

A gentleman pays for the bill, just as did your father :D

well unless you also believe that a woman's place is in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant, that statement is a bit antiquated. Women want to be treated as equals. Paying for them makes a statement about a woman's place in society. Therefore, it would be a grave injustice to categorize women by offering to pay for their meals.

Can't have your cake and eat it too

Haha, she must have sat there for hours before leaving, wondering if you passed out on the toilet!

Oh I'm pretty sure she had to call someone to bring some money, because it was an expensive meal. I feel she got what she deserved.

 

[PrudensOptimus]

Are you saying that by not paying fully for their meals, you are treating women equally?

 

[Zantra]

No I'm saying that by not assuming that it's the man's job to pay you're not succumbing to a stereotype that it's the man's job to pay. A lot of women are insulted by a man insisting on paying. And there's also the connotation that if a man pays, the woman owes him something. So paying gives the woman the opportunity to assert her independence and take care of herself

 

[PrudensOptimus]

No I'm saying that by not assuming that it's the man's job to pay you're not succumbing to a stereotype that it's the man's job to pay. A lot of women are insulted by a man insisting on paying. And there's also the connotation that if a man pays, the woman owes him something. So paying gives the woman the opportunity to assert her independence and take care of herself

A treatise courtship is!

 

[PrudensOptimus]

Bump! F

 

[PrudensOptimus]

So... How is everybody doing?

########################################$A little update on my life: Invited a girl to a nice symphony along with 40+ of my friends, Walked back with her and my friends to our dorm, Haven't seen her that much since, about 4 weeks now. Whenever I see her, I greet her. She acts either very shy or avoiding me. Pissing me off ><$##########################################

 

[Evo]

When I first start dating a man, I ALWAYS offer to pay my share of the tab. If he insists on paying the first time, then I insist on paying the next time. Back in the OLD days when women didn't work, or if they did, didn't make much, it was pretty much a given that the man would pay as a sign that he could support the woman.

Women work now and many make more than the men they date. I think it's ridiculous to expect the man to pay if you are working. If he insists on taking you to some place that you can't afford, then you need to let him know, then if he insists on treating, you still need to return the favor with something within your means, perhaps a home cooked meal.

I'd feel like a prostitute if I let the man pay for everything.

 

[DaveC426913]

When I first start dating a man, I ALWAYS offer to pay my share of the tab. If he insists on paying the first time, then I insist on paying the next time.

Yes.

Sexism aside, this type of negotiation is fertile soil for a communicative, cooperative relationship to take root. It doesn't so much matter what the outcome is, so much as how you negotiate it together. You can pick up a lot about a person based on how gracious or expectant they are.

A gentleman offering to pay can be as innocent-significant as "I wish to put effort into this relationship."

 

[rhuthwaite]

I always pay for the whole thing when I start dating a man. Sometimes we share but generally I pay (I don't like splitting costs). After a while though we start alternating who pays.
PrudensOptimus you sound like a real gentleman and deserve better than that girl. I would be annoyed too, she sounds like a ****ing idiot

 

[big man]

haha hang on...hold the phones.

Was it meant to be a date or something? 'cause if it was then it wasn't the brightest ideas to have her tagging along with 40+ friends of yours.

40+ friends going to a symphony? Is that an ordinary night out with close friends? Because if that is an ordinary night out with close friends then all I have to say is "holy ****!".

First of all, was she shy around you before?
If she hasn't been shy around you before then did you notice if she didn't feel apart of the 'group' when you went to the symphony?
Depending on her personality, she might have felt intimidated by 40+ friends...

Just some probable reasons...maybe ;)

But you know you could just ask her out again and then you will find out for sure whether she doesn't like you or not and has been avoiding you for a reason.

 

[PrudensOptimus]

I always pay for the whole thing when I start dating a man. Sometimes we share but generally I pay (I don't like splitting costs). After a while though we start alternating who pays.
PrudensOptimus you sound like a real gentleman and deserve better than that girl. I would be annoyed too, she sounds like a ****ing idiot

40+ friends were sitting in the balcony,

She and I were sitting next to each other on the main floor.

We had a great time, and even she rated it a 20/20 before we bid good night to each other.

And, yes, ordinary night out with friends and colleagues. I am involved in many things on campus.

But somehow, she and another guy went to another symphony a week after ours... And I can tell she's been avoiding me. Sigh.

Sad thing is that she and I work together in student government. We see each other at weekly meetings. And furthermore, I am on the committee that approves/declines fundings for student applications. She submitted one that is pending.

She likes cooking, so I invited her to join my Student Iron Chef team, she told me she'll check her schedule and reply back. Never did. We had the competition a day ago and my team won and proceeds to the finals.

I don't know what else I can do at this moment. I guess love can be magical sometimes, but sometimes magic is just... illusional.

 

[Evo]

We had a great time, and even she rated it a 20/20 before we bid good night to each other.

Do you often get your dates rated?

But somehow, she and another guy went to another symphony a week after ours... And I can tell she's been avoiding me. Sigh.

Not good.

She likes cooking, so I invited her to join my Student Iron Chef team, she told me she'll check her schedule and reply back. Never did.

Really not good.

We had the competition a day ago and my team won and proceeds to the finals.

Congratulations! (Iron Chef is my favorite tv show)

 

[JasonRox]

Thank you.

I once had a girl who was blatantly using me for a free meal (first date) and order a very expensive meal. Needless to say the date went poorly, so when I was done eating, I got up and went to the bathroom- never to return.

What?!

If I were single, I would kind of like that in a way. It's such a challenge, but obviously you don't display the idea that she's a challenge or anything.

Don't fear girls that you think they can overpower you because if you do, then they literally can overpower you. Hence, why you needed to run because that was the only way out.

 

[PrudensOptimus]

It was a rating for the symphony and my organizing of the event, not the date.

 

[ultranet]

maybe you are just over-reacting... give some time for yourself.

 

[Robert Mak]

lol......

 

[mathwonk]

judging by the number of hits on this thread, and the ask a stupid question thread, i should have named my math thread " how to be a mathematician and meet girls, for compleat idiots".